Here's my situation: My W and I have been married almost 4 years.
Root of the issue was lack of physical/emotional intimacy. I didn't realize how unhappy/unmet/unseen my wife felt. I knew she was unhappy, but thought it was issues in her family, her lack of job/vocational fulfillment. I was stressed by $ and work.
We were poor. When engaged, I was in grad school, she was volunteering with AmeriCorps. Lived off food stamps for a while. Engaged for 1+ yr before wedding. Lived in house with friends for 1+ yr. before and after wedding. My wife reached out with her unhappiness, but I interpreted it as a rejection of me/our relationship. She brought up lack of sexual fulfillment. I interpreted it as my own inadequacy.
After months of work/reflection following BD, I have realized my W was reaching out with unhappiness many times. She then used her job, friendships, our dogs to fill the void. I felt ignored, pushed away; didn't realize how unhappy she was in R, how unmet emotionally/physically.
Last year we moved to NY from CA for her grad school. We knew no one where we moved. Big adjustment and we lived in a hotel for 3 mos. with our dog, all our stuff in storage while we waited for house to close. Her grad program is very intense and very stressful, long hours, lots of work. My new job was also demanding and stressful. She made friends through grad school. I made fewer friends. Life was crummy, but we knew it would get better. We move into house, get another dog.
On regular basis, she studies late into night, sleeps on couch, spends evenings at other friends houses studying. Though I felt the stress of the situation on our relationship, I misread signs of stress of grad school for actual signs of broken relationship, blossoming EA.
Last winter, BD: She is unhappy in marriage: says she never wanted to be married. Went along with it to make her parents, family, my family happy. Didn't want to let anyone down. Takes a few mos. for the rest of it to materialize.
I suspected EA with one of her school friends. Later found evidence I was right. Also PA. The affair partner was actually OW (other woman). This all threw me for a loop. Faced with the BD of EA/PA and question of my W's sexuality, I didn't know how to react.
This left me in a state of paralysis for a few months trying to read the tea leaves when I should have acted immediately. This is how I interpret it all now: I neglected her (I admit a porn addiction I turned to when she worked nights, I felt lonely) emotionally and physically. She may be bisexual, fluid, however you want to define. I followed some groups with closet-lesbian wife, but it didn't quite fit. I think she filled the void with an EA and PA that met her and made her happy. She has said as much, but also admits to struggling with doubts. She has always dated men prior to me. One fling with a woman, it didn't meet her.
Other complexity is that she feels sick when thinking of returning to sexual intimacy with me. In order to repair our relationship, she said she did things she regrets and felt used by me, not wanted/needed/seen or known physically. She felt like I just used her. I will be first to admit my lack of sexual experience and naivete. I didn't pleasure her orally because I really didn't know how important it was. She brought it up a few times but then when I tried to respond, she said it wasn't right and I felt shut down and inadequate. Felt like I couldn't return there. I have realized all this in the mos. of working on me, but when I tried to bring this up, she still had so much resentment/anger, didn't want to hear it.
In the end, I tell her I won't tolerate OW. She chooses her or me
2nd part of grad school is 6 week rotations. She has spent every other one away (other state, etc.). I have worked on 180, GAL since last summer-though as she is away a lot she does not always see this. It has been a long journey and I have made many good friendships, worked on self. I am not yet the man I want to be, but getting there. It is hard to do with the stress and pain of broken relationship.
Fast forward to 10 weeks ago, just prior to last 6 week rotation away, W moves out. I begin NC. She is in middle of wilderness during this rotation, so no cell contact. Her birthday passes, I don't send a card, note, etc. She returns, I maintain NC. She comes home, wonders if I forgot her birthday, if I even care. I tell her I sent good thoughts her way, but didn't send a card. She didn't read the last one I sent (weeks earlier-when I tried 180 of daily/weekly notes/cards that didn't seem to help).
I have not told my parents, family or friends outside of 2. She has told almost all of her friends (not our mutual, family, parents) how unhappy she is. Her parents/family are very supportive of me and really pushed her to work on marriage. That pressure has been really painful for her. She often talks of how guilty & hopeless she feels, even has talked about contemplating suicide. I tried to be supportive (listen when she wanted to talk about relationship, pain, etc.), especially with her questions of sexuality, last winter/summer. I encouraged her to find IC. She did. (we tried MC for a few sessions last year, but ended after agreeing we had different goals).
I have managed to keep the separation on the down low. I have not told my parents, just say she is busy. They constantly ask for her. She missed last holidays to be with her family-again, was able to somewhat Obviously, it is evident to outsiders our relationship is under a lot of stress and not healthy. I am just trying to keep the return path open. It is hard though. I don't really want to talk about it with family/friends, and of course they ask about her/relationship, etc. I try to be vague and change subject.
She wants to me to tell them and friends. Says I am acting like everything is ok, when it is not. Says she feels guilty for failing her family, my family, me. Says she is sorry for letting me down, being this way.
Over weekend, I was out at a athletic competition with friends. She was there and saw me, texted that a friend in the group had invited her to sit with us, but she didn't feel comfortable because I "keep up the act," still wear my ring, etc.
We have 2 dogs. Since beginning NC, I have not reached out to her, keep responses brief, end conversations first. It is hard because she will want to talk about marriage (things she was unhappy with, how I didn't see her, etc.) I try to show her I am listening, but then return to subject and end conversation. Last night I did reach out for first time to ask that she return dogs (we have alternated care since her return-think joint custody of kids?). She called me and wanted to talk about our vows-why I didn't want to write them and instead use standard vows (married in Catholic Church). I told her my reasoning (I liked the rich history of tradition) and redirected to the dogs, we made a compromise and I ended call.
She has repeatedly threatened D and getting papers, etc. but I have not seen any movement. She also will bring up wanting to talk to "make plans" and "make decisions for future"
I think I am doing the right thing and on the right path. I am doing 180, GAL, working out, eating healthy, working on my porn addiction, making/building/maintaining friendships. I struggle with reaching out to old friends who know us both, talking with family, dealing with pain (detaching) of her absence. It is hard to maintain this balance of GAL, detaching while still keeping path of return open.
Thanks for reading if you got this far.
Any advice, guidance?
How do I respond when she wants to turn conversation to marriage issues?
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
How do I respond when she wants to turn conversation to marriage issues?
Do I tell my parents/family?
Hello trainer,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
I would hold off on telling your family at this point. However there are things that could work and make a difference. I suggest you speak to a DB coach, as they are experts in looking at what has happened to bring you to this point in your relationship and what is the best way to interact with her, so that you are most likely to bring her closer and not push her any further away. Your coach's expertise will help you come up with a very specific plan (that may be counter intuitive to what you feel like saying and doing) on how to best turn things around.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
Re-reading the thread on going dark. I'd like some input.
After initiating NC, W will text me every so often. I have been pretty short, responding to her questions-but not asking personal questions in return. She stopped by early last week after a weekend with her family. I was pretty short. Not angry, just didn't display much emotion, or ask about the weekend. She was upset that I wasn't more interested or emotive. I told her I was trying to give her space. She later texted me this:
"I guess we never established what space meant. I appreciate you and respect that you want to give me space. Part of me still wants to connect and support you but you have to tell me if you don't want that. It's irrelevant - but is there any love even? I feel like you speak to me like I'm dead.
I'm struggling (my name) and I'm so sorry, so sorry for letting you down and being this way. I feel like I have failed you and my family and yours and I can't find purpose in living anymore.
Just in the way you talk to me - you seem so distant, and non-challant."
I didn't know how to respond so I didn't text anything back. Again, trying to be distant, by maybe too distant? Later she sent another text asking how I was doing and apologized for being upset. I told her I hoped she was feeling better.
I'm trying to maintain NC and generally detach, but want to make sure I don't make mistakes by being too aloof. She hasn't said anything more serious than above about MR, so I figure I need to stay on the path.
She dropped the dogs off this morning, let them in and fed them while I was upstairs getting ready for work and then left. We later texted a bit and talked briefly about the pups, but nothing significant.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Sometimes what works for one does not work for another. I tried to detach and go NC but it backfired.....badly. it was a major setback. I detached some, but the NC is out the window. She texts me first usually. I answer like I normally would. I don't try to initiate conversation over text, I wait for in person for that.
I only say this because everything isn't a one size fits all.
The only time we have talked the last 2 weeks is about the dogs. If I have them, she will text asking how they are and that she will pick them up from doggy daycare, or if she has them and is going to drop them off-to make sure I can pick them up.
I'm going to be out of town this weekend, so I asked if she could watch them over the weekend.
She responds in a lengthy text message:
"Hey [me] - was thinking about you and hope school is going well for you [I teach]. I have no interest in not being a friend and support in your life if that is something that is possible. I care for you and always will - I simply can't live the life I was living with you - it's not me. I'm happy to watch them. Is it [friend's] Bach?"
Then
"You know this - I'm sexual and spontaneous and touchy and emotional and to find myself alone in those things was just not whole."
We have talked about this many times over and I'm practicing detaching so I respond in text: "Ok-I hear that. Thank you for watching them"
She calls a few times while I'm in the shower and asks why we can't talk. I respond with why I was away from my phone and that I don't have a lot of time to talk. She calls back and we talk for a bit-she wants to talk about my feelings-am I upset?, angry?, resentful?, and asks about the weekend-prying for details (where am I going? When am I coming back?) when I'm not upfront with them, but then upset that I didn't just provide them in the first place without her asking. I find this really ironic-she has not been up front about anything the last 16 months. I tell her I have to go and end the call.
So, how am I going? I'm trying to detach, create distance. I don't know how else to respond when all she wants to talk about are my feelings. She is really into emotional vulnerability and intimacy. I was reading the pursuit and distance thread in cadet's first response, specifically Cadets posting. I think she really fits the model of the Emotional Pursuer.
What do I do next? I think I maintain the detachment. How do I respond to her questions about my feelings? I feel like that converation has just taken us in circles when we have talked about that in the past...
Update: I was away at a Bachelor's party over the weekend, my wife was pretty curious about the details (its a mutual friend) before I left-how long would I be gone, etc. I tried to keep it pretty vague.
One of our dog needed stitches due to an accident this weekend, so we ended up text over the last few days about that. She has sent some nice texts thanking me for taking care of him and made some other nice comments.
She also wanted to know about my weekend plans. I gave her a short run down and she asked if I have time- "we need to talk please. I'd appreciate it"
I assume this will be the standard conversation we have been having. I'm not passionate enough. She's sexual, spontaneous, etc. We need to move forward, make plans. She feels uncomfortable that I haven't told friends, family, etc.
I need advice:
Do I set up a time to talk? If so, what setting: I was thinking, maybe a walk-get us some forward momentum outside. I feel like conversations inside in the living room, kitchen always spiral and we end up rehashing the same lines: She says the above. I say ok, I hear you, I want you to be happy, you should do what makes you happy, get a D if that will make you happy.
How can I steer conversation in a more positive direction?
Or, do I vaguely avoid the conversation altogether? I do have a busy weekend planned: meetings, workout, yard work, helping a friend move, church, workout, yoga, going on a hike...
I'm maintaining the GAL and detachment path. I feel like I'm seeing some positive developments, but I know it is way too early and these are only words/not actions. How can I keep on this path?
From what you've written, it sounds like you are doing everything right... 180, GAL, NC, detaching,etc.
Originally Posted By: trainer
I assume this will be the standard conversation we have been having. I'm not passionate enough. She's sexual, spontaneous, etc........... She says the above. I say ok, I hear you, I want you to be happy,
Judging from what you've said, though, it sounds to me like "OK, I hear you, I want you to be happy", may not be the right response. Validate the crap out of what she's saying, and ask directly for her to tell you specifically what she needs from you. If it is acceptable to you, then agree to put forth effort along those lines, and ask her to guide you. Obviously, DO NOT get defensive or angry when she tries to guide you (and tell you "you're doing it wrong").
That's my $ .02 anyway....
M:23 T:26 Me:53, Wife: 60 S:18 D:16 filed 7/16 W moved out 4/28/17
Jim1234: Thanks for the advice. You're right, I need to validate how she feels. She really likes to talk things out. I like the idea about asking for what she needs and guidance in that direci
Any suggestions for how to respond if she says she feels awkward and uncomfortable around friends/family because they don't know and she wants me to tell them? That is something she has said in the past. While I have tried to validate her feelings of discomfort, I feel that sharing this openly will only cause more problems, and close off a return to a healthier marriage.
I don't know if this is coming from a place of her guilt, a desire to close off this return path, or something else.
