Stimulus-Response: The Experiment Continues

[GoatGal]

Thanks, Ggrass and FY,


I am talking about exactly that.

I am NOT pursuing, just keeping up my end of what we have always done in our marriage.

It's a point of connection we still share, and one that he has been willing to continue.

As FY said, why shoot myself in the foot to undo that connection because I need to make him nervous about what I might be up to?

The guy is jumpy and nervous around me as it is.


Believe me, there's plenty of mystery surrounding the old GGG...

Right now I am away at a friend's house for the weekend, doing crazy fun girl stuff. H knows there are also three young guys who live in the house and that we all hang out, go dancing, do Karoake, crash all over the living room.

(Cheezz, I sound like I'm having a MLC! But it's just a swing dance thing, traveling on the cheap, crashing with other dancers. Beats a three hour drive home at 2 AM!)


The point is, he has always trusted me. I think this is why someone with abandonment and attachment issues was able to stay with me.
I was never going to hurt him...and he was right.

Now I HAVE hurt him. After BD and OW he saw a side of me he didn't know existed.
People won't ever see that side unless they cross me.
Well, he betrayed me worse than anyone in my life and I hurt him right back.

For a long time he was literally afraid to be around me.
I have to bury those memories with newer, better ones.

-----------------------------------

So I am open and honest, I am still me.
I mostly do not initiate anything, I'm busy and scarce.
But sometimes I throw him some kibbles.

That's the approach that seems to work best.
It's very open-ended, no expectations.

It's not chasing him--it's saying "I'm here, I'm still the person you knew (except better!) and I'm not going to hurt you."

That does NOT mean I will be here forever and I make that clear by my actions.
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Raine was compassionate and reassuring to her H when he was actively involved with OW in the depths if his crisis.
He needed her like a touchstone.
She couldn't fix him, but she was there.

My H is going through his crisis and has to get through it on his own.

I will not be his doormat nor allow him to cross my boundaries.
But I will be true to myself, my authentic self, and that includes being reliable, kind, vulnerable and open.

------------------------------

Meanwhile, I have had to endure an ongoing barrage from well-meaning friends about how I am "putting my life on hold" (not), "letting him make me miserable" (not-mostly), that I need to "move on" and "let him go" because I am "sad."


Ummm....hello? 30 year olds who have never married, owned a home, or built a life with someone?

Leaving my home and my husband will not make me "happy".

A divorce will not make me "happy".

I have explained until I'm blue in the face that I AM moving on emotionally, but I am not going to allow a crazy person to force me to move on physically until I HAVE to!

Do they really think that getting rid of my animals, moving out of my home, divorcing my best friend and partner of almost three decades, giving up my dream of a sustainable farm filled with rescued animals would make me "happy"???


I know I'm preaching to the choir here.
Thanks for listening.
I'm just a bit tired of defending my stance to people who clearly think I'm a wimp or fraidy-cat for not just dumping his ass.

I'm not in the least. This is my choice and aside from some off moments, I'm having a pretty great time!


So I guess today I'll give them more of my PMA and let them see more of that.
Maybe they'll get it, maybe they won't!


------GGG
On my phone down in Old Virginny!

[artsy]

Have you tried asking them to stop bringing it up? I laid that boundary back in January with the very few people who know my sitch. They have respected it- they let me bring up things if I want, otherwise they leave it alone.

If you're talking about it, then stop!

And, quite frankly, with our sitch's it's a lot more brave to "hang in there" than it is to cut-and-run. Now, when there comes a time to move on, then fear can hold you back, but you aren't there. Tell them to zip it!!!!

[GoatGal]

Thanks, artsy.

You're right.
And I DON'T talk about it, as a rule.

However, they see me, so thin, so clearly putting a happy face on things.

They see what H is blind to: A really great woman who is being worn down to a nub over this.

I get that they care about me, think GUBU is an asshat for what he's doing.
They don't understand what's happening and think it's an indicator of the man he "really" is... But they couldn't be more wrong.

I explained this to my best friend.
Although initially she was in the "he filed, best to get it over with" camp, now she understands.

Why should I make it easy for him?
Why should I uproot myself and lose my home and "family" because HE wants me gone?


Sorry, but there is no clause that says I need to cooperate with crazy.
None at all.

When the time comes, he will have to find the cojones to push a D through.
Or not.

Meanwhile, I am doing my utmost to hope for the best while preparing for the worst.
This is a far cry from clinging to his bootstraps, begging him not to leave, accepting any treatment just so he might "love" me!

I would hope my friends know me better than this...but in their well-meant lectures there is a finger-wagging of sorts...

You know what I mean, the "Why don't you just move on?" wag.
---------------------------

I believe he is in crisis.
And to be with me he will have to own his chit and be better.
WE would have to be better.

I am NOT giving him a free pass.
I simply keeping the door open should he decide to walk through it a better man and a better husband.

To me, the distinction is very important.

----GGG

[Shining]

GGG,

I completely know the "wag." And I don't see too many couple friends as often anymore. Not because I was uncomfortable, but because they were uncomfortable not knowing what to do or say. Or not do or not say.... It was easier for them to not see me.

And I didn't talk about it either. It was more, the "elephant in the room" thing.

I guess I got to the point that I stopped caring what they thought because their experience of me is about them, and their own past, and their own history, and how they apply my life to their world.....blech.... I'm applying the detaching technique everywhere!

[LoisB]

I guess I got to the point that I stopped caring what they thought because their experience of me is about them, and their own past, and their own history, and how they apply my life to their world.....blech.... I'm applying the detaching technique everywhere!

^^^^^^^^This deserves some props. Awesome insight and beautifully expressed Shining. :-)

[Ggrass]

Yeah, opinions are like a$$holes every one has one and it usually stinks!

Or like armpits people usually have two and they stink!

Either either! Lol

[GoatGal]

Shining,

I love that too!

I think you put it very well.

I got another earful last night at 2 AM.
I didn't even bring it up, just laughed at the snippy text I got from GUBU when I said we were going to be out tearing it up at Karoake, doing "Rock and Roll High School" from the Ramones.

H: "Really."
"Well."
"I'm glad I made it so you could have so much fun."
"Good night."
(Sure sounded huffy to me. Guess he's not having any fun or something!)


Anyhow, I wasn't upset, just saying exactly that ^^^ and chuckling.
(I guess merely mentioning him is enough to prove I'm hopelessly "stuck"!
And I only mention him in ways like this. Eye-rolling, "Mr. GUBU strikes again, sort of thing, maybe twice a day if he texts or something.)

Honestly, my one friend wouldn't drop it late last night until I finally broke down in tears.
I finally made it stop by saying:

"What I need from you as my friend is ACCEPT that I am an adult and I am capable of making decisions about what is best for ME."

" You just have to trust that I know what I'm doing and give up on trying to fix it for me. You can't and I can't. And walking away from my life at this point would add MORE stress, not reduce it."

"I know you care about me and it's hard to see me in pain, it means a lot that you are trying to help. But the best way to help me is to support me and allow me to work through this in the way that's best for me."

Cue tears.
Cue group hug.

Please no more of this today...

A little too much "togetherness" for me at this point.

------------GGG

[BrightFuture]

GGG, I get this all the time from my friends when I feel sad, or look sad, or say that I’m sad. One of my GF’s went through D herself and just recently considered a crazy idea to reconnect with her XH, who is re-married BTW and who treated her like a piece of sh!t before and continues to do it. Even then she keeps telling me this words: “how long are going to be practicing masochism and inflict the pain on yourself, you need to get it over with by divorcing him”.

My other friends ask me if have a boyfriend already every time I see them. I just laugh at that, but I really starting to irritate me. I think I’m finally ready to tell them to back off.

I’m on the same page as you. I want my H to find a courage to file for D (he hasn’t even filed yet), if this is what he wants. And I’m not going to make it easy for him.

I simply keeping the door open should he decide to walk through it a better man and a better husband.

These are the exact thoughts I’ve been having recently. Even though I’m my hope for that is rapidly dwindling.

You are handing this very well. I love to read your posts. You have such in insight and a great ability to express your thoughts and feelings.

[GoatGal]

Well, I managed to keep any conversation away from my sitch for the rest of my "Girls' Weekend".

Meanwhile, I was subjected to discussion "ad infinitum" about this pretty boy and that who might or might not turn into the romance of the decade...
And pictures. And MORE pictures...

Yup. And they're giving me advice.
Thanks, but no thanks. I think I have a LOT more experience in this area.
After all, GUBU was hardly my first...
------------------------------

Anyhow, I've had some interesting observations to enter into my Experiment Log:

Up until now, I was pretty much blindly following the DB/Sandi's rules assuming this practice was working to my benefit.

In hindsight, I think 90% of it was extremely helpful, 10%, not so much.

Now that DBing is getting easier and I don't have to focus so intensely on MY end of things, I am able to be more observant of GUBU and his reactions.

Here's what I've noticed:

1. When I end first/walk away first... this seems to come across as rejection and shuts him down.
I've replayed a few conversations where it sounds as though I've shut the door on further contact:
"Well, talk to you tomorrow, I guess. Bye."
"Is there anything else? I've got ---blank---to do." (Walking away)

Now I see where he would have kept it going had I not shut the door in his face.
We're having a nice chatty phone conversation and I'm thinking, "End this first!", so I sort of shut down and sign off...
It was only later that I realized I was shutting it down, NOT him.
I think he'd keep it going but for the fact that he believes I don't want to.

So I'll have to play with this and see if it changes.
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2. He is acting as though I have DUMPED HIM.
So much of how he's acting is saying that I have rejected him... and he's just making the best of it.
I don't think he has the guts to ask anything of me, ask to come home, hang out, or anything.
When I think back over a lot of our interactions, I can see where his confidence has taken a nosedive.
This has been compounded by my GALing where he may be under the impression that I am involved with someone else, or that I will be soon.
(Not.)

In our previous R, I was always independent, busy, had my own friends and my own fun. So this is not a 180 for me. IT's MORE OF THE SAME.

I have to be careful that I don't give the impression that he's irrelevant.
Because he's not.
I honestly think I'm coming across as intimidating and unattainable.
Especially in his lowly state.
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3. I keep thinking back to my mother and when she was in a severe depression.
She was irrational, suspicious (accused me of stealing her old tea towels, among other things), and she was generally miserable.
One thing that stands out is that whenever I was around her and started laughing and having fun with one of her Aides, she would SHUT IT DOWN.
She'd do something to interrupt us, get the focus back on her... clearly she couldn't handle other people being happy and upbeat.
It literally P*SSED HER OFF!

I see the same with GUBU.

He's not happy. He's lonely.
And even though on some level he must know intellectually that I'm really struggling here, it STILL makes him MAD if he knows I'm having some fun in my life.
It makes no sense, but it's true.
The happier I get, the more resentful he becomes.

So I will continue to detach and GAL and have fun, but just scale back on how much I let him know about it. I don't need to rub his nose in it.

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4. When I keep the door open, H seems more comfortable stepping through it.
This last weekend he was sending me cute pics of our animals, letting me know what he was doing, I was validating his efforts, keeping the lines open.
As soon as I shut him down (ending first) he just drops off the radar.
It's as if he has no right to ask anything of me, to be in my life, so he takes his cues from me and just doesn't even bother.

I think at this point, cake-eating isn't as much of a concern as losing the connection we do have.
He is doing nothing horrible that I have to turn my back on him for.

Although I don't want to be in the "friend zone" forever, if he doesn't feel comfortable around me as a friend now, if he doesn't spend quality time with me, how will he ever remember all the best things about me and about the bond that we share?

Just my thoughts on a Monday...

---GGG

[GoatGal]

Oh... and:

5. He ONLY wants to be around people to whom he feels superior.

Underlings, needy people, even the friend he's staying with--he's her boss, and she is co-dependent to the max.

Perfect setup!

(Who else would let him live there rent-free until his divorce???)
He avoids spending time with his old contemporaries, his superiors/equals at work, has nothing but bad things to say about them.
He avoids everyone who is not beneath him, and those who are on his level or above, he continually cuts down.


That is NOT ME. Nor was it ever.
He never could feel superior to me.
I always felt we were equals.
I was the only one he lived with/married.
I was the only one who could stand on my own two feet.

Hmmmmm.....


---GGG