I’ve read DR. I’m a recovering “Nice Guy” trying to figure out what stage of DR to apply- is it full blown LRT time? I’m currently implementing a modified 180, just trying to do things differently. My story:
My history:
Married for 17 years to the same woman, together for 24 years. The last three have been hell.
We met each other at 19. Moved out together, formed a great partnership. Early on, it seemed important for her to make the decisions; she acted like she wanted a sensitive man. So I worked hard to be “fair” to her. To please her. Classic nice guy stuff. Early on, we set up a co-dependant relationship, she was super clingy, wanting to go out with me when I wanted to go out with my friends. Not giving me space. I didn’t set boundaries—I really wanted her to be happy. We were inseparable and I felt we were taking on the world together. We moved to LA together, I got my law degree, she her MD. All seemed great.
After our first child, 12 years into our relationship, she became more and more critical of me, lashing out. Pointing out my faults. I, the dutiful husband didn’t fight, back but let her walk all over me. After all, she was stressed from working to be a doctor and the guilt of long hours away from our child. We moved from LA, and made the decision that I would stay at home and work part time and take care of the kids. I don’t regret it for the kids’ sake, but it had a negative impact on our relationship. I became more and more devoted to helping her reach her career goals and helping keep the family going. But I was on auto-pilot in my own career, thinking only of how to help her. Not developing my own friends in our new life.
All this, I believe let to our loss of a man/woman relationship, which only got worse when my son was born 6 years ago. Less sex, worse sex. Me trying harder to please her, to help her emotionally through a brutally tough career. Giving up my own power for love. Things only got worse the more power and money she gained in her career.
Fast forward three years ago, she said she wanted therapy. I was totally shocked and hurt. I didn’t think we needed any, so I did nothing. I missed the memo that I was supposed to find the therapist. She pulled away more and more, I doubled down on being nice. I worked out to be more attractive, but missed the point of getting stronger from the inside. I developed premature ejaculation, which got real bad the more she withdrew. It got to the point that she didn’t’ even want me to kiss her during sex. I was full of anxiety, tried SSRI drugs. Nothing worked. She told me to “fix” it. Finally, after trying a MC we both hated, we started going to a sex therapist. I worked solo on my sexual issues, and believe I have largely solved it. But during this time I was emotionally distraught, and made things worse by appealing to our future, pursuing strongly, asking her to come back to me, crying, and so on. She kept saying we shouldn't be having sex while working through therapy.
But after almost of year of awkward touch therapy that she was never into, my wife finally told me during therapy that “the light has gone out.” And she doesn’t want to have sex with me. But she claimed to love me. To me, this is the functional equivalent of ILYBINILWY. When I asked if she saw a future for us as a man/woman, she just “doesn’t know.” Knowing her schedule, I don’t believe she is having a physical affair, but she could have had an emotional affair.
What I’m doing now:
I woke up shortly after this, and am working on GAL, and becoming stronger and independent. I believe I have to break my NG syndrome for me to save our marriage or if we can’t, for my future life. Mainly I'm just doing what I didn't do before because what I did before wasn't working. More stuff on my own. Working on my career with the eyes on my future, versus trying to be a support for the family to further my wife's difficult career. Not texting or calling unless there's a real reason. Not following her around when she's home. Not trying for the daily hugs I bargained for (in retrospect what a weak move that was-asking for table scraps). Not being so available for her. Really working on losing the attachment, and detaching without stopping loving. All real tough since I facilitate our family operations. But my own career is very part time and uncertain. And my confidence is super low.
In one of our last therapy sessions, our MC asked what our relationship goals were. I stated. "My end goal is to be in an affectionate fulfilling intimate relationship with a woman where we are both fully and equally engaged emotionally, physically, and sexually." I said that’s what I wanted, no matter who I end up with. She said she wants to walk side by side with a partner that’s her equal, who will die for her but doesn’t need her.
Since then, I continued my personal work. She wavered in and out of distance and platonic contact. My W and I had a big conversation the night before Mother’s day. She opened up for the first time in a long time. We decided together that we were both not benefiting from the counselor we were going to. I asked her if she was open to trying another counselor, she said she was but was not sure if therapy could help us. She asked whether I had considered that we weren’t compatible. That what we wanted during our twenty’s could be different now.
She asked why I still wanted to be with her. She really seemed to want me to be negative, was tired of me being optimistic. I told her I wasn’t optimistic anymore, that I didn’t have her on a pedestal. That I was trying to keep the family together. That I feel we had been in love once and could be again. Against my better judgement, she got me to tell her some of things I really didn’t like about her. She accepted it okay. She seemed to want me to be negative. But no matter what I still have not been able to get to her tell me she’s done with our marriage.
I told her this would never work unless she was fully committed to the therapy. We disagreed about whether or not she had been committed to the current therapy. I think she never bought into it. We’ve agreed that we would look for another MC.
She said that over the years she had lost the feeling of me as a protector. I think this is unfair, but it explains a lot. She also accused me of being angry. I said I was angry because when she started to feel differently about me she didn’t do enough to get through to me to save our relationship. She said she did, but I didn’t listen. I said I didn’t understand which stuff was really meaningful because it came in the midst of many other criticisms of me. I agreed that we both had made mistakes. But I reminded her a few times that I still only want a full man/woman relationship long term. We talked a lot. She claims to like me and really care for me still, but she’s afraid to express general kindness and friendship to me because she’s afraid I’ll stop listening to her. But she said no matter what happens she always wants to be my friend. I said that’s hard to accept that she's still me friend when she treats me like [censored] all the time. She told me she’d work on being a better friend to me. I said thank you. She spent the rest of the evening handing out with me, and it was a veil had been removed. We were hanging out without tension. Certainly no intimate vibes, but friendly for the first time in a while.
My questions:
So I’m in a conundrum as to what to do. I think if we are going to be together our dynamic has to change. I’m caught between being happy to have a less icy relationship, and the feeling that if we’re too friendly, she won’t be able to transition back into a couple.
Anybody have any ideas? She seems like a partial WAW, but not walking away yet. I’m not sure whether to do full bore NRT or continue to work a modified 180. Is being friends with her when she’s not in love with me a fast trip to staying in the friend zone forever? Is there any chance to keep working on our relationship, when her discussion seems to be implying she doesn’t think we’re compatible again, about focusing on how she wants to stay friends no matter what.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I'm sorry about you marital situation. Is she having an affair (EA or PA)?
She sounds a lot like a walk-away wife (WAW), but I think that's a relatively rare creature. There's usually someone else around who's absorbing all of her emotional energy.
Yes, I agree with Doodler. Is there a possible OM in the picture? In my situation that is where the icy relationship started, as a W diverts her affection to someone else.
Me-LBH, 48 Spouse-WW, 48 Married for 19 years Son, 12 BD #1 - November 1998 (EA 7 months after wedding) BD #2 - November 2015 (same XBF EA) WW filed D February 2016 WW moved out April 2016
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
You mentioned that you were both unhappy with current MC and are considering a new one. Be careful! Not all MC are created equal. Michele has an excellent You Tube video titled "When Couples Therapy is a Bad Idea" Please check this out before you find another MC.
You are at a very fragile point in this relationship and it would be extremely helpful to know what your next move should be. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
The MLC chapter in DR talks about men having MLCs. IN any of your experiences, can women have MLCs? As a man with what I think is a WAW, I have been trying to get to the root of my wife's unhappiness with me. I'm trying to see if the MLC chapter applies to my sitch.
Although I know now my M had problems for a long time, my wife's total withdrawal of affection from me coincided with her displaying numerous MLC signs. Bought a fancy car, became freaked out she wasn't achieving enough in life, and so on.
I will reread your post and think about this. I am in a very similar situation but further or longer down the line. I have stuff to say that I learned on my path that may help.
In the meantime keep posting.
I will say that regardless of whether you agree or find it fair, her perspective is her truth. HEAR her.
From your brief outline I don't think you are in lrt yet.There will be time enough for that later.
Although it is not where your focus should be, an EA will prevent any progress regardless what you do. I would want to know if I was up against that. My W did have an inappropriate friend, which I am sure did not help me. I snooped a lot to be sure it didn't develop. It consumed me.I decided to dig for proof and confront. I found only light stuff that would fall into a friendship so without proof I decided to not let this eat me up. Easier said than done. That friendship is no longer present but W is still not there .
IMO a M cannot thrive/survive if one partner is emotionally connected elsewhere.But breaking that connection is not the key, though it must happen to progress. We are all in this mess because we lost the connection with our spouses.ThThe key is to rebuild connection.TThat is slow.
Finally I wrote more than intended. I got to go. I'll check back in a while.Keep posting. The more info we have the better our insight into your situation.It will also help you as you have to think about your M deeply to tell us.
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
