Hi J thanks for dropping by.Things are good W and I talk on the phone daily while shes at the lake. She countinues to resurface from her MLC tunnel and were getting more and more comfortable and at ease with each other. I realize I can not rush her ,and either I wait her out or I don't ,but that is my decision. I laughed though she has all these plans to buy a "bigger better cabin" I mentioned that we should be happy with what we have (I am) and recieved no argument. I will not go into any more debt as that's a real stressor for me! My kids are in their "Big Money Years" right now so their keeping us broke Its money well spent though if it keeps them out of trouble!(and jail LOL!) I'm at the lake till the middle of august so will up date when I get the chance (no TV or computer at the cabin just good old paperbacks) C.
Well back from my months holiday at the lake had a real relaxing holiday. W phoned nearly everyday and we had some great conversations. She seems to be very close to me when shes away from me but that little wall reappears when were physically close to each other. I mentioned this to her and she said she considers me a really good friend (an up grade from just friends I guess HA!) I really do feel she would love to have this plutonic relationship for ever, funnily enough she often brings up sex (I think they are some issues there) I've told her I'm OK with this arrangement for now but not forever! Also we had a very civil conversation yesterday regarding her returning to her family in England which I support if that is what she needs to do and I told her so, I also mentioned that she needed to deal with her issues not just acknowledge that she has them ,and that she should really think about wether she would any better off if she was some were else at this time in her life? The ball is in her court we will see what she does with it , 20 months since the bomb, the saga continues!!! C.
Good to see you back, c! Hope your vacation was enjoyable!
Quote: I also mentioned that she needed to deal with her issues not just acknowledge that she has them
You sound like you've been able to bring up some good stuff with W. How did she react to this? Was she agreeable? I know that my W in the past acknowledged that she had stuff to work on. In fact, she still says that. And that she is. But it doesn't change her feelings towards me. Of course, that could be because she is not truly working on those things. Someone told me that professional help is the only thing that would help her.....
Thanks for dropping by J I don't know if professional counseling would help I think it would probably drag up to many painfull issues for her it would take years to accomplish anything I think. We saw a M counsellor years ago (I loved it) she hated it (it was her suggestion)maybe she thought the C would kick my butt LOL but there's that thing called objectivity ha! Her thing is denial, it probably kept her sane growing up as there was some nasty stuff happening so it was a protective mechanism. She is starting to read a lot and I thing that is helping her I must be very carefull with my input as she resents some of my suggestions from the past (such as the use of meds)but every once in a while she allows me a gentle nudge. I'm not a religous man, but I thank god for this BB and it's inhabitants, for the knowledge and support I have recieved here, with out it my family I'm sure, would have been in a truly nast place right now! C.
Good to hear, C, that your W is reading....maybe the first step in her recovery. You are wise not to push her too fast. From what I understand, she will have to decide on her own to get help. Same with my W. Unfortunately, she surrounded herself with people who think she is fine just the way she is. But they, too, will be left behind one day...
If your W had some sexual abuse problems in the past, I am told that intensive therapy is almost a must. It will be painful to her...but she will never be happy unless she can go thru it.
Well we continue to make progress all though very slowly (it is progress). Had a few mini talks this weekend and I'm feeling good about them, I hope W is. She appears to be coming out of her MLC tunnel, it,s been 20 months since the bomb I'm hoping she will recommit to our R I'm guardedly optomistic! We relate so much better on so many different levels now it's great. I've made it clear as well that if we were to seperate it would be amicable (because life is to short to waste on bitterness and anger )but not to expect for me to be readily available (for a phone call, chat, ect)as I am now. I've also made it clear that I will be looking for another R (when I'm ready emotionally) as I'm to young and healthy to give up sex at 46! This has all been addressed very calmly and maturely so as not to come across as a threat. It's funny I feel closer to my W now than I ever have and heaven help me if I ever take her for granted again. I realize our M may not make it but I'm in alot better place now than I was 20 months ago. It amazes me when I look back and see what a mess my M was and how brutal my R skills were. DBing has taught me to be a better, kinder, wiser, more tolerant person and to realize I'm human I'm not perfect but I have the ability to work on my flaws and over come my anxities. J thanks for stopping by I know you've got a lot on your plate right now hope things are going well. Don't know if my W issues are of the abuse nature but there is alot of emotional baggage there. C.
Well just lost lengthy post so I'll try again. Baby steps continue to be made, started house renovations on the weekend (again) and W got immediately frustrated at the progress (only six more weeks to go Ha!) She was looking for a target (me) but I refused to take the bait and we ended up having a very constructive conversation which twenty months ago would have been a verbal brawl. She feels I'm to critical of her (I don't think I am) but I just listened and when she finished I apologized and told her that I actually "thought the world of her" which seemed to have caught her off guard. There's less and less finger pointing and a lot more support coming from both sides these days and that's great. I asked her if maybe it was a self esteem issue as opposed to me being critical and she appeared to ponder that. It's funny she's a beautifull, fit , smart, creative person on the outside but inside there are some demons at work. J she made no comment I've made comments in the past regarding the one sideness of our R and she acknowledged that saying I was the taker for years (and I probably was)and now it's her turn. She realizes that I will not go on like this for ever though. More and more of our friends continue to split up it seems to be epidemic for people in their fourties will our M be one more of those trashed , only time will tell. It's been in the ninetys for three weeks (so no snow ha!) good thing my igloo has central air LOL! C.
I wander around the boards some, mostly posting on Midlife Crisis and Surviving the Bid D.
Hi Jorge, I see you are staying in touch with C regularily, I consider that a sign of friendship and concern.
C, I an only offer you my observations, having come out of two marriages, both ex-wives having suffered from childhood sexual abuse.
First off, your wife is reading... that is good in that she is trying to gain understanding.... she is a seeker now, not a runner.
What she is reading may be important.... there are good books out there for survivors of childhood abuse.
There are also excellant books out there for spouses of abuse victims. ( HINT TO YOU) ( I would recommend "Haunted Marriages" but it is out of print)
Consider this: Without a neutral, impartial, understanding listener... which is what a therapist is supposed to be..... most victims of life trauma end up coping with it by shutting down emotionally.... and by extension,physically.
This applies not just to sex abuse, but any kind of trauma. Even survivors of airplane crashes have to deal with "survivor's guilt".
Your wife is shutting you out emotionally, and physicaly, to protect her fragile hurting psyche.
How to deal with that?
You cannot help her, she is the only one that can help herself.
She needs, but doesn't want, help.
She thinks she will deal with this on her own, yet it will likely result in something that is very like the state you are currently in.... a stalemate. She can drift into a state of "not thinking about it"... and going on indefinity.
Isn't this how she was operating for some years before this last crisis?
She can continue to be in a marriage to you, , but she will not be able to share a marriage bed with you.
she shows this now in that she can deal with you from a "safe" distance.( telephone, and at a distance)
She likely can deal with her "abuser" from a "safe" distance as well.
Until ( unless) she manages to find the courage to face her past, and deal with her emotions, she will likely retreat from any kind of emotional connection to you.
I will state the folowing thoughts in several ways, hopefully you will understand: It is likely her emotions she is running from.... it is likely "how she feels around you" that she is running from. It is likely that she thinks that "you make me feel this way!" (In reality, you have done nothing extraordinary, you are just behaving normally, and yet she over-reacts and can accuse you of doing something intentionally so that she is not having to take responsibility for her own actions)
DBing is about perceptual changes..... changing your own perceptions about yourself, and about others, and about life .
Perceptions can be tricky... you may think things are hopeless when they are not, or you may think things are going well when they are not!
You may see something as a positive baby step, or you may see something as lacking in sincerity and care.
You may see someone that you want to spend the rest of your sexless life with, or you may see that person as wounded and unable to meet your basic needs and so unworthy of you continued support.
If you would have known that your wife would be like this, would you have married her?
If she would have known how you'd be, would she have married you?
You both did the best you could, back then. Given what you knew, and the skills you had in coping and decision making, you honestly did your best to make a go of it.
Perhaps marriage was a bigger project, a far more technical, and difficult effort than you had at first imagined.
Perhaps your wife thought that you'd understand and accept her without condemnation.
Perhaps she hoped that you would not bring up the past.
"the guilty run, even when no one is pursuing"
She cannot outrun her past, as it lives inside her. she needs to understand that it lives with her, even if she wants it to live somehwere else.
She has to come to terms with her past, and learn to live on in spite of its continued presence.
It is like a scar, you cannot remove a scar without the potential for creating a bigger one.
you learn to live with a scar.
and the greatest people learn to see how there can actually be positives in scars. they show that a person survived, and became stronger. and they can show other people their scars without shame.
As long as she feels shame and guilt, she has given her power away to someone else.
and she likely resents anyone and anything that reminds her of it.
You, my friend, have to make up your mind what you want to do.. you have made many positive changes, and learned many lessons,
My only question for you is this: have you only given up what you didn't need to continue life in happiness? Or did you give up too much?
What is the cost to you for staying in this relationship?
If you decide to stay in a sexually barren, emotionally explosive, and communicatively challanged relationship, well so be it. Later on, you cannot blame your partner if you find yourself needing sex,emotional connection, and communication but not getting anything like that from your partner.
I really like what one person recently said on another Board, maybe there are so many divorces because there are too many marriages....
But once in a marriage you have to work your way through it, or earn your way out of it.
Yes, I tend to be lengthy, but I only ask you to consider these words...
I am not asking you to accept them.
They are only my opinions.
one other opinion I can share, the five love languages won't be of much help to you... your wifes languages are hidden under layers of guilt.... she may be a "toucher", but cannot allow herself to be touched after her injury.
And as for what sdhe may have done 18 months ago to induce guilt.... it likely isn't much. what more than likely happened was that 18 months ago, her old guilt resurfaced, and she is too hurt by it now to face it. Old guilt is just as powerful as new guilt.
I will only say this: I can attest to that last opionion from my own experience.
But it is worth it, isn't it?
It's a cool 85 F here today. Getting ready for the beach on Thursday.....
Paul