I am a lurker, having read many posts over the last two months which have been inspirational and very helpful. Thanks to you all for your experience and insight!
I just haven't had the energy to tell my story again and almost don't know where to start. (Plus, it sort of interferes with my "focus on myself" plan every time I go over the gory details.)
I have the books, DB/DR and have read them cover to cover more than once. (I went through three highlighters, in three colors, so I think I've got the basics down.) I have put into place everything I could and now--at day 45 of DB--I see a definite improvement in my interactions with my husband.
My situation is complicated in that there was not only a MOW at work over the last year, but a long term porn addiction/intimacy issue for him which cause him to build many walls between us over almost three decades together.
Impotence was an ongoing issue for him, beginning when we were first dating. Over time, it waxed and waned, but never really went away. He was raised in an orphanage, was treated very poorly as a child, whether or not it was outright "abuse" he doesn't recall, but at best it was awful. He was adopted as a young boy, then underwent some painful medical procedures, had his name changed, and ultimately had his father drop dead from a stroke right in front of him at age 9. After that, his mother went to work full time and he was on his own.
Knowing his story, I did cut him a lot of slack for his "weirdnesses" about being confined, "mothered", "smothered"... I got it, and I accepted that about him unconditionally. He never wanted to explore this about himself, never wanted to talk about it. If ever I pushed, he retreated and I saw it was not going to help anything.
Now of course I see that's where we were destined to go wrong, but you know what they say about "hindsight being 20/20." This background info is in no way an excuse for his choices; just an explanation why I didn't react in a different way years ago. I had compassion for him and was willing to accept who he was, baggage and all. I accepted the good with the bad and I took my vows seriously.
But for that, he had ALL the qualities I wanted in a mate; loyal, loving, honest, treated me very well, lots in common, smart, accomplished, attractive to me, great voice, great hands...just a wonderful man who my family adored and who worked hard--showing his love for me in so many ways--even if our sexual relationship was not as satisfying as I would have liked. I heard from everyone all the time how lucky I was! I like a lot of freedom; have many interests and never wanted to be joined at the hip like some couples. We had mutual interests as well. I thought I had it all. He loved me and showed this in so many ways. He supported me, also showing this through words and actions. He gave me my freedom, because he trusted me... (rightfully so since I have never even so much as seriously flirted with another since marrying him over 22 years ago)...but now I see that his "Go out and have a great time, don't worry about coming home early!" was so he could spend the evening "indulging himself" online. In retrospect, I don't know how I missed this. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well....
I got the ILYBINILWY speech last spring, he said he'd find a marriage counselor for us to go to (never did) he didn't think he'd ever loved me...the whole speech. I asked about infidelity and he denied it. He said he was under a lot of stress at work, there are other stressors too, unrelated to our R, and I gave him the benefit of the doubt. I was upset, didn't understand what was happening, but he was unreachable and working LOTS OF LATE HOURS for crises at work...Yeah, right.
Fast forward to concrete proof of MOW in September 2013. He had those cold shark eyes when he said. "Oh. So I guess you know." I threw him out then and there.
He was in and out, back and forth several times, all because I wanted him to go; I couldn't handle him being here. He never wanted to leave, just wanted to "get along", but how could I be civil with him after what he did? I was devastated--sick, couldn't sleep. I felt the betrayal physically and lost 30 pounds I couldn't afford to... I was a wreck. I had trusted him, never snooped, never EVER! I was betrayed to my core. I felt so violated.... He did end the OW relationship the day after I caught him, pretty sure that's true, (I had spies) he went for STD testing, went transparent, gave me all his passwords, credit cards, GPS on his phone. He basically agreed to EVERYTHING I ASKED---EXCEPT:
He would not say he loved me, that he didn't love her, and the best he could offer was a half-hearted "let's see how it turns out" attitude towards our M. I ran him through the ringer emotionally countless times until I finally ran out of venom to spew. But not before he filed for Divorce; I think because to him it provided an escape from an intolerable situation.
My reaction to the PA discovery was so out of character for me. I said and did things I would have never imagined. I wanted him dead. I wanted her dead. I felt the weight of all the years of MY sacrifice sexually--- for what? To have him cheat on me?
I felt that if anyone was justified in having an affair--it was me! I was livid. How DARE HE!!!! HE felt neglected sexually? Really? I felt I was the one who was turned away, tuned out, neglected, who made concessions....I wasn't perfect but he's saying he's been miserable for 22 years but never bothered to mention it? Is he some kind of Saint? Suffering in silence? I was in shock.
I wish I'd had DB info then!!!! Even though my over-the-top reaction was completely justified, it drove him further from me. (He can't handle conflict, strong emotion, vulnerability--that's the root of the whole problem.)
Well, I let it all hang out about his impotence, you name it. How we never had children, he stole the best years of my life, only to let me go through menopause to announce that he didn't love me, never loved me, and married me out of some type of obligation. ((???HUH???))) Saddled me with a mountain of debt, an unsustainable lifestyle, so many missed opportunities... I felt like our whole M was a lie. I ran him into the ground verbally, emotionally. I regret being so cruel, but I was out of my mind. I am not a cruel person. He was shocked.
So after four months of crazy-making altercations,it comes to light that he has had an ongoing "preference" (his words) for satisfying himself solo rather than being intimate with me. It's ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY since before we met! Yet, according to his new script, our "boring" sex life was MY fault because he was "never attracted to me". ???? So why continue to go out with me when we first met, move in with me, marry me, live with me for almost 30 years? He had no answer.
And here I was settling for once a week/month because he "doesn't like it in the morning/night/weekdays...". Are you kidding me??? He said the adultery was just because he "prefers shallow relationships and porn" for sexual satisfaction, that the A was just an escalation of fantasy into real life, "stupid, but it's what I wanted" he said....."Can you let it go NOW?" he said to me. "I am too old to change (63) I don't want to change." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So that's it.
And for all these years I was under the impression that he had a really low sex drive... I wasn't happy about it, but I loved him very much and I made a conscious decision to accept it, much the way you would not expect a man in a wheelchair to get up and dance... It was part of the package and he was always a considerate and kind lover. I believed that's how he was, that's how he wanted it (infrequently) and I figured (stupidly, I see now) "how many minutes of a marriage are spent having sex?" I loved him. It's all I can say. Prior to us getting married I'd had other lovers, some of whom I clicked with wonderfully--but I never would have married them! He was everything I wanted and I figured I'd live with his... disability. As he got older, 50's and 60's I figured his testosterone was dipping and it all made sense to me...I thought.
However, two years ago he started treating me like a bunch of body parts instead of a person and I realized I'd started to feel degraded with him sexually. He seemed closer but it was so brief.., and it became the only affection I got. We talked about it several times but he manipulated his way out of it and I found myself apologizing...or backing off. So his manipulations worked. He made it clear this was an off-limits topic. He made a few promises... never followed through. He had a lot of constraints: "Not this, not that. Yes this, but not that. This time, not that time, this way, not that way...." I think too much solo porn was the cause for this.... for a bunch of reasons I'll not go into here. (Moderator: Feel free to edit me for adult content. I'm not sure how much is too much detail.)
After menopause I essentially said: "No more of this. If you want me, I'm here, all you need to do is ASK. But it's been your way for 20 years and it's time for a change. If you don't initiate, I'll assume that you're fine with no sex at all. " (In a nutshell.)
I assumed he would be fine with it since I had put up with his lack of desire for so long. I just accepted that he didn't care. I felt like a weight had been removed. I had begun to dread being with him in that way, but I just couldn't quite put my finger on why. I had begun to think it was me. And it was, in a sense. I was responding subconsciously to something negative that my conscious mind wouldn't let me see clearly. There was nothing obvious... just something not right.
It's sad, because I am still an attractive, vibrant woman with needs that have gone unmet for so long because I believed in love and fidelity... and I fear I may have become dysfunctional because of this relationship. I hope not.
I look back on this "No more" speech now and cringe, but at the time I was feeling used after every sexual encounter.
It's hard to put my finger on it, but I just felt like a "thing" with "parts" instead of a person. Truthfully, I was relieved when he no longer initiated and I felt we got along better... Little did I know... pornography addiction was at the core of his problem.
He was very secretive and although I knew he looked at porn, I had no idea that to him it was "better than real life" and had been for a long, long time. He had spent hundreds of dollars....well, let's just say that it was a lot more than just a "hobby'' and no real woman can compete with the Babes in Pornland. I sure couldn't.
Imagine my surprise when, after years of damping down my desire and watching my sex life dwindle to nothing, that it turns out the reason he was treating me so terribly recently was that he was carrying on an adulterous relationship with a young woman from work! I am ten years younger than he is, and she is twenty years younger than me! Of COURSE he was using Viagra... which he'd never try with me. He was her boss; in control, no vulnerability, his ego was boosted and there was no risk of vulnerability or real emotional attachment, just fantasy land. (So unlike our M...) He has described it this way. He was not "threatened" like he apparently is with me... That makes me sad too because I think he must be the only person in the world who finds me threatening in the least....
And... they still work together. And I am supposed to be "OK with it because we're getting a divorce anyway, so it doesn't matter." According to him, nothing matters because divorce is a "Get out of jail free" pass!
And of course he made comparisons between us to justify his actions which I only realized after the fact. "SOME people are more SENSUAL than you are...." was in his list of complaints, along with: 1. I had four boxes of dishwasher powder (two for one coupons) 2. I had canvas shopping bags hanging by the front door--hey, I'm environmentally conscious! 3. I had rolling cart of toiletries. (We're remodeling and I don't have storage in the bathroom.) That's the best he came up with about my "shortcomings". No complaints, not a word about being unhappy, business as usual and less sex that usual but honestly I hardly noticed. Weeks, months...it snowballs. It was our life. I had made my peace with it years ago and really wasn't even angry.
So the betrayal was worse than the sex, as were the many lies. That he shared intimate details of our life, my personal struggles, with a stranger. He lied to me, to her--and really hurt us both, not that I have any sympathy for her.
The adultery went on for almost a year, while I, trusting fool that I am, took him at his word. I since found all the incriminating evidence that proves it was a lot more that he'd let on---thousands of dollars, gifts, hotels---all the time he was treating me terribly and wouldn't say why he was so angry with me.
During that time, even though I didn't know about the A, I threatened to leave more than once because of the emotional abuse and he seemed just dandy with that. I didn't even recognize him, he was so cruel and I didn't understand why he was treating me as his enemy. I hadn't done anything to cause him to treat me that way. I was getting pretty fed up with the way he was treating me, that's for sure.
There is a lot more to this too, but let's just leave it at: He could have lost his job, his home, his ability to earn a living by this inappropriate relationship. He was highly involved, hundreds of phone calls/texts/expenses per month. It was like he was out of his mind. He became a monster to me.
And his "justification"? I wasn't "giving him" sex!!!!! He felt he could righteously indulge himself on some level, after years of denying me. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fast forward to today.
He got angry when I told him to either come clean about ALL his secrets over the years (porn, sexual encounters, preferring solo gratification, no more hidden parts of himself) or "yes, then divorce is the only answer". He called a lawyer that day in December 2013, filed that week.
He filed the first time... let it lapse, I don't think his heart was in it, he just wanted me to stop confronting him... (Mind-reading I know!) we'd had some big blow-ups about the porn thing, his denial, backpedaling, his new fancy laptop that I'm locked out of... not even about the OW, but about the PORN. I think that's the bigger issue for sure.
It was the day after another huge argument about the porn problem that he reinstated the divorce and had me served. At which point he asked if he can "just come home and have a quiet evening or are you going to be angry with me?" I said no. "Get help, or get out" and he's been out since then, Feb. 2014.
I don't understand this behavior. I have stopped trying to figure it out because it makes no sense.
He says he wants a D but doesn't seem to have worked out all the long range implications... He wants to live here--I guess pretending to be a single guy while enjoying whatever perks he feels still exist for him. There is a whole lot more but as I said, I'm tired of the story.
I'm in therapy, have been since BD. He was seeing an IC, but quit after serving me. I guess because he figures D will solve all his "problems". In a sense, I guess that's true. Get rid of me and porn addiction/adultery will be a non-issue.
One thing I can say is that this hasn't diminished my self-esteem. I am not perfect and have plenty of things I need to work on, for myself or any R I might be in. But I did not cause this and I can't fix it.
Still, I am working really hard on myself, the GAL, 180, all that. I am being the best "me" I can be. It's a little sad because I pretty much always have been that way...he just stopped seeing me at all, stopped appreciating me, or loving me, I guess. He just built walls, and tuned me out... it was insidious and slow. I only now see how he accomplished this so completely.
I'm not sure I want this marriage unless he can do the work to finally deal with his issues. He has tried to blame me, but I'm not buying it. He and I both know what's really going on...but it's painful for him. I get it.
I am just focusing on myself and figuring out what I need to do next....
He is going to have to deal with his own baggage, or not.
The reason for DB is to calm things down enough to see if there is anything worth salvaging or not. Although he has been a total chit for pretty much the last 2 years, prior to that he was a wonderful husband. It is that man I am hoping will make a return, and who will make the choice to finally deal with his issues so he can be better. For himself, maybe with me, maybe not.
But I got married for keeps. I am not the type to give up on someone because they go through a crisis. However, I won't spend the rest of my life suffering for them either...
So... I'm on the fence and DB my heiney off. I have put a lot of blame on him for his decisions. I did not make him lie to me, keep secrets, cheat on me. Whatever I might have done, there was nothing that could justify those choices. Still, I am taking responsibility for my part in things in our overall R and working hard to identify and resolve the issues that I brought to the M. I am continuing with therapy even though he is not. It's for me, to be better, regardless of what happens with us.
And Divorce Busting--- IT DOES WORK! I am far from having busted anything, but I can see a major improvement in our R regardless of the outcome. We are less tense, and are able to work together, not avoiding each other. There is more of a connection that there has been in awhile.
All in all, it's good. And shifting the focus to myself and having a plan to work from has really helped ground me. I feel less at odds, more in control, measuring my baby steps and controlling myself and my thoughts.
It's not easy, but it has been worth it.
He is much better around me, no doubt because he is no longer terrified I'm going to rip him a new one every time he opens his mouth...
But I'm still angry, hurt, devastated, unsure of the future... and I have a lot of decisions to make.
I told him that although I didn't see D as any kind of solution, more like "out of the frying pan and into the fire", if that's what he really wanted then I couldn't stop him. I did say I was going to take all the time the law allows to get my ducks in a row before I move/settle, etc. That I wasn't going to make a knee jerk decision while in this state of mind and I needed to make sure I did what what best for me. He needed to do what was best for him... and my hope is that with time and more DB that he will be able to restore something in himself that he seems to have lost. But I know that's up to him, not me. But it is my hope for him as someone I care for.
So I'm here, he's at a friend's indefinitely. He wants to move back, into the basement....that's the part I'm going to need advice about, boundaries, etc.
I am very conflicted on that.
Enough for now....
---GoatGal
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
You are dealing with so many issues on so many levels. Yes, you have learned an enormous amount of information from the Divorce Busting literature, but, after reading your lengthy history, I suggest you speak to a Divorce Busting Coach. At this point, the professional knowledge, advice and correct guidance that you will receive is crucial to your future relationship. Call me to dicuss our coaching program. 303-444-7004
Roberta, Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004 Roberta@divorcebusting.com
Wow, so much anger, bitterness and resentment in your post! It sounds very much like you are doing everything you can to punish your H over and over again for these perceived transgressions. Marriages never fall apart because one spouse is doing everything wrong while the other is doing everything right. They fall apart because BOTH spouses are doing things wrong. You need to own your mistakes, and right now you're not. You're trying to make your H own 100% of this, and the more you push for that the farther you push him away. DB'ing is not about your H, it's about YOU. YOU own YOUR problems, you make yourself the best "you" that you can be, the spouse only a fool would leave. And you remove all pressure from your H and give him time and space to sort through his own issues. Your posts here should be filled with "I" and "me" language rather than H-focused terms. These things happen, it's not about assigning blame, it's about making changes in ourselves and charting a new course in life.
My post got repeated again in "Newcomers" so I responded over there.
I hear what you're saying about the anger. I was very angry at first, not so much now. I went into it in more depth on the newer thread.
I do recognize that I have my own issues and have been working on those. I also understand that marriage is a partnership and we react to each other, good and bad. I have identified things that would make me a better partner and person, and I'm focusing on achieving those goals. I think they are improvements he would appreciate as well.
Although I first I wanted him to hurt like I was hurting, that feeling had subsided; now it's just a great sadness...
I do not take responsibility for his affair, nor his sexual issues. Those are things he kept secret from me; tried to blame me for, but has admitted that it had nothing to do with me and everything about what's broken in him-- and I agree.
I have compassion for him. My friends and family don't understand why I'm even thinking about trying to work things out. He is my husband and my best friend. I think deep down he would still like to be and I have let him know that door is open should he decide to step through it.
He is a good man with a real problem. I love him and I had planned to live the rest of my life with him. But I can't fix him. And I can't be with him unless he starts doing the work to make a relationship based on honesty and intimacy.
Me 54 Him 63 M 23 T 29 0 Kids Funny Farm of Rescues 12/12 OW-- 5/13 ILYBINILWY: A denied 9/13 Proof OW: ENDED 2/14 Got D papers on my BD I kicked him out for my sanity 9/14 He wants to "talk"?
GoatGal, I see some similarities to my sitch. You are a lot better in describing it though. The sex life that was dwindling... I don’t know if he was watching porn, but we had Playboy magazine every month, and I was subconsciously competing with these girls in it, at least this is what I realized after the BD. He said he wanted a D, but hasn’t done anything about it. He is behaving like a single guy, but still wants “favors” from me.
I also was trying to be the best of me, but he stopped appreciating me. I realize that I cannot fix it for him. I also hope that one day he will fix whatever is not right with him. I’m losing my hope though.
Just like you I think my H is a good man and I also was planning to spend the rest of my life with him. You seem to be doing good in terms of DB and taking care of you. What’s the resent news? Did you let him move back into the basement?
M:50 H:52 S28 (my S from previous marriage) M:17 + 3 BD: 06/12 S: 06/12 - H works in another state
