Are you questioning your own faith and whether a lack of religion has played a role in where you are with your marriage?
Full disclosure, I'm an agnostic. However, I don't believe religion has anything to do with it. I would be in a relationship with an atheist or a theist as long as they did not pressure me to share their beliefs (my H is an atheist who despises religion but is currently messing around with a born again, go figure on both their parts--his attacks on religion were a very prominent part of his once active FB profile and therefore it isn't a question of her not knowing).
I think with anything you have to take the information in and use the parts that are helpful to you. It's great that a program like that exists. It is unfortunate that both that and Divorce Care have a religious bend. I probably will never attend either because of that.
In a very different place from you but can understand your struggles. I recently talked to an old friend who went through his own MLC. He never left home. He is back to his old self and is connected to his work and his children again. But, he has no sense of connection to his wife. I think it will come in time.
This may not make you feel great, but your struggles have been very helpful to me. I feel much better about the loss of my marriage knowing that even if he did "snap out of it" and come back, that I would still be questioning us for a long time. Given his treatment of me to date, all of this makes it easier to let go and focus on living my own life.
Don't kick yourself about the religion. You don't need it to be successful. Listen to your own moral compass and let that steer you through this difficult time.
Me: 52 Her: 48 2D 26 & 16 M: 25 years (together 30) EA/discovered by accident Valentines day 2016 Admitted SOME physical but no IC. We know that's a lie. Status - tryin to R
J9, oh yes, he knows. One of my character flaws (and strengths at times) is that I wear my heart on my sleeve. I have been less interested in the Retrouvaille program and doing the daily HW and I have not been affectionate or planned quality time in awhile. There have also been things that I am not happy about so I have pulled back lately. And I tell him. I have also told him all along there are no guarantees.
I don't think my changing is why I haven't accepted this, but more so that I cannot change my core values and accept it. I have changed in other ways; this sitch has changed my perspective on my life in general. Accepting and forgiving goes against every fiber of my being, and to feel love/intimacy/trust with someone that can betray me in the worst way possible, is a place I just cannot get to. Mind over heart and concrete choices over emotions are no easy feat!
I know that I never will simply move past this. It has to be hard work and processed and it will always be there. On the outside, H has done all the things one could hope for and he truly has changed. He is a great man and partner, and he is a great dad. He is hardworking, loyal, kind, funny, and an amazing lover. He has looked at himself and is trying to change the NG traits and have stronger boundaries with people. He is not perfect tho, and there are things that bother me about him, and there are times that I question if we are compatible. That might be with anyone tho.
Overall tho, yes, it is the A piece for me that is the most difficult to overcome. Sadly, I think that will be the final deal breaker if we go towards D. I just really don't (and didn't) want that to be the reason, however it is what it keeps coming down to in my mind. We all have to decide what we can accept and forgive and I think we are all different. DB is about saving ourselves and hoping they come back. If and when they do come back, the perspective can easily change and it will.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Sorry, let me be clear, I am not questioning my faith, not at all! I am not kicking myself about religion--I know where I stand (currently) and I am fine with it. What I am saying is that I do not agree with the presenters in Retrouvaille that couples need to go to church together and pray together to save their M. Not at all! In fact, being told that left a sour taste in my mouth about the program in general. I did not complete the post session because of it. I know many happy and strong couples that are not Christians. I also have a lot of diversity in my friends/neighbors/coworkers, and I do not think the religious folks have a stronger moral compass. Some of my most honest, loyal and generous friends are the most non-religious.
I am very troubled when religious groups offer aid to vulnerable populations in exchange for indoctrination. I actually see that type if recruitment as a gross abuse of power. It reminds me of a service project I participated in for undergrad and we helped out serving food to the homeless at a church: the meal came with more than food and the church used that time to evangelize and required worship in exchange for the meal. So I am not here to have a debate about that, but I think that people should be of their own free will and choose to participate in religion or not. I can say with 100% certainty that all the prayer in the world is not what is going to save my M.
Thanks for sharing tho. I am glad my sitch is helpful to someone. I wish I could give people more hope about piecing after their H leaves them for their friend for almost a year, but I just can't. Maybe one day. We will see :-)
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
If my W comes back learning of the A would be the hardest for me as well.....and if you have done the work you realize how valuable we all are as individuals.
Btw......I love how you write and express yourself.
Blu, I really appreciate your perspective. I come back to your thread just to get a glimpse into piecing and it seems so bloody hard.
I feel that the fundamental act of betrayal is such a hard beast to wrangle. How do you forgive someone, who you thought had your back and such deep trust, when they go and blow everything up for stuff that isn't separation worthy?
I know I am so early in my sitch, but the betrayal is something I don't know I would be able to work through or process it to come to a place of acceptance - especially when there were other ways of dealing with the MR.
Hanging on to a little bit of hope for recon is helpful, but if and when they come back, it's like picking up their ruins and trying to attach it back. Sometimes it sounds so hopeless and that the LBS may be better off just DBing for themselves and moving on.
I feel that I got hurt so deeply that the wound may just never heal enough for me to piece.
I get what your saying. Especially knowing how the WS talked bad about you and showed no remorse. That is something I know will be tough for me. W bragged about cheating with her friend as if she had earned a badge of honor. It was so bad that her best friend kicked her to the curb. And decided to tell me everything.
Thanks, Maika, I appreciate you saying that. Piecing and forgiving betrayal has been my biggest obstacle, no doubt! There certainly isn't a one size fits all approach either. There are no 37 rules for this!
We each come with our own complicated psychology, history, traumas, personalities, goals, etc. Even knowing that, I can't help but search for some formula or thing that I can do to make this work. It doesn't. I have so many darn feelings that keep getting in the way of my choices. All I can do is get up each day, try to be a good person, think about my goals, and work a little harder than I did the day before.
Sometimes it sounds so hopeless and that the LBS may be better off just DBing for themselves and moving on. Here is the thing tho and this is the point I want to make; you are ALWAYS better off DBing for yourself regardless of the outcome. Always. DB is for you and you only. It is hard for a lot of people here to accept that because this is a M saving site. Those of us that have been at this for more than a couple months or years, get it.
You can't control another person, manipulate them, or force them back into the M. Even if you did "trick" them back, it would not be a fulfilling or healthy relationship. We can, however, absolutely control ourselves and the type of person we want to be. Let's face it, we can post here all day long and convince the others that our S is in MLC, an alien, LIMERANCE, in a fog, etc, etc, etc. I say to that, "so what?" What difference does that make? Their perspective is still their perspective, and they felt something about us or the M was worth leaving. And whether we agree with their opinion or not, they still left. Focusing on them and their issues, will not bring them back
So all we are left to do is look at our part and inside of ourselves so we can understand why. Did we go wrong? If so, where did we go wrong and how can we do better? Then we can use what we find to help us better ourselves. We can also come to the realization that while they may not have appreciated those characteristics about us, we still do. There are thing about myself that I like that my H doesn't. And, someone else very well may like those things about us too. Maybe we learn that our S was right to leave? .... So if you can become a better person, and they are still a fool that doesn't want you, then you have in essence succeeded and you can still feel good about yourself.
Either way, we are the ones that want to save the M, we can only control our side of the street, so that's all we CAN do. There is only one way to win at this, and I don't think winning means getting them back. I have mine back and I am still running this race ...
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Yeh I totally get what you're saying about DBing for yourself and only being able to control your side of the street. I am definitely doing it for myself at this point and recognizing that I have to figure out my own happiness that is not attached to the M. I am slowly figuring that out and as you said, we all bring our histories, traumas, psychologies etc and this is the chance to be critical about all of that and see how much of it has played a role in your life and how you have behaved or responded to life situations.
For me, that is unpacking a lot of stuff that I just refused to deal with. So, DBing in that sense is having a twofold effect - I am actually able to deal with decades worth of garbage that basically destroyed the core of my being, and also becoming the person that I was before that.
I am really looking forward to bringing myself back and I remember that my authentic self was able to flourish because I was happy with myself. I am working on it.
