I know there are no guarantees but.....

[XFit14]

Mozza, I re-read something I wrote above and wanted to clarify. I said I am being very honest and open and that is NOT my normal character. Let me correct that. I am not usually very especially about my personal life and especially with people I don't know.

This is partly just the way I am and partly due to what I do. Just wanted to clarify. As for honesty....I don't get along with liars at all.
I hope you understood what I meant but couldn't hurt to clarify.

So I am still reading your story and WOW you get some great advice from 25yearsmlc. Here is a question for you if you don't mind.

You are lucky (???) enough to have some interaction with your wife. (Keep in mind I am not all the way through your story so if this has changed I apologize. I am in the third string and the issue is around the stroller and your just having received email confirmation of OM (Sorry to hear that bro))

So....with some interaction(S) it gives you the opportunity to show her with your actions, because they speak louder than words, that you are changed or changing or better or the original guy she fell in love with. One or all.

So what do you do in my situation when my wife is not making any contact, emails, phone calls, texts...nothing? Is my situation easier or harder? Better or worse. She hasn't confirmed OM and I haven't asked.

We haven't spoken since Monday when we got divorced and with her already having OM spend the night with my 16 yr old stepson there ..... well its not like she is trying to hide it. Based on what 25years has said in your posts....that cant be good for me and my hopes ....

Anyone??
Life preservers??

[Mozza]

As I wrote before, what you need is patience. Then again, you're at the beginning, so you want technical advice, concrete steps to take so let me be clearer for you.

If you are to R with your WW, it will take 1-2, perhaps 3 years according to the success stories. See what I mean by patience? If I tell you that your package will arrive in two years, will you sit by the mailbox watching the road for the mailman? No, you will go one with your life. That's what you need to do now.

So, no contact. How will your WW see your changes? She will because there are multiple channels of communications between you that you're not aware of. You might meet her on the street: if you've taken the habit of dressing better for instance, she will notice (this happened to me 3 days ago). Your SS16 will also be a channel, every now and then. You might have other opportunities, such as more trouble with FIL that will put you in touch. She might end up calling you. Keep reading mt sitch (lots of fantastic advice by an all-star team of vets) and you'll see that I have actually reduced our communications to almost nothing, at my own initiative.

If it looks like you are trying to communicate with her, it won't be convincing. She has to see you when you think she's not watching. She knows you're trying to convince her to R, so she sees everything you do in front of her as manipulative. So that's why eventually your changes will have to be for yourself, regardless of what she wants. You have to become attractive to her again.

Regarding patience, keep in mind that tomorrow is not like today. She does not contact you today, but you don't know how it will be in a few days. You just don't. Accept this. A few years ago, you wouldn't have expected a D, yet here you are. So who knows what tomorrow brings? Stop projecting today onto tomorrow. It's partly what brought us here.

I don't know if it will get to you this time because we've sort of told you a few times. It's ok to ask, don't apologize. But really try to understand that your next step is to take away the focus from your WW, back onto yourself. You choose what you need and want to change, to improve, and you get to work. You need to GAL a lot to get over the pain. Do stuff that you love. Think of what you're now free to do, perhaps stuff you put on the ice. This is harder than it seems because you have your habits and some things are just forgotten. It will take months to rediscover what you really love. I remember having some existential crisis in the bedding section of a chain store because I didn't know what my taste were and what were those of WW. It's been almost eight months and I'm not even completely there yet.

By the way, you should add you age and that of your WW in your signature (eg: M22 W21). The code for your stepson is SS16. Also, the length of the relationship (eg: T16) and the marriage (eg: M8). Of course, you can remove "yesterday" from your signature. No need for the days, they just obscurce. So it would be "D 2015-04"

[Mozza]

Don't discredit the whole profession of IC because you've had two disappointing experiences. My IC has been tremendously helpful to me and a lot of what I share here are actually insights that he helped me find. At first, I was like you and seeking technical advice: What do I DO now to win her back? I thought it would last a few weeks or months. Ha! But my IC is from the psychoanalytic branch, that's the one often caricatured saying "Hm hm" while the client is lying down on a chair. So it takes much longer, but it goes much deeper. Your comments about honesty are probably very genuine to you. You'll wonder how they can even be questioned. But what we're trying to help you identify here are the deeper currents that guide your thoughts and actions. Some things will never reach your conscious mind because they are too uncomfortable. I know that my IC often makes me realize that I'm saying the opposite of what I do, or what I think. My thoughts appear very clear to me, until he points at these contradictions. I often come back from my sessions with some basic ideas shaken to their core.

Google "This is water David Foster Wallace" and look for the Vimeo link (sorry, Cadet no longer lets us link from here). I think it might help you a little to take distance from your own thoughts and perceptions. As George Orwell said: "To see hat's in front of one's nose needs a constant struggle."

[XFit14]

I haven't posted in a few days. I have been having an extremely rough time. I haven't gotten any messages from anyone on here in a few days either so maybe because I am now divorced I should move on since I didn't bust my divorce.

I have been dealing with this since October 2014, separated since end of Jan beginning of Feb 2015 and divorced last Monday. I am probably worse now since that day and on top of that I am pretty sure she has already moved on with someone else and isn't exactly hiding it.

I can't help wondering what is going through her hear, if she has ant regrets, if she is ok, if this is just a fling or rebound . . . . . and many more things I know I should be detatching from and not worrying about etc.

I can't help it and I am sure I am not the only one on here. If we didn't want or SO, W, H, BF, GF back we wouldn't be here. I have read almost all the way through Mozza's story and he has been getting great advice from 25yearsmlc. (I would love for her to give my story a read through). In turn Mozza and Cadet and SANDI2 (thank you all) have been helping me and I promise its not that I am not getting it Mozza.
I understand....I sit here and tell myself it is her loss. But that doesn't help when I think that someone else is spending Sunday sitting on the couch with Breakfast burritos and watching a marathon of Netflix like we did some weekends.

How do you move on from those thoughts yet remain hopeful that she might re-fall in love with the guy she was married to for the past almost 8 years. How do you NOT worry that some other guy has taken YOUR place in her life, on her couch, in her house and in her bed?!?!? How do you not worry that some other guy is replacing you in your SS life??

And what's the point of being patient over a possible 1-2-3 year period while she appears to have moved on immediately....

I'm just way down the past few days due to what happened earlier in the week.....

IS anyone still out there or did I run everyone off?

[XFit14]

SANDI2...from a woman's perspective that has been there....wtf is she thinking? Is the pool guy really a better choice than me for her, her life, her house, her bed and my SS??

[Sotto]

Hi Xfit, I'm here! I'm so sorry you're having a rough time, and I can truly understand it. Your sitch has progressed relatively fast, and there's a lot to process there. It sounds as though you have many feelings about the recent D, your XW, what may be happening and so on, which isn't surprising.

Without looking back, I'm not sure what support you may have had in recent months. Have you seen an IC at all? Or been involved in a support group or similar? At the moment, I'm looking into the Divorce Recovery Workshop. I'm in the UK, and the workshop is run by local volunteers, all of whom have been through a relationship break up. I sent off the enquiry form yesterday, and got a call from a friendly woman today who told me all about it and emailed some details. It sounds good I think.

You may not be in the UK, but I think the DRW format may be a global thing. I have heard of them being run in the US for example, if that's where you are. My local group have run 20 workshops each for 10 people over the past 10 years. From the 200 people who have gone through it, 130 remain on their mailing list and come to regular events they organise - wow!

You mention being patient in respect of your W, but TBH I would put the emphasis on you here, and focus on healing yourself and moving forward. You may not yet be ready to move on completely and give up hope. But that doesn't mean you need to put your own life on hold in any sense. If your XW has any second thoughts, she'll reach out for sure. Good luck with your journey and keep posting.

Posters like Dawn are posting after D, and I think it's great for you to stay on the site. As Wonka recently said, if you're still growing and learning, you're in the right place!

Take care, Toots :-)

[bravo61]

X,
I feel your pain. Truly I do. Yes, right now that is how she feels. My XW told me that she would rather be the crazy lady with cats than be with me. She also said that she would never go out with me again. But we went out a couple of times alone before the D and had a great time. She even came over a couple of times after D to drink wine and watch tv with me.

Of course now she thinks I'm the devil and that I somehow control my kids brains because they want us back together.

Point is, you have to accept that what is happening right now you can't change. The best you can do is not make it worse. But the good and scary thing about the future is that we don't know what it holds.

Praying for you.

[XFit14]

Thanks Toots I appreciate you messaging me and I actually just read a few of your messages to another guy that she started posting in the last few days.

I know I am supposed to be here for me and I need to be working on myself. Its not that I don't get that. I guess what I am having trouble with is how easy it all seems for her to move on....especially given what we went through together.
Do vows and promises and dreams and goals not mean anything anymore??
Does, "He stood by me through all of this I can't leave him." ever come into a woman's mind? She KNOWs I wasn't going anywhere.
And again....I know what you and some others have said that if I am learning I should remain here but I just feel like....like people read the story and see that I am recently divorced and think....ok well that one is done and move on to the next person that is still on the brink. (I am not trying to be mean....to anyone....just thinking out loud in type)
I am learning things here but.....is it too late.....since the divorce is final

[Mozza]

It took her as long as it's taking you to detach, except she did it under your nose. Don't start counting in October, start counting much before that. And of course she's happy and moving on now right now (maybe less than it appears, but still). The only way that DB works is that later down the road she will realize what she's done and regret it. Maybe. But there's no guarantee. The only guarantee of results is the work you will do on yourself. What are you doing, now, to become a man only a fool would leave? That's your task now if you want to give your M a chance tomorrow.

And speaking of vows, what did it mean to you: "I promise to cherish, to love, and to worship"? Yes, she went too far, but don't be too self-righteous about it. Remember your part of the failings because that's what you can work on now.

Get over the fact that you are already divorced. Nobody here has made any mention that it's too late, except you. Cadet has repeated a few times that it's not over until you decide it is. Everybody who comes here for help gets it no matter what. We have people who were never married, some who were on poly-amorous relationships, etc.

Also, there are tens of people here and everybody is a volunteer, many still in the midst of the suffering. You are extremely lucky with all the attention you got so far. Many haven't been so lucky and some have been here for months without even input from the vets. Keep posting, and be grateful when anyone takes the time to respond. If no one comes, keep posting. Also, over time, start posting some support to others. This is a mutual support group.

I would encourage you to write shorter too. It makes it easier for people to follow your story. You an add details based on people's questions for instance.

Hang in there. We know it's not easy. How well we know.

[XFit14]

Mozza....your message hot at just the right time. I don't mean to sound....non appreciative. This week has just been really hard! Although I think I handled the actual D day well....everyday since then has been...an inner battle not to cry in public and to stop when I'm alone. Thank you for your continued support and occasional smack back to reality.