have i been making mistakes too long part 4

[dwh15]

It does no good to worry, I know. And you said what I thought you would say. And I agree. I'm going to go foward as business as usual with no R talks.

I think that's the right call. Not sure what choice you have unless you are prepared to change jobs for the sake of remaining local. This may not be a bad thing in the long run. It's going to be equivalent to "going dark" during most of the week. When you come home on weekends, focus on the kids. I think it will allow you to detach easier over time, and will give your W a taste of what life is going to be like w/o you around.

Yes, it's going to be hard thinking about what she "might" be doing while you are gone. It doesn't really matter whether you are around or not though. My WW had 3 affairs right under my nose while living with me. She simply became an expert liar. Your W is going to do what she wants to do, regardless of your presence. It's hard, but you have to try and let it go. With any luck, she will start to miss you and possibly start moving towards working on the M, rather than away from it.

[tkdmme]

I honestly am looking foward to the move. It will give me a chance to breath. I am going to charleston sc which I've never been to before. I hear it's an awesome place. I'm planning on picking up some piano work. Either tuning or playing. It will keep me busy after work.

[tkdmme]

last night was a bit strange. Her brother has a BIL who is mentally handicapped and he and I have always got along great. Anyway, last night was his bday and SIL told me he wanted us to come over for dinner and bday party. He shares my love for old cars. I gave him a spare horn ring from my 64 galaxie.

I was nervous about going over there. The past few time we went the conversation eventually came to my W and I M. However this did not happen. Everyone was very pleasant and got along great. Even the W seemed to be in good spirits. I was not expecting this.

We have been taking separate cars whenever we go anywhere lately. She says she doesn't want to be stranded and wants to be able to leave when she is ready. However last night she asked to ride with me. and when i said i have to leave she agreed and we left. I prayed with the kids and went to sleep. Overall a good night.

I am not reading much into this and i stayed distant through the night to maintain my space from her. It did feel like a victory in the fact that there was nothing brought up at the party about our m.

[tkdmme]

My w was a graphic artist and photographer before we had kids. She has been talking about doing this again and asked me what I thought.

I told her that I thought it was a great idea. She then quickly backed off and said that she doesn't think that she could do it because she doesn't have the business skills to do it on her own. I told her that I thought she should pursue it and that she could learn the business skills as she went along. The conversation continued and we never talked about us or M. It felt to me like a pleasant conversation between 2 people who have known each other for years. Maybe even a conversation between friends.

My question is. Should I be having these types of conversations with her?

Should I offer opinions or advise when asked?

Or should I appear uninterested in her goals?

These questions probably sound stupid but I wanted to run them by you guys to get some clarification.

[dwh15]

My w was a graphic artist and photographer before we had kids. She has been talking about doing this again and asked me what I thought.

I told her that I thought it was a great idea. She then quickly backed off and said that she doesn't think that she could do it because she doesn't have the business skills to do it on her own. I told her that I thought she should pursue it and that she could learn the business skills as she went along. The conversation continued and we never talked about us or M. It felt to me like a pleasant conversation between 2 people who have known each other for years. Maybe even a conversation between friends.

My question is. Should I be having these types of conversations with her?

Should I offer opinions or advise when asked?

Or should I appear uninterested in her goals?

These questions probably sound stupid but I wanted to run them by you guys to get some clarification.

Hopefully some of the vets will chime in, but I think that those types of conversations are actually a good thing. This is where your sitch differs from a WW. If you knew for sure there was an OM in the picture, then I would enforce min contact. But in your case, you want to have that kind of friendly, supporting role in your W's life. I wouldn't offer advice unless asked, but if she's asking, I would say go ahead. Try not to read into it too much, but seems like a small positive step.

[CaliGuy]

^ X2

Any time you can engager them in a pleasant conversation its good. Its also a good thing she is sharing something with you that is a personal interest, was good you validated and supported her. My wife has been into photography as long as I have known her, she puts a pinkie toe in and will pursue it for a month then put the camera down for a year .... however when she picks it up again she always needs a new lense/body ... what have you. During our separation she too brought up leaving the corprate world and starting her own buisness, I supproted/validated ... would be easy to point out she does not stick with it .. but knew better ... all her, her choice.

Careful when you offer opinions, you do not want to 'fix' her, nor tell her what she should do ... just STFU listen and support, if she asks you what you would do, pull a generic "I would chase my dreams" kind of answer ... not "I would do 1, 2, 3, and 4 in this order that's the only way you will be successful" .... The important part is not to solve their problems, just to listen to them and make them feel like they have been heard.

[sandi2]

Sandi -
Curious on your thoughts on this.

In my opinion (for what thats worth) is that you are replying to the action itself - taking your daughter to a basketball game. I agree that depending on the situation, that could be a good or bad action with respect to the goal of reconciling.

But what about the thought process behind it: "If I say no my daughter doesn't go and everyone thinks I'm a bad dad.". In my opinion, THIS is not good DB-ing regardless of the situation. I think you decide to take her to the game based on your relationship with your daughter, not because you want to prove how good (or not bad) of a dad you are.

Well, I'm very flattered you asked for my opinion. And, for whatever it's worth, I usually have one.

I'm really glad you brought the point around more clearly, b/c sometimes I don't make myself understood the way I meant it. Yes, I was referring to the action that was given in the example of taking the D to the game. If the LBH and W were close to reconciling and she asked him to take D to the game b/c she was busy with the other kids.....and the H refused (just for no particular reason), then it might hinder their reconciliation, depending on the W.

I also agree 100% about what's the thought behind the action. I may sound hard at times, whenever a man is saying he's doing something for his kids and not his W, but my main point to him is not to fool himself or make excuses for his true motivation behind his action. He should not do it b/c he's trying to prove anything to anyone (and a lot of newcomers do this, based on something the W has said about the past.) Another side of that thought is to not fall victim to the mentality of what WW (or anyone else) may think about what he does or doesn't do. I can tell you that for the most part, the WW is not going to think her LBH is anything special, regardless of what he does. Her own thought process is so twisted, bitter, self centered, and has such as sense of entitlement (believes H owes it to her). He won't be able to prove anything to her satisfaction, b/c she will have a accusatory response. He can't win with her, and having the attitude or doing something in order to stay on her good side.....is not healthy at all. The harder he tries to be the "good guy" (to keep W or in-laws off his back), the more she will use him for her own selfish reasons....and all the while, detesting him. IMO, I would say that goes for any part or time during the relationship, b/c it would not only be bad DBing, but unhealthy in so many ways. That particular mindset about not wanting to be the bad guy, is one of the missteps he took in his MR, but that's another post for another time. In short, he just needs to be the man and do what he wants to do, and believes is best... and not based on others seeing him as the bad or good guy.

I ask because my kids are starting school again soon, and my W will have them many school nights. Im trying to get a gauge on where that line should fall and how to navigate tricky waters without become a "babysitter".

That's a really tough one, and shared by many people who are in the same boat. I am so suspicious of a WW, b/c I know a little bit about that kind of mindset and how they use the LBH for their own deceitful purposes.

Do you have primary custody of the kids? If she's living with the OM (or even if she's not), then my next question would be how do your children feel when they are around him? If they feel uncomfortable b/c of how he treats them or how he acts around them, I would probably let it tip the scale a bit. Maybe I just hear too much these days, or maybe b/c I have grandchildren living with my former DIL and her OM.

I assume she gives you reasons for trading out nights or asking you to take the kids somewhere when she can't. If you don't keep them, who would she ask to babysit? If it's someone you really know and trust, then I think you could decline if you wanted. OTOH, if you don't know who or where they may stay, you might want to reconsider. It's tough, b/c you may not know if she's being completely honest about not having anyone, or having to get some "new" person. That's scary.

The next thing I would probably consider are the ages of the kids and "who" is really asking you, WW or the kids. You may want to consider whatever circumstances surrounding that particular time she, or they, are asking to stay with you. For example, are they wanting to attend some school function that W can't/won't take them. They may have some other particular issue and want to be home with you. I'm sure you've already thought about all this, plus much more.

Lots of other things could be considered, but I think if you have not heard directly from one of the kids (without her coaching), and/or none of the above things could justify her reason for asking you to keep them.....then she's probably just looking for a babysitter. One thing to bear in mind (and I'm sure you have), is that she knows you better than anyone, and just how to work you.

Sorry, if I wasn't not much help.

[tkdmme]

I am starting to have more and more days where I'm thinking that I don't want to be in a m with someone who has and is continuing to inflict this much damage.

I am starting to realize that D may be in my future. Of course I don't want the D but I'm having these feeling. She is becoming less attractive to me and I'm starting to remember her part in the demise of the m.

The worst part is sharing the same house with her. I dread coming home. Not that we are fighting. We haven't had a fight in a while. I just hate coming home to a w who has fired me. I want to show her love but cant. I want to give her a hug but I cant. I want to tell the kids that everything will be fine but I cant.

I keep second guessing everything I'm doing and asking myself why I'm doing it. Why I'm I fighting for a m that she doesn't want? Why do I want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me?

This is very hard and has alot of facets. Her family says I can't give up hope. My family is sending me contact info for lawyers.

Good lord. What a mess.

[CaliGuy]

tkd

Your emotions are in full control right now ... the cycling that is going on is normal ... well normal for someone in your sitch.

Yes D may be in your future, so could a yellow bicycle ... thing is both of those will be your choice when the time comes, again .. uR's wise words, make those decisions from a place of strength.

The worst part is sharing the same house with her. I dread coming home. Not that we are fighting. We haven't had a fight in a while. I just hate coming home to a w who has fired me. I want to show her love but cant. I want to give her a hug but I cant. I want to tell the kids that everything will be fine but I cant.

Tkd ... all that ^^^ ... that's needy, and its the old way you were doing things, which wound you up here right? That's not detached, nor will it get you what you 'want' .... you need to get to a place where you are good with you then you start figuring out what you NEED ... not just settling for what you 'want'.

[tkdmme]

Dude,

Why don't I have friends like you. All my friends tell me #&%@ her and try to hook me up with someone. I'm so sick of hearing that. I don't want to "hook up". I want to be me and be a better dad. I can do that.

I have to admit I've been tempted many times to be unfaithful but I would never act on it.

When I was playing piano in Miami women would stuff notes in my pockets while I was working. Me and the w used to have a great laugh the next morning going through and reading them.

I've never been the type to cheat. It's just not me. And my w knows this. She knows that I have had plenty of opportunities and never acted on them.

I'm rambling. The point is I'm so grateful for you advise. I know we will never meet, but thank you so much.