Thank you to all and goodbye to my W

[ATPeace]

Matt777

I have just read the whole thread and I have been deeply touched you were there for me on many occasion you truley are amazing. It has all been said but none of us wanted to be here we all came looking for answers and help and support with the goal of saving our marriage and finding ways to become the best that we can.

Take care my friend

Ghost

[HeavyD]

Well said Matt!

Good luck to you and I hope everything works out in the end for you. I have a feeling it will as you are very insightful and mature.

Anyone would be lucky lucky lucky to have you in their lives.

[Vanilla]

Mrs Matt, you are welcome to post on my thread at any time.

Matt has grown and developed into someone who is going to be a wonderful co-parent for your children. There are many testimonials to this caring generous man.

V

[Mozza]

Thanks for the update, Matt777. It still escapes me how someone you know could stumble upon this thread, even if your real name was Matt. Perhaps you could explain? Who would type what into a search engine and, most importantly, under what motivation? Whose father, friend, in-laws or cousin is searching online to see if someone they know is sharing some juicy details about their D? And how would they find this? Unless you've used real names of course, but the board seems to delete these posts. As others have told you, I believe your W is trying to make you feel guilty for it, as many WAS do to cover their own guilt. There is no reason for you to feel bad for sharing anonymously, but it appears that you still let your W decide how you should feel, or want her to believe she does.

I'm not especially impressed in your virtuous desire to avoid the dating scene. It sounds a lot like a good excuse to avoid confronting your fears and, probably, the behaviors that got you here. You say in the same post that it's awfully difficult for you to interact socially and your victories are when others approach you, like the fantasy league. What you need to become a better person is to confront your fears: you need to approach these guys and ask them if you can join. Even if they say no, that will be a victory for you anyway. You will have learn to express your desires and to take responsibility to have them fulfilled. Imagine what will happen over time if you learn to do this.

A better way to approach dating would be to put yourself out there and be honest. Approach women who interest you and don't promise more than you can offer. Not need to start with "Hi, my name is Matt777 and I'm not over my W yet", just not to lie, especially not to promise undying love until you can. There are women out there who are perfectly comfortable with your situation and won't feel betrayed that you don't want to marry them or that you still love your W for now. Accept that some others will find you less-than-good. Their perception is not your responsibility but your happiness is and yours alone.

If you haven't already, I strongly suggest that you take a look at the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. You crave being told that you're a nice person, that you're worthy of love, that you're doing the right thing. What you want, your desires, what makes you happy, all these come last. It's almost shameful to think that you could wake up with the plan to make yourself happy. If so, you really need a good think about it because you might end up in the same place of hurt not long from here. For now, I'll just say that nice guys are not that nice after all and many of them end up in a D, like us.

[Zelda09]

Matt, I want to offer words of support for how you are handling. I do not believe you fear dating just because you want to know you've fully let go of one rope before you may jerk someone (namely you) around by picking up another one.

We learned in my divorce care group that often, like activity is possible on a broken rib, by not letting it heal correctly, it will flare up and give you problems for years.

On the other hand it is nice to see fish out in the sea, and know one is not dead. It does have a way of widening the perspective and giving hope.

I have been seeing a man I'm interested in weekly, sometimes only a couple of times a month since May. Handsome professor/researcher. He knew I was going through a D, and he never asked anything beyond that. We've not held hands, or even moved into a R stance. We see each other, have lovely dates and I have grown to like him without getting emotionally or physically involved.

I've not gone to kiss him even. It is the strangest and most wonderful thing, actually, to get to know someone without the distraction of hormones. I don't want to move anything to another place yet, because as I said to a dear friend, it would be like trying to digest food without a stomach. And I'm thankful for his patience and understanding, as he asks for only my time and company. God knows what I could have even said about where my heart was and what I could offer without fulling understanding it anyway.

We all handle things differently, and Mozza's approach may be healthiest for Mozza.

But I know on one of these concert 'dates' my friend and I were talking close, and I was absolutely haunted my by X every time I felt like I wanted to plant one on him. Seeing X and feeling X like my brain was hijacked. When he no longer is in the back of my mind, anywhere, or even randomly - that will be the time I may choose to really explore my interest in this person.

I think you are wise to know yourself, Matt.

[Matt777]

Thank you for taking the time to reply in such detail Mozza. I'd like to take some time to reply to some of the things you say.

Thanks for the update, Matt777. It still escapes me how someone you know could stumble upon this thread, even if your real name was Matt. Perhaps you could explain? Who would type what into a search engine and, most importantly, under what motivation? Whose father, friend, in-laws or cousin is searching online to see if someone they know is sharing some juicy details about their D? And how would they find this? Unless you've used real names of course, but the board seems to delete these posts. As others have told you, I believe your W is trying to make you feel guilty for it, as many WAS do to cover their own guilt. There is no reason for you to feel bad for sharing anonymously, but it appears that you still let your W decide how you should feel, or want her to believe she does.

I understand this. I certainly agree with many of your points about guilt. There are really 2 reasons that I've made this decision. The first is that she had asked me not to post things, and I want to honor that request. But the second is that I found that by posting about my interactions and R with her in such detail, I wasn't able to truly let go. I became so focused on her that I lost sight of what was really important - me.

I'm not especially impressed in your virtuous desire to avoid the dating scene. It sounds a lot like a good excuse to avoid confronting your fears and, probably, the behaviors that got you here. You say in the same post that it's awfully difficult for you to interact socially and your victories are when others approach you, like the fantasy league. What you need to become a better person is to confront your fears: you need to approach these guys and ask them if you can join. Even if they say no, that will be a victory for you anyway. You will have learn to express your desires and to take responsibility to have them fulfilled. Imagine what will happen over time if you learn to do this.

A better way to approach dating would be to put yourself out there and be honest. Approach women who interest you and don't promise more than you can offer. Not need to start with "Hi, my name is Matt777 and I'm not over my W yet", just not to lie, especially not to promise undying love until you can. There are women out there who are perfectly comfortable with your situation and won't feel betrayed that you don't want to marry them or that you still love your W for now. Accept that some others will find you less-than-good. Their perception is not your responsibility but your happiness is and yours alone.

First, with regards to dating, I see what you are saying. I'm not trying to be virtuous. But I'm not ready yet. I'm not ready to put myself into the position of dating someone while in the D process. I am not over my first relationship, so why rush into this one. I'm enjoying my time GAL, with my kids, and alone. I will take your advice when the time is right though - thank you for that.

As for your read on my interactions with my new friends, I may not have expressed myself clearly. My excitement is not about being approached per se. It's not about this specific thing. It's that I did ask to join (by going to this game night), and that I've fit in enough to take my friendship with these people to other areas of my life. It's that they were interested in being with me socially outside of this organized, free, public event. I didn't know this league existed, so I wasn't going to ask them to join it. Yes, I probably could have approached them again to do something else outside of the game night...and that is something I need to work on. But for now, I'm mostly excited by what Zelda wrote ^^^. Knowing that I'm not dead. Knowing that I do have things to offer and that people will respond to it.

If you haven't already, I strongly suggest that you take a look at the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. You crave being told that you're a nice person, that you're worthy of love, that you're doing the right thing. What you want, your desires, what makes you happy, all these come last. It's almost shameful to think that you could wake up with the plan to make yourself happy. If so, you really need a good think about it because you might end up in the same place of hurt not long from here. For now, I'll just say that nice guys are not that nice after all and many of them end up in a D, like us.

I will look into the book. I haven't read it but I've heard a lot of good reviews. Thank you for your recommendation. I will have to consider your thoughts here some more and think on how I really act, think, and feel.

[PigPen]

Hey Matt,

Just good to have you back on here letting us know that you're still DB'ing and doing your best for your family and yourself. I read NMMNG a number of times and plan to do so every few weeks. It's a very powerful book about male co-dependence and how what appears to be one thing on the surface is often not the truth. Definitely worth reading. The author also holds seminars and classes throughout the country. Check it out.

I still think about you often, how much you gave to everyone on this board and all of the great advice you passed on.

Stay strong my friend,

PP

[Zues126]

Mozza, you and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum here. I am not saying you're wrong for you, but I don't think there's a one size fits all approach.

I don't like the comment "you need to approach these guys and ask them if you can join".

I get that you were a nice guy, and that you've felt personal liberation and satisfaction by getting out of your comfort zone. But what works for you may not work for everyone else.

Personally the idea of splashing around in the dating field is such a turn off too me it makes me sick to think about. I am not confident around women and that's ok with me, because I don't want to score a lot and build confidence, I want to meet one woman that is willing to partner with one man. And while this may seem old fashioned, I hope there is one woman out there that also wants to preserve some type of sanctity of the male-female intimate relationship.

I applaud your willingness to take on personal growth, and I support you sharing your path with others as a story of what worked. I just don't like the idea that it's Mozza2.0's way or you're walking down a nice guy path that will be doomed.

Not all of my frustration is because of your thread. I am in general frustrated with the idea that we all have to go on this personal growth journey and upon completion we will have transcended our vices, compulsions, anxieties, etc, and be this new super race that is ready for a highly developed mature super-relationship that will be oh so fulfilling.

Trust me, I have grown a lot, and I think this is what DB is all about, and I love the path...but I am and never will be perfect, and I am not going to stamp out all of my fears, insecurities, and quirks. Someone is going to have to love me defective as I am, and the first person that has to is ME. The idea that I need to be some other way is my biggest hill to climb, I have worked very hard to learn to accept my flawed self, and the story that I have to be someone I'm not before I'll be able to live my life doesn't fit for me.

For thousands of years couples have stayed together when there were problems. I think the idea that we should eliminate all problems is not as healthy as the idea that we should stay together and navigate through our problems as a couple instead of bailing because our partners didn't upgrade to the latest software package 11.0 version of themselves.

Mozza, I'm not putting words into your mouth because much of this didn't apply to anything you said, I am just expressing why I'm so passionate about this topic.

You are the man though.

[Elly4]

Hi Matt!! Thanks for the update! I miss you but am so glad that you seem to be doing really well. Are you perfect, no, but none of us are.

Keep on being you!
E

[Vanilla]

I am with you Zues.

I am a one guy woman, one at a time. No dating until D, anyone I want to be with, would want me to be free in spirit to date. I am not until the ink is dry.

Then LRT all the way. I have asked Karma to mentor me through that phase as I love the way she has handled it.

V