4th quarter, Not looking forward to OT

[TL72*]

AJM - now that i'm older I have a better understanding of her state of mind than when I was 12. When you're a kid and you're raised a certain way, you think of things in black and white I guess - at least I did I think.Mostly you don't know all the details so you just figure she's a bad wife. Then once you're older and experienced more things you can sort of understand more that it wasn't just her being a crappy wife. I understood later that she was 30 something and we were living in a strange country (dad was in the Air Force) and she was raising 3 kids and he was very very focused on his career. He neglected her and it caused her to find attention elsewhere. Is that a good reason to cheat? No. But once you experience that neglect first hand you sort of understand one's need for love, affection etc. He wouldn't go to counseling, was afraid how it would look since we lived on base. So it takes 2 and they both played a role. I think she also had a lot of hormone imbalance, perhaps her own MLC and she's sometimes emotionally unbalanced. No they're not good excuses but I could understand better as an adult that when another man gave her lots of attention that she craved that she gave in to the temptation. Incredibly selfish? yes. Back then though, this was late 70's, early 80's - there was no internet and not a lot of books like we have now, people weren't talking about these things so much. I feel like i'm lucky to have found this place for sure and read so many books. Unfortunately though my mother's behavior was sort of accepted and i never really saw them fight about it - they may have - so I was never really shown that this is NOT how a marriage should be. I have since learned otherwise. Sorry to hijack the thread

[ericmsant2]

Jfun

I've been following you for a while. I know that you are getting some very good advice. When I read your post today on one hand I was happy. On the other hand it broke my heart. You are angry and that is a very good thing. What you do with this anger is very important. Do you sit and stew, do you over compensate in one way shape or form so that you try to keep the anger at bay OR do you use it to really sit down and decide what you want for your life and the life of your kids. It is your choice JFun.

I suspect that on some level you are embarrassed by what is going on with your family. You shouldn't be. You did not cause her crisis. Yes, you may have done some things in the M that you wished you hadn't - we all did. Everyone does. You may have worked a lot, spent a lot of time in the office...missing time with the kids. If this is the case, join the crowd. I did it and many others did it. I suspect that if indeed you missed time with the kids that you did it to take care of your family, to give them a better life, to give them the best you could. It was what worked at the time. Jfun you were not wrong for doing this! That was the dynamic in your household until…your W’s crisis hit.

It was in the past. Let it go. Your W for whatever reason decided to choose a different path for her life. She decided to change the game if you will.... that is not your fault. Nothing you do now can change the past. Nothing. Now that may sound sad... it is not. Your past is just that.... your past. You now have a chance to write your future. Think of your future as a blank sheet of paper that you can use to design your future life.

I can feel the fear you have about the kids in your post. I was there man. Not sure if you have ever read my threads... you should. You would see the same fear. The fear of losing my kids. I do not have much family and the few that I have are not close to me....at least they were not for a while. So my kids were my family. They were everything to me. Everything. Just to give you a bit more context... my dad left 20 bucks on the table when I was born. To this day I do not know who he is or where he is. My mom she had her own issues. I became a ward of the state at a young age. Soooo I made a promise to be the best dad I can. To never leave my kids. To give them the best I can. So JFun I understand your fear. I know it very well.

When the bomb dropped... I freaked. The guilt took over. You know that guilt that talks to you all the time. When you are lying down, driving, hell even just walking. It says to you…

You worked to much...

You were not always around....

When you were you were tired...

You left the parenting up to the mom...

You did not cook as much as you could have…

You didn’t clean as much as you could have…

You did this or that wrong…
Then that voice reminds you that…..it is correct….it tells you if you W said it…it must be true.

Day in and day out…the voice whispers…. So you begin to believe it. Believe it so much that at this point guilt has a total grip on you.


When the guilt hit me.... I did what a lot of guys do. I over compensated. I did everything. Wash cloth, bath them, cooked, cleaned, worked, kid parties, pick up and drop off, drop off friends... I did everything. All while my ex f×cked around. At the end if the day I was pooped. I had nothing. Nothing ldft... only fear and guilt.

Then.....it changed ...

I made a choice.....

I mattered....

I needed some time for myself...

I realized and ACCEPTED.... that I could not shelter the kids from everything. I could not act like we were the perfect family .... so I let go...

Totally...let go....

I decided to be the best parent AND the best man I could be. So what did that look like?

I still did most around the house. I still did most of the parenting. I also took care of me. I went out. I GAL'd.

I protected myself legally.

Some of the women that are about to read this may disagree with what I am about to say.

JFun are you afraid that because you are a male or dad that the court system will be working against you? If so, I get it. Most men feel this way and unfortunately our society operated this way for a long time. It is changing. A slow change but it is changing. No longer are the mom’s guaranteed to have full custody. The courts are starting to realize that dad matter and that we matter more than just writing a check and being the every other weekend fun dad. That said, you need to have a plan to ensure you achieve your goals. Speak to an atty, figure out what you need to do to position yourself to be an active part of your kids’ lives. Your W may not like it. She may try to posion the kids against you. Guess what – believe it or not – it will not change how the kids feel about you as long as you keep being YOU. As long as you keep being the best person you can be. Trust me JFun, they will see it.


When I spoke to my L – my instructions were clear. I was open to anything EXCEPT anything less than 50/50. Even though I felt that the kids should have lived with me full time (mom was….ummm…spending every waking moment with her married boyfriend)….I did not think that it was really in their best interest. At least no long term. So…my L and a good friend gave me the same advice – keep a log. Document. Hopefully we will not have to use it. I am happy to say I did not have to use the log. Why? Cause my L spoke to my W’s L and I believe let her know that she did not have a shot in hell to get full custody.

You are not going to lose them JFun – not as long as you ALWAYS put their best interest first. Even if that means…agreeing on something with your W.

Separate any anger you have toward your W from decisions that need to be made about the kids. If you are anything like me…I wanted them to hate their mom. I wanted them to not want to spend any time with her. Why did she deserve them? Look at what she did to the family? These feelings are YOUR anger that you need to work on.

The kids are going to love you. They really are going to be fine. Yes they will feel this. Yes it will not be easy.

I am not saying that you should promote an R with their mom. Nope. But you do not have to sabotage it. You do not have to live in fear that they will love her more than you.

My ex was a stay at home mom for a very very long time. She raised the kids. Did everything with them while I busted my arse. I was so scared that they would not want to come and spend nights with me. That they would always want to be with mommy. OMG..that was so far from the truth, at least for me. Yes, they love their mom. They also know that Mom is crazy (kid you not my D said it the other day to me). They have no expectation of their mom. None. They love her with all of their heart but they no that dad is the Rock.

The Rock….that’s you JFun. That is your job right now. Ya can’t be the rock if you are always afraid. You can’t be the rock if every time your ex says something you put your head down and walk away in fear. I’m not saying slap her – I am saying respond in a DB way (healthy boundaries) – for example…I’m sorry you feel that way ex. Please do not speak to me like that. If you continue I will leave the room and you can argue by yourself. The Rock JFun also needs to be healthy. You need to nourish your soul. You cannot be strong and face the fear if you are so tired and drained.

JFun…be you man. Trust yourself.

Gotta go and get Toria ready for school tomorrow.

[AJM]

I have to say, J, those two posts are absolute gold.

Day in and day out…the voice whispers…. So you begin to believe it. Believe it so much that at this point guilt has a total grip on you.

If I had to guess, you're like many of us here - it doesn't help that your nuttier-than-squirrel-poop W is telling you those things too. We've been there too and it is not pleasant. It seems it is what she needs - to tear you down for her pain. Or least, that's what she's doing. Don't buy into it, J.

I can add to this a little (I think). I used to joke when I was having a bad day that even though the people I worked with hated me, I went home to people that loved me. To say my W's behavior rocked my world is putting it mildly. My family was, and is a large part of my life. But I realized along the way... I matter too. And that's important for you J. It's important for your family regardless of what's going on in your W's head. You are the rock of your family. Your kids know that and rely on it.

Can I suggest you face that fear of the kids not wanting to be with you? I had that same fear. Right now, my daughter doesn't talk to me. We were very close up until her 16th birthday. She's angry, but about what she won't tell me.

I'm not worried. We'll be close again; in the meantime, she has her life to figure out and I'm still there as her father. And she knows it. My son and I are very close, and yes he loves us both, but he does realize his mom is a nutter.

When I was her age, my mom died. My father may as well have as well. He checked out. My sister married a foreigner and moved away to another country. My grandparents were around, but it was really just me. I didn't talk to my father for many years. Not because I didn't want to, but because I had my own life to deal with and he was not really able to emotionally. He and I are very close again now.

Can I suggest that some of your fear comes from your own relationship with your mom and especially your dad?

Face those fears. What happened in your life doesn't have to happen in yours. To avoid that, you have to heal of your fears and hurt. You're doing a great job at it, and your kids see that. We all do, even your W.

You didn't choose this. You didn't cause it. But your way out is to face your fears and forgive your W. To do that, you cannot be encumbered with single handedly trying to save your R with her. It's counter to what you need to do, brother. Your control won't save your M. Your fear won't either. It takes two committed people and you're not in that dynamic right now.

I'm not saying walk away. I'm saying let that work itself out while you do what you need to do for you and your kids. She'll have to figure herself out, and that may not happen.

But I've seen your thoughts here on this board, and I know once you get over the desire to control and your fears, the rest will fall into place in a way that will be far better than you could dream up. (Sound familiar to anything else you've hear? Let God do what He does and accept it, perhaps?)

Be the best you can be, J. Be the best dad as well without the fear of being like your parents, and you'll see that life is really good. Believe us on that. We've been there too.

AJ

[JFun51]

Wow. Thank you men for sharing with me. So much golden stuff in what I've just read. I have lots of thinking, writing, and work to process.

[JFun51]

Big update time:

I presented W with a separation agreement last night. So I have "dropped the rope". I have reached a point in this journey where I know I will be just fine however things work out. Fear no longer dictates anything to me (I hope). I know that I will always be dad to my 2 boys and nothing that transpires between myself and my wife can change that.

I fought for my marriage. I fought for her sanity. I fought for my kids safety and security. The last thing in the order of priorities was to fight for myself. Its time now.

I have financially secured the house, insurance, taxes, utilities, etc. so that my sons will be safe and have a roof over their heads. One day, I hope that they can understand how much I love them.

I have struggled through the hardest year of my life. I have learned so many things about relationships, people, the world, and most importantly, myself. I will continue to learn and grow as a person. I will grow spiritually and emotionally for the rest of my life. Our time here is a constant journey and one should never become complacent. I firmly believe that opportunities are presented to us in this life for all the right reasons. I have met some very special people along the way. Some have reached out to me, given me advice and raised me up from some very dark places.

I have met some special people that have also restored my faith in myself. I am a good man. I am a good father. I did the best I could as a son, a husband, and a man at each given moment in my life. Every moment in your life doesn't define you. What defines you is how you react and how you use each experience.

I have a long walk ahead of me. I will try to walk it with my head held high and with a confidence that I am getting better every day.

[AJM]

I'm glad I decided to check. I was wondering about you, dude.

I know it's not easy. I know it wasn't easy getting there and that it doesn't make it all go away "magically" but I'm glad to see you are progressing in your journey. I have a lot of faith you'll be a great person that continues to grow, J. It will continue to get much much better (some bumps along the way, right?)

Curious, did she sign it immediately?

AJ

[JFun51]

I gave her a small taste. I presented her with a blank agreement for her to fill out. I have already completed mine. I asked her if she would work on it for a couple of days and then we could compare proposals this weekend. Then we can begin to hammer out real, ugly details.

I fully expect her to not do the homework. So I will present my proposal to her on Saturday. I was adamant that we get it done by the end of the month so that our children had the summer to adjust to a new living situation and it not interfere with school in the fall.

[uRworthy]

J, you know how I feel about you. How you have grown, what you have learned, who you have become.

I know this isnt where you hoped this would wind up, but, you have walked this with strength and courage and conviction.

I am praying for you, my friend, and with you every step of the way.

[LoisB]

I fought for my marriage. I fought for her sanity. I fought for my kids safety and security. The last thing in the order of priorities was to fight for myself. Its time now.

I have financially secured the house, insurance, taxes, utilities, etc. so that my sons will be safe and have a roof over their heads. One day, I hope that they can understand how much I love them.

This may be one of the most beautiful things I've ever read on these boards.

J, I can't imagine your sons don't already understand how much you love them. You have proven it over and over and over again.

Take care of yourself, sounds like you are.

[LoisB]

Just to clarify:

I think what strikes me as beautiful with you, J, has to do with how you have put your sons first every step of the way. It's struck me since you started posting. You knew you had been lacking as a dad and you worked hard to put that right.

And, even now, you put your ducks in a row so your sons are protected as much as possible through all this crud. What a beautiful gift to give to them.

It's so refreshing on these boards. My H was more concerned about child support enforcement interfering with his rent than he was when the house almost foreclosed and his daughter would have had no place to live.

God Bless,

Heather

My dad, my H...neither put their children first and it's so good to see you make them your top priority.