Who am I and what do I want?

[JGuy]

First thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2623444&page=1

Second thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2630437&page=1

Third thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2638268&page=1

It has been 2.5 months now since I started really letting go and detaching from my W while trying to work on myself. That was after giving my W multiple chances to end her EA and go NC with OM. About 1 month into the process of working on myself (around Feb 1st) my W started to come around, saying that things were shifting and she was losing interest in the OM, seeing that it was just a fantasy. Since then, we have continued MC sessions which have become increasingly positive and helpful. My W and I are both learning a lot about ourselves. We are realizing what the unhealthy patterns of our R were. Things are changing. We are treating each other with more respect. When we do have conflicts, I am finding that we are able to approach it in a new way.

My W is now say that the OM is very distant and although she didn't make any hard commitment to go NC, the interest has naturally faded and they have not been in touch for awhile. She is saying that she is feeling moments of attraction to me again, here and there, although there is still a lot she needs to work through to feel close to me again. She has initiated kisses and cuddles a few times in the past month. This has prompted me to think harder about what I want, what my boundaries are, and whether I really am ready to accept her back as she is, at this time.

A few weeks ago I was presented with the opportunity to start my own EA but I handled it by being transparent with my W, honest about the attraction that I felt. The OW and I agreed to play it safe and we took space from each other. My W is friends with the OW and they had a good talk that helped, but I kept a distance from the OW anyways.

These past two weeks have seen a much more intense transformation taking place inside of me. I have been feeling very detached but also loving toward my W. Seeing her as she really is. I am approaching my W very differently with less expectations and more curiosity about who she is, who I am, and whether we are really right for each other. I can say that I'm genuinely OK with whatever happens. I am still very uncertain about whether we are a good fit. As I heal myself and the old patterns fall away, what's left is two people who are really quite different and don't actually have all that much in common.

I am looking for something new that could draw us together and provide a foundation for a new R, but so far I have not seen that. Despite the positive changes in my W's sentiment about me, I still feel like we are simply not on the same wavelength. When I am true to myself, she naturally withdraws and we have trouble finding flow together. I am an Aries and she is a Pisces. My fire boils her water and her water puts out my fire... Or something like that. Who knows!

After taking things slow for awhile now, I have been increasingly doubtful about whether saving my M and staying with my W is really something that would be fulfilling for us both. I do love her, and I feel very detached now, even like I have forgiven her. But strangely, I can see this going in a direction where we lovingly and mutually accept that ending the M may be the most exciting and happy way forward for us both. We would remain close friends and co-parents. I am maintaining a curious stance, for now, as I am open to being surprised as we continue to work on ourselves. Perhaps the "something new that could draw us together" piece just hasn't revealed itself yet. Either way I feel happy and excited. I am beginning to really enjoy the limbo now as it feels full of possibility, and I get to decide where I go from here.

I have been seeing a new IC (3rd one) who I really like a lot. He is male and I feel very aligned with his approach. Last week I had a session with him where he told me that given my situation, my patterns, and how I'm feeling, he thinks that it will actually be good for me to embrace the exciting feelings of being open to possibilities of meeting other women. He believes that I can do this without acting in any ways that would be permanently damaging to the possibility of saving my M, should that be in the cards. He thinks that it may actually help to catalyze things, pull me out of my comfortable patterns, and bring back my W's attraction to me.

This has me second guessing my decision to maintain a distance from the OW. Fundamentally, I don't think that rebound relationships are ever a good idea, so I wouldn't want to start anything new right now. If something did start to grow between me and the OW, I think it would actually be good for me to set that boundary and insist that I am not in a place to go there at this time. If my M did come to its own natural end in the months ahead, and I was able to maintain the focus on myself until I solidify this new sense of self, then perhaps the time could come when I would be ready for a new R. I can see my own patterns clearly enough now that I realize how I give too much of myself away in relationships because of my fear of aloneness. I feel like I'm on the right track to remedying that, but I'm still vulnerable and I could easily slip into projecting all my happiness on another person. It really is true what they say about how the biggest life problems arise when you betray yourself. I can see how it's all about that for me, at this stage.

As for GALing, I have been enjoying a new drop-in volleyball group at the local community center. I have been playing guitar with friends, skiing and mountain biking. I also started taking a course at a local center for psychic studies called "self healing 101". I am meeting new friends there. I am feeling more alive and moved by an adventurous sense of wonder these days!

[JGuy]

Hi Jguy , I've read your responses and I feel it's time for me to remove myself from your thread. I wish you all the best and hope things work out for you and more importantly for your son. If I may just say a few things

I would ask you to read the story of Budda teaching a student of how to find " the answer " to life , The student searched all over and tried so hard to understand but he couldn't or wouldn't see what was in front of him

I've followed your thread from the start , you have blamed your birth, your dad , your W , me , other posters , etc because we did not treat you the way you wanted or advise you the way you wanted. PLEASE PLEASE , actually be the independent thinker you claim to be and THINK what's the common denominator here I'm not saying it's all your fault , far from it , your W has acted with very low moral fibre but you are not doing yourself any favours with the ego you are carrying around. Sometimes we are wrong and it's hard to accept that maturely and I speak from experience, instead of using words like integrity to describe your self why not try the word humble or thoughtful There is an old joke about a guy asked to describe his worse fault and the guy thinks long and hard and answers that he is too generous !!!

Eckhart toole describes ego very well

It's funny because Rd is sounding a lot like the cult leader whom I had the falling out with 12 years ago. Ironically, that cult leader (Mada Dalian) knows Eckhart Tolle personally. I met Eckhart Tolle myself about 15 years ago while I was in that cult. I read his books and I think he is great! I have my own mystery to solve. Indeed, I have plenty of ego that gets in the way of me finding my own truth. And it's also true that people often misinterpret me and fail to see the goodness of my intentions and the validity of my own mental process. Life is full of these strange paradoxes. Ultimately, I've got to find my own truth within, or I'll just spin in self doubt and worrying that other people know better than I do about what's right for me.

On the IC vs Shaman debate , my point was IC said you had no empathy for others and Shaman said you gave to much of yourself to others You agreed that both were right

Both the IC and Shaman both felt that I was giving too much of myself away. I don't think there's a contradiction. On the inside I give too much of myself away, and as a result, on the outside I have trouble feeling empathy. I think these are connected and it makes sense. By healing from the inside out, starting by not giving too much of myself away anymore, I will then be able to interact with other out of freedom and inner wholeness, and I will be able to feel more empathetic.

If you decide not to come back to my thread, Rd, then that's too bad. I agree it has been frustrating how we seem to miss each other, but you seem to be attached to a conclusion that you think you are right and I'm wrong, and that the problem has more to do with my ego. I would challenge you to own your part and stay open.

[JGuy]

I want to elaborate on the confusing state I'm in now. I have moments of feeling excited by all of the unknown, then I have moments of feeling very restless and tired of waiting for my indecisive W to figure out what she wants. I get itchy for change and forward movement and she seems to prefer the exact opposite: holding back and resisting change.

My W is saying that things are shifting, she is saying that she feels some attraction to me again, and she is saying that the space I have given her is helping and that she is coming around. But her actions don't really align with this. There have been some kisses and cuddles as I mentioned, but still a strong resistance to really connecting with me. She resists when I invite her to do new things out of our ordinary patterns that would challenge the norms. She keeps a comfortable distance and has many excuses for avoiding intimacy. I feel ready for anything, ready to forgive, dive into the future and curiously explore what we might learn together. I am also ready to accept that perhaps we aren't right for each other, diving into the future to curiously explore what a life apart from each other might hold in store. I have told her recently that it's all OK, that she shouldn't feel afraid to consider all possibilities. We should get in touch with ourselves, be honest, and hold the intention of discovering what we really want. She quietly resists and keeps a certain distance. I can tell that she is moved by the new JGuy and some part of her is drawn to explore with me, but some other dominant part of her holds back. I don't know whether to be patient and trust her to come around, or whether heading off to explore without her is exactly what will draw her out of her stasis. Or perhaps there's absolutely nothing wrong with her stasis and she is just being true to herself, that what's being revealed is a genuine difference between us that I should accept and realize won't ever change. If so, then I definitely don't feel like she is the right partner for me, as this feels very empty and one-sided right now. Or perhaps she is the right partner and this all has something to do with me learning to let go and be unattached to expectations. It's all pretty confusing! I suppose I am pretty indecisive myself. Because of how confusing it is, I am compelled to just stay put and continue waiting for a clear way forward to reveal itself. I am definitely changing, so that's a good thing, I suppose.

[Phoebe]

She is feeling unsure of herself and the choices she's made. The time and space you are giving her are the best things you can do to allow her to sort herself out. Maybe she's afraid, too.

You're doing the right thing by giving her time and space.

I have to keep that in mind every single day with my WAH. He's lost, and all I can do is give him the time and space he needs to sort himself out. Maybe he'll come back and maybe he won't, but I can't do a darn thing to change his side of the equation.

[sandi2]

My W is saying that things are shifting, she is saying that she feels some attraction to me again, and she is saying that the space I have given her is helping and that she is coming around. But her actions don't really align with this. There have been some kisses and cuddles as I mentioned, but still a strong resistance to really connecting with me. She resists when I invite her to do new things out of our ordinary patterns that would challenge the norms. She keeps a comfortable distance and has many excuses for avoiding intimacy.

To me, it sounds as if she's putting just enough bait on the hook to keep you nibbling.

[JGuy]

To me, it sounds as if she's putting just enough bait on the hook to keep you nibbling.

Yes, that has occurred to me Sandi. She is being awfully opaque and mysterious. I am feeling pretty antsy and tired of it. There isn't much left in me that motivates me to hold on, other than the fact that ending the M is a big deal, and the uncertainty that maybe my W will somehow come around. But even if she does, we are just so different. There is just so much conflict and she isn't the type of person who really wants to work through all of that stuff. I know this would need to change in order for us to have a harmonious M and really grow together and work through our issues. I often feel like I am fooling myself by holding onto a hope that somehow she will change. I have been getting a lot of advice recently that hoping for someone to change is a losing game. You need to either let go and find a way to accept them as they are, or end the R if the issue is really a showstopper.

I have been leaning in this direction more and more, recently.

[JujuB]

hi JGUY

I think that change is possible but spouse has to be motivated. Spouse will only be motivated if they want us back badly enough. If they don't, then we (the LBS) will probably be walking on egg shells for the rest of our marriages, and that's probably best case scenario.

It's really hard to accept this. Certainly a blow to the ego.

I think continue with detachment. Hold back a little. Maybe let her do the pursuing. If she wants you back she will. If not, it sounds like you have other paths ahead of you as well.

Unfortunatly, it's all a game when dealing with WS. They don't appreciate what they have. They need to pursue or to lose something in order to appreciate it. If you still want them, unfortunatly you have to play game.

[JGuy]

Thanks for that advice, JujuB.

I went through a period of about 2 months during January and February where I completely withdrew emotionally from my W. I was kind and open-hearted, but I really let go of all expectations. Stopped calling her "honey" and stopped all pursuing. Mid-February she started saying that the OM was out of the picture for good, that things had shifted for her, that she wanted to save the M. Our couples counseling session became more fruitful since then. We are learning a lot about ourselves and each other through it. We are back to calling each other "honey" again, and we have been kissing and cuddling a bit. But she is still emotionally distant, resistant to being close.

One of the main concerns I continue to have is that the reasons for my W wanting to save the M seem to be the wrong reasons (fear, not love). She is afraid of all the upset that a D would cause our son and our lifestyle. She is attached to the familiarity of me, our home, our life together. She gets emotionally overwhelmed and cries easily when she thinks about ending the M. Nowhere in all of this do I sense that she wants to save the M because of her love for ME. She doesn't seem to really want ME. She rarely initiates any intimacy. Most evenings she is happy to just keep herself busy with her own things and avoid me. Exercise and watching soap operas. She herself has admitted that she just wants all of the comforts of the M without any of the burden that comes with caring for me and my needs. I am not demanding, but anytime I try to express any needs, it comes across that way and has the effect of pushing her away. I am very tired of this dynamic. I just want to be with someone who wants me, who enjoys spending quality time with me, and who needs physical touch like I do.

A secondary and growing concern I continue to have is just how different my W and I are. We enjoy such different things, and my W has never had any interest in trying activities that we could both enjoy. We are just so different in some fundamental ways, philosophically. When I imagine a future with her, even if we can heal from the affairs, I imagine it always being somewhat sad and unfulfilling for me. It was always like this, even before she became wayward. The magnitude of what would have to change for me to feel really happy and fulfilled just seems so unrealistic. I am awkwardly inching toward admitting that all along, I was minimizing my needs and staying in denial about how unfulfilled I was. Don't get me wrong though, my W is such a lovely person. We are just so different. I think I may just be an idiot when it comes to wisely assessing whether someone is right for me.

The last week has been heavy and sad. Glimpses of a happiness and freedom that lies beyond this very hard decision to leave my M. Amidst all the fear and self-doubt, I have been experiencing a growing feeling that ending the M is probably the best thing for us both in the long run. Probably best for our son as well. I want him to have parents who are in love and with a strong, alive growth relationship. I know I can give him that as an example, but I just can't imagine how it would ever be possible with my W.

Feeling scared, uncertain. Wanting to continue taking it slow, but also feeling a strong impulse to push forward and lead in the right direction, giving my W her freedom back, and taking back mine. Through the fear and out the other side...

[JGuy]

I learned something interesting from a book called The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman yesterday, when it was mentioned on an episode of Personality Hacker podcast. There are 5 different ways of expressing love. Each of us has a tendency toward one of these ways. There can be a mismatch, which makes is harder, but not impossible for a couple to make it work. Out of curiosity, I rated the 5 love languages from most to least important to me. I then asked my W to rate them for herself. They are:

Acts of Service
Words of Affirmation
Gift Giving
Quality Time
Physical Touch

Physical touch was #1 on my list and it was #5 on my W's list. No wonder I feel so unloved! Acts of service was high on her list but in the middle for me. So that is one thing I can work on to show her love in the way she needs it.

Interesting.

[pinn]

My wife and I were on completely different pages in terms of our love language. I hope to be able to give that another go now that I have this new understanding. One thing I realized that not only was I not speaking her language, but she was not speaking mine either. Knowledge is powerful.