WAW and the Big D

[OwnIt]

Bdog, I'm sorry for your pain. I imagine a lot of this is for show. What kind of mother would not try for as much custody as she can have. She is likely doing this to save face with others. Continue to document and know that the laws are far more modern now and know that children need time with both parents. Also, the custody one gets and the custody one exercises are two different things. Keep that in mind from what you have already experienced.

[Bdog37]

Thank you OwnIt, I truly appreciate it! Coming from a lawyer that was very encouraging and yes, it is all just to save face in front of family and friends.

If she plans to go for full custody then I just see this turning into a long drawn out and expensive court battle. I do not believe that is what is in the best interest for our children. They deserve equal time with both of us so hopefully, if there is justice in this world, then courts here will agree.

[Thornton]

I can't imagine her lawyer advising her to go for full custody when there is already a routine in place.

Judges hate to go against the routine. If you and W have a system that seems to work, more than likely, the judge will want to keep it that way.

Let her spew and talk sh!t about you as much as she wants. You are the stable one, keep showing that to your kids. They are watching.

[Bdog37]

Hey Thornton,

Well right now I have the girls everyday except for 2 nights a week. What I believe happened was the MIL asked why she wasn't getting them more or why isn't she spending more time with them. Her only excuse was to blame it on me which is infuriating to hear... Especially considering that is so not the case!!

She continues to give up her time with them to be with the OM. Last night was another prime example. It was her scheduled time with the girls and she asked me to keep them. Of course I agreed and have agreed to all her days she continually asks for me to keep them.

Unfortunately, I hope the judge sees this and denies her any right to full custody. If anything, I should be granted full custody but I never thought I would legally have to go for it. I have always just believed that shared custody is in the best interest of our kids.

However, she continues to live a teenagers life full of partying and expects me to just roll over when she finally decides she wants to be a mother again?? She has every right to do what she wants on her own time, I could care less, but after 6 months of me being the sole parent in our children's lives she wants to try and take that from me....why?

She misses out on school activities for them, Girl Scouts for my oldest, play dates and birthdays...it just keeps going on and on. The oldest just asked me why mommy wasn't there at her school field trip the other day. I am sick and tired of making excuses for her, but I still just replied that she couldn't make it because I feel that I still need to shield them from the truth. That day she posted on FB a pic of her and OM "riding around the old neighborhood"....that's what was more important.

I am just so heartbroken to hear she wants to go for full custody. It is her taking away the last thing in this world that means anything to me and this woman has already taken enough. I know the laws for father's have gotten better, but it is still up to a judge in the long run. If a judge right now ruled against me and granted her full custody... I would be destroyed. I can't even think about it without tearing up.

[Tryin2figuritout]

Bdog,

That's terrible that she's pushing for full custody. Keep record of what the current schedule is because that demonstrates your commitment to your kids. It would probably suit you well to run a tally week by week of days with you vs your wife.

It's amazing what a different world the WAS can be in during this. I hope you have a great weekend.

All the best.

[25yearsmlc]

Thank you OwnIt, I truly appreciate it! Coming from a lawyer that was very encouraging and yes, it is all just to save face in front of family and friends.

total agreement with Own.


If she plans to go for full custody then I just see this turning into a long drawn out and expensive court battle.


um, I don't think so. You have documentation of her lack of involvement (fb posts too) and when her L shows that to her, (or if he's a bill churner, then YOUR L can depose her and ask those questions in a deposition and no one wants to have that confirmed in public). Maybe she wants child support?? Irrelevant.

I don't believe she'd want there to be a public hearing to disclose all that. Also tbh, I don't think she even wants full custody. Though She may not even realize that.She knows what sounds good...

Put it this way, IF she does want full custody she is doing the exact opposite of what a lawyer would advise her to do.

If it weren't so sad, it'd be laughable.

I do not believe that is what is in the best interest for our children. They deserve equal time with both of us so hopefully, if there is justice in this world, then courts here will agree.

Why equal? Why not you getting full custody with visititation for her? OR you getting physical custody (but still joint, which saves her the embarrassment and which courts prefer anyhow) until such a time as she's "able" to have them half time?

She may well not be fully aware of her behavior (not "crazy" but not really with it).

FWIW, many years ago in h's first "Alaskan ordeal", I asked him if he was really willing to take the chance on losing his family all for a "great job opportunity" (adventure)

and he said something like "guess I am willing". I was shocked.

When I mentioned that 2 years later, he had no recall. In fact, he went further, stating that he'd "never say something like that"...and I bet you that he'd pass a polygraph.

However, I am 100% POSITIVE he said that - b/c I can tell you where I was when I asked and when he replied, etc. It's freeze framed in my mind.

Point is, they don't necessarily know what they are saying or how it looks (your w sure doesn't) nor do they all recall it later. Nor do they seem to have a sense of what's forseeable down the road, like harmed r's.

Lacking self awareness is the hallmark of many diagnoses. MLC, narcissist, unresolved childhood issues and blah blah blah.

NOT SURE IT MATTERS why....if they lack it, they lack it. Which makes them emotionally dangerous for now.

Years ago, I practiced criminal defense and a lot of my clients were people who made bad choices, but given their backgrounds, you could see why, or they made horrible choices in the heat of the moment, etc.

BUT SOME were just unrelatable. They had chronic anger management issues they refused to address and or they did really bad things to innocent people...sometimes with planning.

I don't mean clients with bad childhoods, but people who had no explainable reason for their horrible actions.

Of those^^, most showed little or no remorse. More like "I did not do it or, well I 'had to', Or you'd do the same if you were me' Or I was under stress, Or lots of people do worse, & doesn't make me a bad person", ETC

So none of them said "well I'm an a$$hole or "I am very selfish" or "chose to be a bad person." NONE OF THEM SAID THAT...

they all rationalized heinous behavior, (with the few mentally ill exceptions, who wanted help).

I was sort of morbidly fascinated with those^^ people but eventually I came to believe I would never truly "get" them. They were so different than my experience or my circles, that I stopped trying to understand them.

I tried to explain how a jury would view them, but 3/4 of the time, they really believed the jury would understand why they had no choice, why they were "right"...and usually, there was a total inability to grasp societal views...so, fwiw, I see similarities in some of the WAS's here.

Deal with what you're facing, which is an absentee mom.

I know this hurts. But gosh, from where I sit, you are luckier than most men.

Instead of a woman trying to block or hinder your time with the girls, she's shoving it down your throat, publicly announcing her absences (not exactly "working to cure cancer, sure miss my kids")

it hurts and it's very scary but you are ahead in this. I think It'll be a gross bump in the road but I truly really believe you'll prevail.

Make sense?

((( )))

[Zues126]

Bdog, sorry you're going through this.

When I was faced with custody negotiations there were two separate challenges. One physical, one mental. The physical was the very real risks that my time with my children would be limited. The mental was the total shock that came from the realization that in our court system decisions get made routinely that can remove your children from your life.

This was a horrifying revelation. I mean, you see half of the country living in split homes and you know that not everyone came to a unanimous agreement on how to raise the children, so you know somehow not everyone is happy. But until you are in the middle of it you don't really understand what's at stake.

The single most memorable event in my entire life was when I was told by my L that I had to put together a 20 minute presentation that I was to share with social services. It was to encompass how our family formed, where we were today, my current relationship with the children, what I wanted for custody, and why I thought it would be best for the children. At this time XW wanted full custody with me getting every other weekend and additional time in the summer. After TWO YEARS of seeing my children grow up through these 'visitation' hours I knew this wasn't enough. There is a monumental difference between saying hi to your kids and hearing about their lives versus living it with them.

I was angrier than I had ever been before. It wasn't a quick rage like anger. It was a burning anger that didn't go away. I felt like I was on trial for a crime I didn't commit, that I could be sentenced to 15 years where I would be put to work to pay child support for children I could only see during appropriate visitation. I'm on the record of saying this is the most inhumane part of our modern society since the abolishment of slavery. We look back at 150 years ago and shudder that families could be torn apart and people collared and denied the right to live their lives with their children. Well, I truly believe that in 100 years from now it won't work the way it does today and that future generations will be absolutely appalled at the divorce culture we established and destruction of families it caused.

This was such a big moment in my life I want to share with you how I prepared. My execution in the meeting went EXACTLY as I lay it out here:

I went to a drugstore and got two little plastic scrap books that hold 36 photos...then I printed out duplicate copies of 36 pictures of my kids, and put them in a nice order.

During my presentation I am going to start by skimming through the years we were together very, very quickly. Then I'm going to talk about BD and the days since. What I've done as a man. IC, support group, journaling, and reconnecting with my family. Then I'm going to talk about what I've done as a dad. Working hard to support them in both households, getting a different job that allows me more flexibility to make room for increased time with them. Then I'm going to give them a glimpse of what we've done together by going through the scrap book. Science museums, trips to the zoo and festivals, hikes around lakes, board games, reading books, birthday parties, trick or treating...then I'm going to talk about what's not in the pictures, homework, violin lessons, getting them to eat new foods, and so on. How my son doesn't seem like he's got behavioral issues when he's with me, and that I know he feels safe and at home when we're together. How my daughter tells me when we're together it's like the world becomes full of magic and it's like our special universe to just be together.

Then I'm going to talk about what's missing from the pictures. Pictures of visiting my mom in IL because we don't have time to make that trip and we've never been out of state together. Pictures of them playing with neighbor children because they don't know our neighbors because they don't have time and feel they need to make every minute with their dad count. Day to day life. The quiet time where they do their own thing knowing dad is in the room next door. I'll talk about how all my children constantly tell me they miss me and wish they could have more time with me. How when they get in the car on a Tuesday visit after not seeing them for 6 days it's so hard because we've become disconnected, and missed so much life together, and by the time the bond is reestablished our three hours are up and it's time for bed and school and I will see them again on the weekend. And that I hurt being apart for so long, and while this is about the children's pain and not mine, I know that they are hurting too.

Then I'll tell them what I want. 50/50 parenting time. OK to make that happen over 1-2 steps over the next 3-12 months. I'll mention that I know there are concerns. I know there are trade offs. This is disruptive to their school week, etc. But I'll let it be known that it wasn't my choice, and it darn sure wasn't the children's, and it's not fair to them to give them anything less than a meaningful relationship with both of their parents.

Then I'm going to drop the mic and walk the heck out of that place.

When I got to the part about what's missing from those pictures it broke some hearts. It was the most powerful moment of my life.

What I learned is that the courts try very hard to make an inhumane situation humane. Most people working in these fields do so because they care for others and want what's best for families. Father's rights are firmly on the radar. The days of defaulting to the mama or taking everything she says as gospel are gone. The courts see through attempts of either parent to get parental time as a means to pay less or receive more child support. They get a really good grasp of the entire situation.

For me I was surprised at how validated I actually felt. Unlike you I had come off two years of visitation. During my M I was a working father and she was a SAHM, so I had a hill to climb. Yet my social workers were very interested in what I had been doing the last couple of years, how things had gone with me and my children, how we spent our time together, etc. And at the end of it they told XW that she needed to understand that she wasn't the real parent and me the father figure, we were both 50% parents in every sense. And that while I might not have some of the experience that she'd accrued being a SAHM, that I had the right to gain that experience through living with my children the same we she did. They granted both.

My goals with this post were to offer some empathy for how distasteful this is to go through, encourage you that you have a legitimate opportunity to obtain the resolution you want, and inspire you to put in the preparation that it takes to confer your vision to those that will be guiding these decisions. You CAN do this.

[Bdog37]

Hey 25 and Zues,

Thank you both for the encouraging words as it means a lot to me.

25; The mindset of a WAS is baffling to me so not sure I will every fully understand their thought process. I get the whole falling out of love with someone, but it seems to me that they transform into someone so unrecognizable that their actions become alien and very hard to understand.

Out of curiosity, was your H a man who was very involved in your children's lives early on? During piecing did you notice any change in his behavior towards your kids and did he try to take an even more active role as a father? Looking back now can you identify any warning signs that may have suggested otherwise?

The reason I ask is because sometimes I think that I ignored all the warning signs and kept the wool over my eyes just for a sense of security....or love??

Whatever she is going through (I have no clue??) there was one big warning sign sticking out to me now that I just refused to acknowledge because she (at the time) was my loving wife.

She would literally go out most weekends with friends to go drinking and even a lot during week nights. This all kind of started shortly after our firstborn (which was stressful for both of us). Her own mother would join her sometimes and it became such a normal routine that when asked why "I" allowed it....I would simply reply to the friends and family that were asking, that she deserves to go out because of all she did around the house. Also, our daily routine, she would hibernate in the bedroom after supper for her "mom time" and only come back out when it was time to put the kids to bed. The entire time all this was going on I was the one taking care of the parenting responsibilities. Yes, she did most of the housework, but on the nights she was gone it would just be the girls and I. When both were newborns I was the one that changed 95% of their diapers, woke up most nights to feed and put them back to bed, took them to school, and gave them baths. Its not that she didn't contribute, but many in my circle believed she has always been someone that values her personal time over her time with the girls. Now, Sundays where her days with the kids. She would tell me that she has felt bad with all the time she spent out with her friends so she would say that she will take the girls to her parents and give me a day "alone".

This is the life she desires now and was the warning sign that should have hit me like a 2x4. I should have realized back then that her priorities were selfish and not focused on our children or wanting a family life. What would I have done back then....nothing. I mean, sadly I was happily in love.

Could it be possible for someone to be in a MLC for 9+ years? Or do you think she is just one of those people that you described up above that has little to no remorse for her selfish actions? Again, I understand my faults and her falling out of love for me but not caring to be a part of your children's lives is just.....alien to me!



Zues; As a father I am sorry you had to go through all of that. It seems unfair that our legal system denies good father's the opportunities to co-parent and be a part of their child's lives. Yes, things are getting better legally but there are still so many father's out there fighting a hard battle just to be with their kids and its pretty sad.

I am, so far, one of the lucky ones in the fact that my STBEW shows me little to have me believe she wants to hinder my time with our girls. Of course, this could all change with her and in the eyes of the courts. I could be fighting a long hard battle that you and so many other wonderful fathers had to endure. If I do, then it is a battle I am willing to put up and see through.

The presentation you had to do was a great ideal and I'm glad it worked out in the end! Its a shame that you actually had to "convince" people that you are a worthy father, but if it comes down to me having to do the same then I just might have to take a page out of your book. Then I'll drop the mic lol. Yes, reading your post was very inspiring for that I say thank you.



I have literally just received some saddening and awesome news in regards to my sitch. Daughter has advised me that she met "mommy's new boyfriend" and that they spent much of a day playing in the pool together. This was the saddening news. I have always known that this day would come, but I thought out of respect she would have told me the girls were going to be introduced to him prior to it actually happening...then again, I'm not shocked that she continues to show me no respect.

The good news is that she continues to give up her time with the girls. For Father's Day I requested to have them the entire day. She said I can have them the entire week... Ok, fine with me. She said she is busy on the nights that are her scheduled nights so I gladly accepted. She also literally just texted me saying that she needs a "night out" (cause she's stressed) and asked if I can take the girls. Tonight is her 2nd scheduled night of the week she is supposed to have them but....of course, I accepted. Therefore, she is going to go from tonight (9th) to the 21st without seeing her kids. Just saddening.

So 25 asked why I don't go for full custody? This is a good question and many of my friends and family would agree. This is something that I will speak with my L before our next court date which is on the 22nd. I will show him the calendar (where I mark the days I have the girls), text messages where she is asking if I can take them on her scheduled nights, FB posts from her out partying when its her scheduled nights, and show him what role I play now in their lives.

Hopefully with all this information I will get full custody. You just never know these days, but I do want what is best for the girls so I would never go for it out of spite. I just want my kids growing up happy and in a safe environment which is their home. I would also be happy to allow any amount of visitation that she requested because I truly believe the kids need her in their lives...even if its on "her" time.

[Bdog37]

Need advice plz!

So recently STBEW introduced our children to her new boyfriend. It was no shock that she didn't tell me she was doing this or asked if I wanted to meet him first. I found out from my oldest.

A little recap on him; he is 42, lives with 4 roomates, and plays in a local band. His family history worries me the most as his mother is in prison for murdering his father, brother is in prison for attempted murder, and cousin is in prison for murder. I know for a fact that he also has 2 prior convictions, but I do not know what they are. If they are for violent crimes then I am obviously concerned for my children. He does have a day job and works Mon-Thurs. He does not have a valid drivers license and does not own a vehicle. Also, I know who he associates himself with and I know for a fact that some of those people do drugs. I have no evidence to believe he does, but he is friends with known drug dealers and users.

My oldest is 9 and had informed me that she went to a party at his grandma's house where she was allowed to play Grand Theft Auto 5. If anyone knows what that is then they would most likely not allow their 9 year old to play such a video game.

After hearing this, I of course was upset, but didn't bother to contact STBEW. Instead I contacted him via text. After calming down I sent a simple text that read;

"Since you are starting to hang out with my kids more I believe it is time we should meet." "Let me know when you are available".

He replied a short answer saying he agrees, that its only fair, and he will let me know.

Now, they have only been together for about 4 months so I am pretty upset about the whole situation. I have a million questions to ask him, but I'm sure he will not be cooperative and answer them truthfully.

I am wondering if there is anyone on here that has had to have such a talk, how they went about it, where did they meet, and if they have any suggestions for me?

I would truly appreciate it!!

[Bdog37]

Any advise on reaffirming boundaries with STBEW?

A few months ago I set a boundary in regards to her contacting me while I was at work. We used to chit-chat during the day, but I told her she gave all that up when she filed so please do not ever contact me again unless if its an emergency regarding our kids.

Well, lately she is using discussions about our kids to text, email, call, and even call my office to basically harass me. We have a set schedule with the girls already in place that has been working for months now. However, she continues to contact me about the schedule while I am at work.

For example: we worked out the schedule for this week on Monday. She only had the girls 2 nights this week, but needed me to watch them last night (Thursday). Unfortunately, it has been the only night I have kept my previous GAL plans and told her I was busy. She said that was fine.

Well yesterday she decided to text me while I was in a meeting. I could not respond so she continued. Then she started calling my cell. Eventually she called the office. According to her it was all to get an answer for last night on if I could watch the girls. After the meeting was over I was finally able to get back to her. I simply put that we have already discussed this and I will be picking them up Friday evening. She came back by saying that she just "needed an answer".

She has always been a person who has to have everything planned. Like, a control freak. However, now this has been affecting my work performance and my personal life. I can't go on like this much longer. The stress of all this is just too much for me to handle at times. She constantly bugs me...

One night, last week, she was stressed out because of an argument she had with her parents. For some reason she decided to text me to "vent". This was late at night and I simply told her to never text me again unless if there is an emergency regarding the girls. I told her that she no longer has that privilege because she does not want me to be her husband anymore. I told her that I was sorry that her decisions stress her out, but next time when she is stressed like this to contact her OM and not me. She apologized and said she never will again.

However, I feel overwhelmed at times and believe that she still wants to somehow keep control on my life. How do I reaffirm the boundaries when she clearly doesn't respect them? I have already told her repeatedly and will do so once last time. How should I put it to where she understands I firmly mean it without jeopardizing our set schedule?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!