Devastated Husband; Need Advice...Part 2

[TLEE86]

Old thread locked out, honestly cant believe Im starting a 2nd thread. Pretty Naive to think that I would have this all solved already.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...987#Post2521987

Last Post

Just got off with my DB Coach again tonight, what great timing following yesterdays slip up. I love talking to these ladies, so helpful and encouraging.

Some notes I took down from what she told me.

Boundaries

WRT my boundary I set today regarding $, I need to truly enforce that when the time comes. Lovingly and kindly enforce that boundary of finances. I will help you W and I am here for YOU but i don't want to be in the position to help you AND OM. I will not pay for his bills. I need to convey to her that I will help her out, and do what I can to help HER but draw the line to where it is not going to OM

Other Notes

- IOT connect emotionally, we have to build trust, and create emotional safety through validation and empathy. STAY with her feelings.

- Continue this validation statement I have been saying: I have no doubt about your talents and intelligence W. I know you will be successful. I have absolute faith in you. You know that. (I actually truly mean this but never conveyed it to her. This will keep being a 180 from her not feeling as an equal to me)

- For my sitch: Although it is advocated here by many to be selective in responses to W, because her complaint was that I was never emotionally and mentally there, that would be more of the same. Our communication has increased, so I need to continue doing what I am doing. Respond to her when she reaches out to me. Keep talking to her. It is a GOOD THING when she keeps wanting all this contact with me.

Validating Her Feelings if the opportunity arises
- It makes me feel sad when you say there is no future. It hurts me to know I have hurt you, and I have not been there to support you and encourage you. Instead Ive been critical and rejecting. It just hurts me to have hurt you like that and I am sorry.

I encourage you guys to do this exercise and develop your own course of action. It is really enlightening, at least for me.

How would she describe you
Tim is very determined and knows exactly what he wants. He always has a plan. But he can get very controlling sometimes to get what it is he wants. When he is happy, he is very thoughtful and kind and does all the little things I like. When he is unhappy, he becomes extremely self-centered and focused only on himself.

*Course of Action: No matter what my mood is, I need to convey and continue to be consistent in my actions and how I treat W. To continue to make her feel special.

This is probably why my Christmas gift went over so well. It made her feel special and was just a small token of what she meant to me even though we are going through these difficult times. I showed I thought of her no matter how sad I was. This was a 180 that I just realized I did unintentionally. Showing her I care about her, no matter my own feelings.

What frustrates her about you
He doesn't treat me like he used to. He used to do the most thoughtful, sweetest things in the world for me before we got married and he came home from Afghanistan. All I looked forward to was re-living the times we had before he left for his deployment, and there was a huge build up that came crashing down because when he came home, it was no longer about me and the marriage, but about him.

What she thinks you think of her
I think he thinks I am a Trophy Wife sometimes. He likes to show me off to his friends but sometimes doesn't let me be who I am and have to be someone I am not. I think he does love me very much but my personality that he used to love so much, seemed to have bothered him this past year. I think he doesnt think of me as an equal because I dont work and I dont go to school so I dont bring anything to the marriage. This is something that I struggled with my whole life, and when he argues with me and he becomes possessive of everything in the house, it makes me feel even less of an equal

What is the most painful thing to her about what you do
The most painful thing is that he stopped treating me like he used to. He started taking me for granted because we are married and he “got me.” He no longer treats me like he could lose me. (I know better now…).

*Course of Action: Continue to EMPATHIZE with her and VALIDATE her. Make her feel like she is admirable, and loved. To let her know she has many talents and will be successful. That I have FAITH in her.

---Bottom line...DB continues to see a lot of hope and promise in my sitch. Regardless of my little screw up yesterday. DB Coach saying that there is just a lot of hurt in W because her expectations were so high, especially when I returned from deployment, and I let all of them down and became a different person. EA with OM...I need to disregard as much as possible. Control ME and keep doing what I am doing. It was working. PATIENCE....is continuing to reach new levels by the second.

Thanks for reading everyone...I am really thankful for you guys. Don't know how I would get through this without you all.

[TLEE86]

Happy New Year everyone, hope you guys had a good time celebrating the New Year last night. Unfortunately, I was so tired from work that I didn't make it to midnight but thats ok.

It's been a couple days since I finally had the $ talk with W. Things have been...tense...the past few days after that convo but I know it was necessary...For a long time we have been very friendly and having daily interactions, and I didn't want to rock the boat but I couldn't continue to fund her adventures while she continues to stay at OM apartment...it just...makes zero sense.

Now she is actively and seems to actually be trying to look for her own apt. Since she's left, she's always wanted to get her own place, but now that I've told her I wont support her financially as long as she stays at OM place, its pushing her to look much harder because she won't have $ anymore.

This is a really tricky situation because as you guys are reading this...my boundary is essentially: "If you stay at OM place, I won't support you financially. If you get your own place, I am willing to help you out."

Here's the thing as I have mentioned already. The Army REQUIRES me to give her $. Technically even if she stays at OM place, I am supposed to give her $. But I won't, because again, it makes no sense.

Also, W does not have the $ or credit to sustain her own place. She does not make very much $, and has "young credit (she's only 24)" and won't get approved anywhere. If she really is to get her own place, I am fairly certain I have to help in some way.

Obviously, the ultimate goal is that as long as she is not actively working on the M, she receives no financial help. But right now I feel that getting her out of OM place is a better option than cutting her off completely, and forcing her to stay at OM apt because she has no $ to go anywhere else...

Idk, I struggle with this. Thoughts? What do you think is the best option, helping her get her own place (about an hour away from OM apt), or cutting her off completely and forcing her to stay at OM apt because she doesn't have the $ or credit to get her own?

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Something else that bothers me, I think a lot of WAS do this, but my W likes to threaten me with D when things don't go her way. When she first left, every time she would get mad, shed threaten D and when she calmed down, she stopped threatening it. We haven't mentioned D since week 2 of this, but all of a sudden when I tell her I won't help her $ wise anymore, she starts to say "oh well then i might as well file for D because then you won't have to worry about $ anymore." And I ask her if thats what she really wants to do, and she says no, but it seems like it would help you out.

All she's doing is trying to guilt trip me. And all I say back is "you know i don't want to divorce you, from the bottom of my heart i don't. But if thats what you want to do, I won't stand in your way."

Because its true. I don't want a D. But I don't think she is actually wanting to file, but threatening me with D is the only thing she "has over me."

Just irritating. If you're gonna threaten me with it, then put your $ where your mouth is. Otherwise, shut up.
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One last thought for the morning. I was thinking about this in the shower yesterday. But since when did H/W's start thinking it is ok to be with other people, whether EA ,PA or both, when they are still married. Like when did that become a thing? So many stories on here, where WAS are in an active on-going A, but still expect their LBS to be a good person to them? Something is seriously wrong with that logic...

My Course of Action for now? Let the dust settle again. W is actively looking for her own apt, but I need to back off again and let things calm down. I have a feeling that in a week or so, things will be "normal" again between us. Also re-read 37rules and select parts of DB. Continue 180s. Work is going to seriously pick up again next week so enjoying the downtime i have now. Thanks for reading ya'll

[HPoirot]

Hello TLEE86. You might already know my opinion is to cut her off completely either way. This is her decision in her life to leave you and not act like your W. She doesn't get you or your benefits. It is hard yes... my W will likely lie and stay with OM instead of her aunts like she says she will until she gets her own place. That is good info for me b/c now I know not to spend much time or mental energy on her. And it will make D easy for me when it comes.

Also, yes my W threatened S whenever I acted up or got mad. She backed down every time. It was a defense b/c she had no idea what she was doing and she needed to stay with me to live comfortably.

Even now, after I left, she complains that she wanted us to S the whole time to make it easier... like I had to give her permission. I saw someone somewhere else printed state divorce docs and left them where the WAW could see them. Shook her up enough to bring her around to R. Maybe I should have done that.

You could even say in response to her threat "Let me know when you file so I can plan."

[sandi2]

This is a really tricky situation because as you guys are reading this...my boundary is essentially: "If you stay at OM place, I won't support you financially. If you get your own place, I am willing to help you out."

Here's the thing as I have mentioned already. The Army REQUIRES me to give her $. Technically even if she stays at OM place, I am supposed to give her $. But I won't, because again, it makes no sense.

Why would you set a boundary that you can't keep? If the military requires it, won't that over-ride your preferences?

[TLEE86]

Sandi2, thank you for taking the time to read through my thread.

Yes.Technically the Army requires it and does override my preferences. But to be honest, I don't care. I will not fund her adventures if she continues to stay at OM place. If she decides to put up a fight, then I'll deal with it. But I won't do that anymore.

She is moving out, and spent the day (supposedly) looking for her own place. She will be moving out no later than FEB. I think she understands my position. I will help HER, as required by the Army, but not if she stays at OM place. I don't believe she will fight me on this.

[Calibri]

Again, how long are you going to fund the other place?

I don't think you should fund her at all, although I understand the army requires you to do so, and she could make trouble for you if you don't.

But what kind of message are you sending to her if you fund her path to "discovering herself"? If she wants to be independent, she should be independent in the sense that she gets a roommate, gets a second job, sells plasma, etc to make ends meet. It sounds like she went from her parents house, to being married, to getting divorced to getting married to you. Has she ever had to take care of herself? If not? Now's the prime to learn, just like everyone else on this board has had to learn. She isn't going to become self sufficient and achieve her dreams if you're funding her to keep her from falling on her face. She wanted out, she's out. Let her figure it out on her own - like do you pay the electric bill or the car insurance with what little money you have left and it's a week before pay day.

Using money as a bribe to get her out of the OM's house is simply that. A bribe. So, she moves out of OM's house? What's to stop her from contacting him? To keep on conversing? Is she going to resent you because you forced her hand? Is the absence going to make the heart grow fonder?

Either way, you're Either, enabling her or trying to manipulate her and I think both choices have the potential to rear back and gouge your eyes out.


And yes, my H early into this told me if I didn't STFU that he was going to file for divorce. My smart ass (before I knew about DB) told him that it was childish to threaten me into submission and that he should brush up on our states laws about D because there was a waiting period for filing. And since he clearly didn't know what the hell he was talking about? Not to threaten me with something he couldn't back up.

Ironically, he stopped that [censored] after that conversation.

[TLEE86]

C- thanks for the check in, I will respond shortly, just had something come up that actually goes along with a lot of what you are saying.

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So since we've had that $ talk, W has said things feel weird between us and there is distance. Here's just a few main points from text convo this morning...

Me: W, why do you think things are weird between us?

W: Because I don't know what to talk about with you, just like you have things going on in your life and things you worry about that you don't tell me, so do I and that creates distance.

Me: I don't tell you things because you don't ask. And the few times you do ask and I tell you, you ignore what I have to say.

W: I don't ask because I don't want to know about your life there. I didn't say I don't wanna know because I don't care. I don't want to know because I don't want to know about something I was going to be apart of but aren't. I don't tell you things because you cant relate and its all negative so I feel there is no point

W: I'm stressed about my future, making it on my own right now, finding a place I feel good about that I can afford, if I need to find a weekend job, how to ever go to school, have time for the dog, if I want to add a second job. I hate that it seems like you never have to struggle and why you always have everything come so easy to you. You never have to worry about anything and if you wanted you could be set for the rest of your life and I don't feel like I'll ever get that. So no, you cant relate

Me: I will email/text you in a little bit W, and I can understand why you feel that way. I want to put some thought into what you said because it means a lot to me.
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First, I'm going to pat myself on the back for not responding right away to her last comment because I really do need to think about this one and not blurt out something.

My W has ALWAYS felt the need to compare herself to me, and compare herself to ALL of our friends and has always felt inferior to them on a...education/work/life experience level. I used to do a good job making her feel better but I failed at that over time. When I got angry, everything became MINE, so obviously she didn't feel like an equal.

W would say things like...you've done so much in your life- went to the Academy got your degree, deployed, went to XYZ Army Schools, and have your future set. Me (W), I have been a house wife for my entire life and don't have a degree, and have never held a stable job.

Again, a lot of this is by choice. I PUSHED HER to go to school, and ENCOURAGED HER (to an extent) to work. But it was HER CHOICE not to. This is why I keep saying that (and W agrees) a lot of this is about her. She is, IMHO, having a quarter century crisis, her own WTF am i doing with my life moment. Which is why she is so focused on now she is "FORCED" to work and go to school.

Her concerns are two parts: her own stuff, and how she thinks i don't worry or i am set

1. I don't know what to say to her first part. Sounds like she does have a lot going through her head. I am not sure if i just say "W, I completely understand you are concerned and stressed about your future. That is a lot to deal with. But I have complete confidence in you that you can do anything you put your mind to. Don't worry about Dog1, she will be fine, you know that. Just take her out when you have time"

My own thoughts? If she gets a weekend/2nd job, she will never have time for school. She barely has time for school now. Her day goes from 530am-615pm everyday and she just sleeps after. I have always encouraged her that she should just go to school w/o working, knock it out (she has maybe 1.5-2years left), and then get started on her career. I brought that up the other day, but she shot it down.

2. She thinks things come easy for me. REALLY? I never have to worry about anything. Thats what she really thinks? Guess its not surprising since she has thought that about me for our whole M. The last part, "my future is set" really gets me. Does she not realize that my W..my 2nd W who is the girl of my dreams...just left me? That we were supposed to be having kids right now and instead I'm worried about if were even going to be M?

I don't know what to say to this one. At all. I have had to work...so hard, that it cost me my M. Does she still not see that? No, she wasn't with me when I was at the Academy and got my degree. She doesn't know that I took 7 classes every semester, plus military crap everyday, and I graduated with over 165credits. Average college kid takes 3 classes a semester...but she doesn't know I struggled and almost didn't graduate from there.

Things have NOT come easy. The reason they seem easy to her now is because she doesn't realize what I gave up to make sure that WE, our family, would be able to be financially set. I did not want to work from 5am-830pm everyday. I did not (to an extent) want to really go to Airborne/Ranger/XYZ school, deploy for a year, and be gone from her for more than we were together. But I did it because it was my job and I was trying to provide for her (and be super awesome)

I want to be honest with her. I want to tell her the things that I struggle with right now (besides R/M stuff). I want to tell her what I just said. Things have not come easy. And I gave up everything to make sure that my W got the best that I could do for her. All that was missing, was for her to make her own happiness. Her own fulfillness. And my inability to communicate my stresses to her.

Thoughts? How should I answer her 2 concerns?

[Calibri]

W: I'm stressed about my future, making it on my own right now, finding a place I feel good about that I can afford, if I need to find a weekend job, how to ever go to school, have time for the dog, if I want to add a second job. I hate that it seems like you never have to struggle and why you always have everything come so easy to you. You never have to worry about anything and if you wanted you could be set for the rest of your life and I don't feel like I'll ever get that. So no, you cant relate

Ok, I've been where she's at. When H and I were in college -- his classes always seemed so much easier than mine, and he just (appeared) to be coasting along during his senior year, while I was writing massive papers each weekend. After we both graduated, he was getting job interviews left and right, while I had NOTHING. He also had the option of falling back on the family business which his parents wanted him to take over. I couldn't even get a call back for a retail job. I got into this mindset that he had it so much easier than I did -- and everything appeared to just come naturally for him. There literally, was nothing that he could say to make me feel better, because I (like I think your W) was caught up in my own insecurities and emotions.

W would say things like...you've done so much in your life- went to the Academy got your degree, deployed, went to XYZ Army Schools, and have your future set. Me (W), I have been a house wife for my entire life and don't have a degree, and have never held a stable job.

It's not your job to fix her insecurities.

Again, a lot of this is by choice. I PUSHED HER to go to school, and ENCOURAGED HER (to an extent) to work. But it was HER CHOICE not to. This is why I keep saying that (and W agrees) a lot of this is about her. She is, IMHO, having a quarter century crisis, her own WTF am i doing with my life moment. Which is why she is so focused on now she is "FORCED" to work and go to school.

Ok, you're boarding on the cusp of self righteousness. This is coming across as a bit demeaning, in some sense. YOU pushed her to go to school, encouraged her to work, but it was her choice not to, that this is all about her. Perhaps, did she choose not to go to school or work because she felt that she couldn't live up to your expectations or be your equal? That she has a smart husband who has a degree, deployed, (I'm assuming an officer), motivated, driven man. You said that in another thread, that you liked to show her off to your friends -- could she feel like she was supposed to assume the role of trophy wife and be at home? Or hell, maybe she just didn't want to?

1. I don't know what to say to her first part. Sounds like she does have a lot going through her head. I am not sure if i just say "W, I completely understand you are concerned and stressed about your future. That is a lot to deal with. But I have complete confidence in you that you can do anything you put your mind to. Don't worry about Dog1, she will be fine, you know that. Just take her out when you have time"

Yes. That.

My own thoughts? If she gets a weekend/2nd job, she will never have time for school. She barely has time for school now. Her day goes from 530am-615pm everyday and she just sleeps after. I have always encouraged her that she should just go to school w/o working, knock it out (she has maybe 1.5-2years left), and then get started on her career. I brought that up the other day, but she shot it down.

This is none of your business. Careful that your encouragement isn't bordering on controlling or making her feel like "husband knows best." Because, while you're giving her encouragement to her face (via text) you're doubting her behind her back here. You've got to let it go. If she wants to do school, second job, etc -- she's got to figure it out. You are her husband, not her father. Quit trying to solve her self imposed problems.

2. She thinks things come easy for me. REALLY? I never have to worry about anything. Thats what she really thinks? Guess its not surprising since she has thought that about me for our whole M. The last part, "my future is set" really gets me. Does she not realize that my W..my 2nd W who is the girl of my dreams...just left me? That we were supposed to be having kids right now and instead I'm worried about if were even going to be M?

I don't know what to say to this one. At all. I have had to work...so hard, that it cost me my M. Does she still not see that? No, she wasn't with me when I was at the Academy and got my degree. She doesn't know that I took 7 classes every semester, plus military crap everyday, and I graduated with over 165credits. Average college kid takes 3 classes a semester...but she doesn't know I struggled and almost didn't graduate from there.

Things have NOT come easy. The reason they seem easy to her now is because she doesn't realize what I gave up to make sure that WE, our family, would be able to be financially set. I did not want to work from 5am-830pm everyday. I did not (to an extent) want to really go to Airborne/Ranger/XYZ school, deploy for a year, and be gone from her for more than we were together. But I did it because it was my job and I was trying to provide for her (and be super awesome)

And this is where it becomes ME, ME, ME. Here's my tough love for the day. The way you're talking to us....is that how you talked to your wife? I understand where you're coming from, but from my perspective, it is chock full of superiority. I did this FOR YOU. I SACRIFICED this FOR YOU. You wanted to provide yourself and your wife an awesome life, but you're resenting her for it at the same time. Did she ever ask you to do these things? Did she want to have the same things that you did? Or did you assume that this is what she wanted, and provided it for her, and resented her in the process because giving her what you think she wanted came at your expense?

You obviously worked hard -- and I admire that. But you can't blame your W for the choices that YOU made, regardless if they were for her or not.

I want to be honest with her. I want to tell her the things that I struggle with right now (besides R/M stuff). I want to tell her what I just said.

God, no. Not the way you typed it. Perhaps a more slimmed down, modified version. PLEASE PLEASE type here before you send it to your W.

And I gave up everything to make sure that my W got the best that I could do for her.

Again, did she say to you, T -- I want you to give up everything so that I can have the best life possible. Really think about this.

[Sotto]

Great advice there from Calibri TLEE...food for thought.

I certainly wouldn't go there with the...I worked so hard & did it all for you etc..

My H has said some of this, but it was often his choice to take on challenging schedules etc. I would prefer that he hadn't, and spent more time at home.

Also, be careful with the 'I know what you should do' - I'm sure your W can sort herself out without the advice.

[jim0987]

Just want to add to the advice from calibri

I spent so much of my marriage patting myself on the back for having a good wage, supporting and encouraging my Wifes career, keeping us secure, getting tge bigger house she wanted, saving for the holidays she wanted etc. Etc. And if I'm honest I resented that it didn't seem enough for her

But I wasn't listening - that stuff was nice but she didn't ask for it, what she wanted was to be a SAHM with a husband who showed her and told her that he cared for her and would always support rather than railroad her

I wish I'd listened