Fighting my way out of the dark Part 5

[joejoe1]

Sandi,

Thanks for the candid feedback/2x4s. I agree with 100% of the advice you provided to me and Holding. Respect is earned, and no one will respect a person that doesn't respect their selves. Keep them coming.

[Accuray]

Lots of good stuff here Holding! I dated a woman who exhibited the behavior you describe -- when they get upset they escalate and push to try to "break you" emotionally because seeing that validates that they are important enough to get upset over.

You were doing the right thing by not tolerating or engaging in that behavior -- she needs to learn to validate herself, to deal with her own issues without needing to break you down to do it.

Agree with everyone else that "tough love time" is overdue where W is concerned.

Acc

[AnotherStander]

Hey Holding! I got busy but I see now that a few days ago you asked about a comment I made, and East's response to it was spot on:

I think what AS is getting at is "don't treat your R talks as a curiosity." How can that possibly make things better for you? His advice was "if you're going to have an R talk, shut up, listen, and validate" and I agree that's good advice.

Exactly what I meant. In the meantime you also got some great advice from Sandi and Zues, especially Zues's drug addict analogy, that's brilliant! Great reminder that you are dealing with someone that cannot be reasoned with through logic, and that her situation is only going to be resolved by her having an awakening of some sort. And nothing you say or do will get her there, it's a journey she must make on her own. If you Google a definition for "tough love" one of the returns is "requiring them to take responsibility for their actions". That's advice that is given for dealing with addicts of every stripe and color, and sometimes it's what is required for dealing with a WAW as well.

That said, I still think validation is appropriate when the opportunity arises. Validation is simply getting someone to talk about their feelings and then offering support and understanding of those feelings, not the CAUSE of the feelings. It's not apologizing, or negotiating, or agreeing or anything of the sort. I just mention that because some people may see East's and my advice as conflicting with Sandi's and Zues's advice. But you can validate a drug addict's feelings without agreeing with what they are doing and the same goes for a WAS.

[Holding]

I've been quiet in my own thread lately, so I thought I'd pop in with a brief update.

I've been thinking about things a lot lately, especially whether the MR is worth saving. I've been digging into more NGS content (forums, podcasts). I'm at a point in life where I want to grow in new ways. I've given this MR my all, and there's nothing left to give. I've come to realize this M is not a healthy place for me to be. STBXW is not a person I can continue this journey with. I need to move on with my life.

I've had to make a big decision with my L (maybe I can talk about it later, but I don't feel comfortable for now). This is pretty much the point of no return for the MR.

I'm back to strict NC with STBXW, except for kids and finances. I'm going to shut down any R talks as soon as they start. I need y'all to be my accountability buddies - let me know if you see me screwing up!

This past weekend I drove past a place we used to rent (I happened to be driving by, it's not something I sought out). This triggered a very cathartic screaming session driving on the freeway. In fact, I screamed so loud that I felt lightheaded afterwards. I need to watch that.

I'll continue to GAL: meeting with friends, doing things solo, putting myself out there, etc. I'm thinking about taking piano lessons - it's something I've always wished I could do. I'll be taking S14 on a youth hunting program in a few weeks. He's been with STBXW on one of these before, but this is my first time taking him, and I hope we can bond a bit b/c our R has felt strained lately.

Something I came across in the NGS literature is the concept of a special woman being the icing on my cake. It's my job to build an awesome life by myself - that's the cake. A female partner should only ever be the icing. If I lose that icing, I still have the cake. I see how in my M I tried to make my STBXW the cake itself.

Thanks to Acc, Sandi, J9, East, Zues, JoeJoe, and AS for helping me navigate these waters.

(Yes, that was brief )

[doodler]

I need y'all to be my accountability buddies - let me know if you see me screwing up!

Holding,

I've got to give you a 2x4. You're using unhealthy foods (cake and icing) for your metaphors. You should use healthier foods in your metaphors such as fruits, vegetables, nuts (be careful with that one) and lean meats.

[joejoe1]

Holding,

You are doing good. You are reflecting on your situation and yourself, also you M. It's a hard thing to do. And it's a hard choice to come to, to be done with your W and M. If you really feel that way, nothing is wrong with that. It sounds like no R is what you want. To me it seems like your choice is coming from a place of strength and not weakness.

If you truly believe you gave all you had to give, then moving forward with your life is the right direction to go.

Keep growing my friend.

[Lovelyp]

So great to hear the update Holding. Wishing you all the best in your new decision to move on. It feel like you are at peace and happy on your own.

[AnotherStander]

First of all, don't listen to Doodler. Cake is one of the food groups, I just looked it up earlier today to make sure.

I've been thinking about things a lot lately, especially whether the MR is worth saving.

Well that's a good sign, you're coming out of the fog. But here's the thing- you can't save your M, it's gone, it's history. And so is the W you knew. She's gone, replaced by this person you barely recognize. So here's the question you really need to ask yourself- "do I want a new R and maybe M with this new person that I barely know?" That was a very bitter pill for me to swallow. I kept thinking my old W was in there somewhere and would come back. Maybe she will some day, but I'm 5 years post BD and the person she is now only bears a passing resemblance to the person I was with for 25 years. And this new person? I have no attraction to her and no interest in her. I would not marry this woman in a million years. Had she been like this 25 years ago I never would have given her a second look. I think all LBSs eventually come out of the fog and come to a similar realization.

I'm back to strict NC with STBXW, except for kids and finances. I'm going to shut down any R talks as soon as they start.

Good!

This past weekend I drove past a place we used to rent (I happened to be driving by, it's not something I sought out). This triggered a very cathartic screaming session driving on the freeway. In fact, I screamed so loud that I felt lightheaded afterwards. I need to watch that.

Nothing wrong with that. Sometimes you've just got to vent the poison out. Well, except you don't want to pass out and crash

Something I came across in the NGS literature is the concept of a special woman being the icing on my cake. It's my job to build an awesome life by myself - that's the cake. A female partner should only ever be the icing. If I lose that icing, I still have the cake. I see how in my M I tried to make my STBXW the cake itself.

Perfect. Now you're seeing who has the power in your life

[sandi2]

((Hugs))

[Holding]

I just can't get a peaceful weekend.

We had a big blow up yesterday. Let's just forget that this is a DB forum, because this probably won't be a great example on DB'ing or how to save your M. My M is dead.

The monthly financial arrangements have always been hard for us, because STBXW insists on getting her way. For November, I told her I wouldn't be helping her pay for any late charges that she ran up in October - there were about 4 credit cards and utilities that she paid late. She got really upset and said, well then, she wouldn't be paying the full amount on these accounts, she'd just be paying the full amount minus the late fee, and our credit would just have to suffer for it. I didn't react and she walked off. This was in front of S10, and when she walked off he dryly said "that was harsh." (I love that little dude)

This whole conversation actually took place outside. STBXW delivered her monologue from the front porch while S10 and I were in the front yard yard putting up the Halloween decorations outside. Getting ready for Halloween was actually pretty emotional for me and S10, realizing this may be the last year we do it at our home.

Anyway, when we were done with the decorations, I just had to get out of the house for a few hours to cool off after STBXW's decision on financial sabotage.

I got back a few hours later and tried to help S10 carve his pumpkin. We were sitting on the couch looking at pictures of "scary pumpkin faces" for inspiration. Then STBXW came in the room and started pushing the financial discussion again. I said I wouldn't be helping with the late fees, it was her responsibility to pay them on time, and now she has to pay the fees herself. I said that was all I had to say about it. I went back to looking at my tablet with S10.

She kept pushing a discussion. S10 had gotten ear protectors from somewhere (the big kind you wear when shooting), and was sitting on the sofa wearing them. She started talking about how the finances were unfair to her (they are not), and I defended myself against her accusations. After a few minutes, S10 quietly left with his laptop and ear protectors. I let fly with "You're a real class act for having this argument in front of our son."

She blamed me again for preventing her from moving out. I showed her where the door was and invited her to leave. She then asked why I wasn't the one to move out. I said since she wanted this D, she should be the one to leave. She said I was as much to blame for the death of the M as she was. I told her I had issues and things to account for, but they were not 50%. She got really mad that I refused to accept 50% and wanted to know how I could say that. I told her I wasn't going to help her beat the dead horse of the M any more. I asked if she would leave me and S10 in peace so that we could carve a pumpkin. She said she wouldn't, she wanted to know how I could possibly claim I didn't own 50% of the issues. So I went in my room and locked the door. I could hear her yell from the other room "So you're just going to run off and not talk to me, like you did for our whole M."

After a minute she knocked on the door to say she was leaving the room so S10 and I could carve his pumpkin. He came to the door and asked me if I could help him, so I went out. I apologized to him for having to hear all that. We finished the pumpkin and it came out great!

My next hurdle is Halloween itself. STBXW had agreed to give me separate time to trick or treat with S10 by myself (I really don't feel comfortable going with her extended family), so let's see if she still honors that. And then the next day she's having a knee operation that will leave her laid up in bed for a few days. MIL will be in the house to help care for her - she never asked me, not that I'm sure what kind of help I could be in this environment. I have nothing against her family, but I'm not sure what she's been telling them about me, and MIL might try to accuse me of something.

I emailed my L and told her to please move on things. I can't do this in house S any more. It's absolute hell. I want to be finished with this by Christmas so I can celebrate it as a new beginning in my life.

And BTW, my anniversary is next week. I expect it'll go unmentioned.