Do I tell him all I know?

[25yearsmlc]

Sonas,

so sorry you are here but it is a great place to be a lousy reason.

I don't have much time at the moment but wanted to reply to the anniversary question.

SINCE HE brought it up anyhow AND SINCE THERE ARE CHILDREN that come from this marriage

why not just acknowledge them and say something along the lines of

"it's still worth remembering", and included a photo of the kids or the family you two created...??

In case I missed it, i am operating on the assumption that you

1) have proof of an affair (not saying filmed intercourse is the only way to get it) and that you have real evidence, not just "strong Feelings" of an A;

and

2) you have seen a lawyer to protect your financial/legal interests.

More later, but if you can, let us know the answers to these questions.

AND what your goal is now, given the circumstances.

Hang in there, and good good luck!

[sonas]

Thanks so much 25,
Yes, proof of an affair, and he admitted it - he had no choice - I had the proof, he ended it for a while, it is now on and off (he doesn't know I know this - I found out by snooping) and he sees many other women - he believes that I don't know much about what he is doing now - he lives abroad. It is a long story! I really hope you get the time to read through my posts - I has read yours and you inspire me - also your H left for Alaska, my H left for Russia. I would so appreciate your thoughts on my sitch.............

I am thinking of saying as you suggested;

Thank you for the anniversary wishes. It's still worth remembering, I guess. We created a wonderful family, 4 amazing children that make the world a better place.

[sonas]

so, in the end I sent a text as follows;

Thank you for the anniversary wishes (a day early!). It's still worth remembering, I guess. We created a wonderful family, 4 amazing children that make the world a better place. Happy Anniversary to you, for tomorrow.......

Each time, I want to drop the rope, to let go, he does something like this, it always seems like he is cake eating, making sure to be sufficiently nice to me to ensure that I will be still be there for him if he wants. But not too nice, no kisses at the end of the message. I feel like a fool sometimes for even bothering to respond to him - it seems like I am meeting his needs just by being here - I don't want to meet any of his needs, the OW(s) can do that.

I was ready to ignore our wedding anniversary for the first time ever and was sure he would, I was ready to ignore valentines day for the first time ever and was sure he would. I am moving forward and leaving him behind to figure himself out, I really hope he does but I have accepted that I cannot help him.

I always come back to my original question, the title of my thread - do I tell him all I know? He doesn't know that I know about his online dating, his return to the original OW, the rest of the OWs and his attempts to make sure that anyone who knows what he is doing keeps it from me. Because he doesn't know what I know he can pretend, can continue to live his half life in each world, being just nice enough to me.

[25yearsmlc]

so, in the end I sent a text as follows;

Thank you for the anniversary wishes (a day early!). It's still worth remembering, I guess. We created a wonderful family, 4 amazing children that make the world a better place. Happy Anniversary to you, for tomorrow.......

Each time, I want to drop the rope, to let go, he does something like this, it always seems like he is cake eating, making sure to be sufficiently nice to me to ensure that I will be still be there for him if he wants. But not too nice, no kisses at the end of the message.

Well, he's not being excessively cruel, but I can't say that sending a text is particularly loving. I mean, it's about the minimum he could do.

For our 24th, h sent roses and a note that suggested nothing was off beat about him living 3000 miles away. I vowed NOT to spend our 25th that way and took the kids and myself to Italy for the best vacation I had had til then.

(H and I went ourselves later on. But that first trip with the kids is still such a great memory. NO reminders of h, and a lot of bonding with the kids).

I can only assume that the trip hit h hard b/c my MC said it would be hard not to notice and to wonder where the heck I and the kids were and for the first time, ever, h could not reach me or the kids when HE wanted to...

maybe you could be a LOT LESS available to him?

My gut says that your h is not going to miss you or come around making real effort, as long as he 1) knows you are there waiting anyhow

and or 2) as long as HIS needs are met without making the effort to win you back.

So that brings me to the question of what legal protections YOU have, with or without him.

What are you going to lose if you two divorce? And if things remain as they are?


I feel like a fool sometimes for even bothering to respond to him - it seems like I am meeting his needs just by being here - I don't want to meet any of his needs, the OW(s) can do that.

I was ready to ignore our wedding anniversary for the first time ever and was sure he would, I was ready to ignore valentines day for the first time ever and was sure he would. I am moving forward and leaving him behind to figure himself out, I really hope he does but I have accepted that I cannot help him.

I always come back to my original question, the title of my thread - do I tell him all I know? He doesn't know that I know about his online dating, his return to the original OW, the rest of the OWs and his attempts to make sure that anyone who knows what he is doing keeps it from me. Because he doesn't know what I know he can pretend, can continue to live his half life in each world, being just nice enough to me.

My only question is, what do YOU gain or lose by keeping it to yourself, versus telling him what you know?

Once I can grasp that, I might be able to better advise.

[sonas]

Hi 25,
Thanks again - it helps to read the view of someone outside of my sitch!

On your comments;
No, sending a text is not loving - but then he doesn't want to come across that way - he wants to show that he cares but wants to be sure that I know that he doesn't love me. I know it's mind reading but the only way he can carry on with OW's etc. is by convincing himself that he doesn't love me. So, the surprise to me is getting any acknowledgment of our anniversary from him at all.

Yes, you are absolutely right - I have to be a LOT LESS available to him. However, we are involved in a joint project workwise and we are working towards a resolution to our financial crisis - both of these require that I am in contact with him. I have stated than when both of these issues are addressed I will not be in contact with him - but it may take some time. What I have been trying to do is to minimise my availability outside of these issues and to keep our conversations about the issues at hand only.

At this stage he is not interested in wining me back at all - he seems to just want us to get on, as friends.

If we divorce (which is a long drawn out process here - min. 4 years) I wouldn't lose much at this point - we don't have much!! He is earning good money and sends me as much as he thinks he should - it is enough but it is definitely not as much as he can. He looks after himself first, financially - he buys what he wants when he wants - he looks after his own needs, always has enough money to do whatever he wants - he will not tell me what he earns. On the other hand he never queries what I spend money on and doesn't begrudge me anything. He also sends money for construction work on 'our' home - he keeps calling it 'our' home, 'our' garden etc. I can't imagine that he would ever stop supporting us financially - it is important to him - way back, his original OW told him to throw money at the problem (the problem being his wife and kids) - this was when he expressed concern about us not having a man around to help and protect us (3 women on their own).


What do I gain by keeping it to myself, well not much really - a quiet life I suppose - conflict avoidance - peace. I can talk to him about the issues we have to deal with without animosity from him, I get to plan things here and perhaps to prepare better, emotionally, for when I do tell him all I know. I want to tell him without breaking down in tears, without anger. I want to process my pain.

But, I don't feel I am being honest, and I have a problem with that, I am sad that he is lying and lying and pretending and wearing a mask - am I just as bad? He is depressed, would it push him too far to tell him what I know?

I think I am his 'retirement plan'.

[25yearsmlc]

Hi 25,
Thanks again - it helps to read the view of someone outside of my sitch!

On your comments;
No, sending a text is not loving - but then he doesn't want to come across that way - he wants to show that he cares but wants to be sure that I know that he doesn't love me. I know it's mind reading but the only way he can carry on with OW's etc. is by convincing himself that he doesn't love me. So, the surprise to me is getting any acknowledgment of our anniversary from him at all.

Yes, you are absolutely right - I have to be a LOT LESS available to him. However, we are involved in a joint project workwise and we are working towards a resolution to our financial crisis - both of these require that I am in contact with him. I have stated than when both of these issues are addressed I will not be in contact with him - but it may take some time. What I have been trying to do is to minimize my availability outside of these issues and to keep our conversations about the issues at hand only.


I think by ending EVERY conversation with him first, and before he does, as soon as the "appropriate" topics are exhausted, will go a long way to helping you detach AND MAY show him a red flag of sorts.

Do not be too abrupt or rude, but DO get off the phone or leave the area once the business talk is done. HE can contact the girls to maintain his r's with them, there's no need for you to continue bridging any gaps.

That's HIS job and it always was.

At this stage he is not interested in wining me back at all - he seems to just want us to get on, as friends.

Maybe so...that could be a lot worse b/c at least he's not spewing on you or to the family. Seriously, plus it MAY help you financially.

It also means you have to keep your expectations to a minimum, as in, have none.


If we divorce (which is a long drawn out process here - min. 4 years) I wouldn't lose much at this point - we don't have much!! He is earning good money and sends me as much as he thinks he should - it is enough but it is definitely not as much as he can.

Have you sought legal counsel? (If not, please do so asap). That would probably make me want to start the process, b/c you can always stop it. And 4 years is a long time to wait for support in the event he chooses to stop it OR changes it or is injured or dies or meets a more demanding OW...none of which is under your control.

That alone would eat at my self confidence...A really important question is,

What would he have to send you, legally, in a divorce? That matters a whole lot.


He looks after himself first, financially - he buys what he wants when he wants - he looks after his own needs, always has enough money to do whatever he wants - he will not tell me what he earns. On the other hand he never queries what I spend money on and doesn't begrudge me anything.


Then if I were you, I'd start setting aside some emergency rainy day money. B/c honey, it's raining now and soon, it'll be pouring. Like when any of his OWs make demands on him...

He also sends money for construction work on 'our' home - he keeps calling it 'our' home, 'our' garden etc. I can't imagine that he would ever stop supporting us financially - it is important to him -

Well, I'm very sorry to say this, but you NEED to "Imagine it" - b/c a guy who rationalizes lying this much, and for so long, can rationalize a lot more than you seem to realize.

I'm NOT suggesting any attack or legally aggressive move on your end. I'm talking about you protecting yourself AND your girls. They deserve to have family assets not wasted, as do you.

way back, his original OW told him to throw money at the problem (the problem being his wife and kids) - this was when he expressed concern about us not having a man around to help and protect us (3 women on their own).


Not sure how you know what an "original OW" told him but none of that is relevant now. PROTECT YOUR DAUGHTERS AND YOURSELF. You are not in your 20s and if he dies or wastes the family assets, YOU will suffer and so will your d's.

My h's MLC cost us well into 6 figures...I still shake my head at times...

There are days I wish I'd figured out how to DB right, a lot faster.


What do I gain by keeping it to myself, well not much really - a quiet life I suppose - conflict avoidance - peace. I can talk to him about the issues we have to deal with without animosity from him,

That is more than "not much" to me. But I can't say conflict avoidance is a great goal in and of itself. Sometimes it's how some of us got here in the first place.

But I CAN see the upside of peaceful communication and financial advantages.

I get to plan things here and perhaps to prepare better, emotionally, for when I do tell him all I know. I want to tell him without breaking down in tears, without anger. I want to process my pain.

I have a feeling that deep down, you have "expectations" that telling him you know, will somehow change things for him. Or how he feels about you...

if so, what are those expectations (hopes??) and please, Dig deep & be specific.

Also, you cannot process the pain without at least some detachment. So I'd have to ask you what you are doing to GAL b/c

I know of NO WAY to detach, without GAL and
I don't know a way to process pain and be at peace, without detachment.


But, I don't feel I am being honest, and I have a problem with that, I am sad that he is lying and lying and pretending and wearing a mask - am I just as bad? He is depressed, would it push him too far to tell him what I know?

I think I am his 'retirement plan'.

Did I miss something about him wanting to take his own life or something? What are your fears about HIS depression?

B/C him feeling bad is not really your problem. Him taking his life, while not your responsibility - does of course matter to you. Even the most detached of former wives, would care about the parent of their children dying.

Second, what do you mean by being his retirement plan? I THINK you mean that he MAY harbor the belief that later on, like A LOT LATER ON,

he'd be able to return home to "commit" to the marriage and may think that b/c you don't know about OWs, you'd be happy and willing to resume. AND that you'd care for him in his old age or illness and

you two would cruise to the finish line with your children/grand children about you both and all would be fine and dandy.

Is that what you mean?

May I assume you are NOT okay with that plan?

IF SO, then I'd begin to want to act as if you have had an awakening. That you want and expect more from a relationship and that you accept that HE is NOT able to provide that to you. You can be sad (for HIM, mostly) about it but show that you are resigned to it. That YOU look forward to the life YOU are creating for YOU and for your kids...know that feeling at peace about your future, really can radiate from within. That shows.

If nothing else gets thru to a WAH, the fact that his w seems more than "ok" without him, and that she's attractive to OMs in general OR one in particular, and is excited about romance in HER life...often can pierce thru their fog...

That you are now seeking to end the m so you can move forward to at least being open to "openly and honestly" pursue a r with OMs in general.

**IF there is a chance HE could have his own awakening, I happen to believe it can only come from believing he's losing you AND Caring enough to change.

I'm not saying there's a good chance of that happening.

I'm saying at this point, it's the ONLY chance I see of it happening.

OF course I could be wrong! But for a moment, assume I'm correct.

What would you be willing to say or do OR Act as if, to get you there?

Meanwhile, the easiest visible things to do are wearing a new perfume, new hairstyle, working out, dance lessons, MAJOR GAL activities,

adopting the "sorry I can't come to the phone b/c I'm busy going to new exciting places, meeting fun new people and doing interesting new things--but leave a message and have a GREAT day!" has to become your mantra. And your new reality.

If you need to get in shape, do so. If you need to get a more youthful look (tastefully, that is) do so. No point in putting that off. This does not mandate that you date. I'm advising that you at least appear open to it...

What do you think?

[sonas]

Thank you so much 25!
I am still processing everything you said and didn't want you to think I was ignoring it! It means alot to me that you put so much thought into your reply and I don't want to do it an injustice by rushing a response. I have been thinking it all through and want to be clear and honest and give it time to filter and process. I will post over the weekend - sometimes I just don't know what I want now or why...............