Pre-piecing Thoughts

[paul19510]

In say that with all due respect for wonka. I just think that she should not have acted that way given the surroundings and circumstances described.

[Wonka]

Paul,

Absolutely...I've said from the very start that W's comments were a real doozy. It is all there. Yet, Jon's comments started all of this. That is the real crux of the whole thing during that "date" event.

[melissag]

The subtle message to her, albeit unspoken, is that she doesn't matter and isn't valued at all.

I don't see how taking one's kids on vacation means that that person's W doesn't matter and isn't valued. (Particularly when she has filed for D.) That's the thinking of a crazy person. This same issue has happened with Jon's W a number of times - his W can't handle that he has a close R with his kids. If they are to reconcile, will he have to spend the rest of his life not mentioning his children to his W?

It reminds me of one of my (obviously insecure) college boyfriends, who got angry when I said I had to get off the phone to order a pizza. He accused me of prioritizing pizza over him. That's just cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.

And, I didn't comment on Jon's W's comment about making out with his D. That is disgusting.

I am all about DBing but there is a point where you just have to leave the crazies to their crazy, and get the hell out of the way. W obviously has some issues to work on.

[unbidden]

I agree with Wonka. The issue is not whether the W acted appropriately but whether Jon contributed to the argument and could've/should've acted differently-- if he wanted to save his M. I would've been hurt by what he did although my reactions would not have been so extreme in public.

[Wonka]

Folks, this is how the whole scenario started. How is Jon completely blameless in this?! Jon could have validated W in defusing this instead of arguing right back with her and discounting her feelings as evidenced by her previous comments about dating again, having a fantastic week, seeing counselor, etc. My point exactly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

She started texting me cute things, calling me "shnookums", etc. Friday came, and our last big date night, and we met at our favorite restaurant. She was talking about what a fantastic and amazing week we'd had, and how she was so excited, but a little nervous - she got all dolled up and looked great. She said she'd like to start dating once a week, and start counseling and really build on what we had.

We had an appetizer, and were just chit-chatting, and I told her I might be taking the kids to an island off Florida for summer vacation, and would be gone for a week.

That single innocent statement set off a nuclear explosion. She got real quiet for a second, then she said, "Well, you better take me somewhere nice." Then she sat there, and ate a bit of the appetizer, and then started ranting about how I always put the kids first, and never think of her, and it was hopeless.

[melissag]

I think the larger point is that Jon came here for support. Whatever his role in it has been, he has been through a lot with this woman he loves. Even though she continually leaves, comes back, and leaves again, he gave her another chance and spent the week with her, trying to give their M a shot. So I can understand his frustration and disappointment over his W blowing up and stomping off, yet again.

I think that kind, constructive criticism (in the context of a supportive message and maybe some empathy or validation re: how the poster feels) is helpful, but attacking a person who is hurting . . . not so much.

[Wonka]

M,

Holding a poster's feet to the fire isn't attacking at all. It is pointing out what needs to be addressed and not letting the poster off easy. Sure, it isn't fun to experience to be on the receiving end of some really tough comments from the WAS. Yet, we've all pointed out one way or the other that Jon did have a role in this and could have defused this situation early on.

We all come here for input, feedback, and insights on how to handle certain situations. To me, Jon has been DBing for quite while and I've noticed that he tends to argue right back to W instead of validating her. That has been pretty common theme in most of Jon's threads. Then he has the gumption to blame W for how she reacts when he had instigated a lot of them by his poor choice of words, timing, and what not. He needs to figure out a way to break this cycle. It is up to him.

It goes both ways. Jon needs to decide how he can change and influence how the interactions take place between him and his W. I haven't seen much growth in this regard from Jon. If you would go back to his earlier threads, you'll see this very common theme and I am trying to HELP Jon here by pointing out this very same pattern here.

I think I've said all what I wish to say here in regard to Jon's tendency to assign all blame on W for things going south. If Jon wishes to continue shooting himself in the foot, then that's his choice.

[gogofo]

If Jon wants to work of piecing, then he acted wrong. If he is ready to walk away and move on, he did nothing wrong.

They both acted incorrectly, the W said some terrible things to Jon and it would be hard to remain calm and stay with the DBing.

The comments about the W being out of line and not respecting him etc are correct, but how many times do we describe the WAS as being of clear mind? We are to assume they have been abducted by aliens and we are not to believe what they say and half of what they do. It is unfair to expect the W to act or think rationally so soon into piecing attempts.

What I hear is the W saying she wants to feel important and valued (don't know the history of the M but I assume she probably has insecurities).

I think Jon did no wrong bringing up the trip, but should have taken her response and started to dream or plan on the future. Validate her feelings and work on what could be done in the future to work on them as a couple. Jon did this, but after tempers had flared.

With so much promise and hope built up during the week I cannot help to think they both were caught off guard when relaxed on the date and those old feelings came back up.

Jon, if you want it, dust yourself off get back up and work forward with solutions.

[NTX_Dad]

Jon may have made some mistakes in this situation, but to me the W sounds a bit crazy and immature to lash out like that, make a comment about the daughter, and then just walk out, and sit in the car crying/pouting. This does not sound like the maturity of a 32 year old woman.

I'm trying to take a step back and put this in perspective of their entire history. I'm starting to sense she's very insecure and immature. She had a PA because she needed attention, spent Jon and herself into oblivion and then got upset that he wouldn't get her out of a monetary jam a couple of months ago, and now exploded when this came up. Jon was just trying to be a good father.

There does seem to be a communication problem, but it may not entirely be Jon's fault. I have been hard on Jon in the past, but I am starting to get the feeling no matter how well he DBs her, it's not going to help her at all.

[ericmsant2]

JonF

Dude…interesting debate that you have going on here….

It’s funny, I see both points of view.

I can see Wonka’s point, which (hopefully I am not mind reading here)…was to point out where she thought YOU could have done better. I probably would have said the same thing that she did to you….for example:

so I assumed[b] that didn't mean long romantic getaways

Rule # 1 [b]don’t assume. Hey I get why you did it and f*ck I’d probably would have done the EXACT same thing. I think Wonka was simply trying to point something out to you. A different perspective. A perspective geared towards a goal of RECONCILIATION.

I also see GM23’s point….

How does he feel about being with someone who thinks like that?

Gabby’s goals are IMO, a litte more than just RECONCILATION – they are goals for HOW YOU WANT TO LIVE YOUR LIFE.


Personally, I think Unbidden said it best…….

The real issue, I think, is what does he do now.

So JonF…..what is it that YOU really want to do?

Being a close to your kids is GREAT! I strive for this often (even though with a teenage daughter I do want to strangle her from time to time). My life though…is more than my kids. My life is MINE. Mine to live, enjoy, be happy and be peaceful.

That said, this should not be about what YOU did or did not do, what YOUR W did or did not do….rather….

What is it that YOU really want JonF? I like what Gabby wrote….”what kind of partner do you want to be with?” What kind of man do you really want to be? On hand, as dad’s we can love our children to death…but they will at some point the kids grow up and move out. Same can be said for a wife…. One of my fav saying is that I have 2 sons and one daughter. They will always be MY SONS and DAUGHTER…I can though have more than one wife, which FTR, I am getting ready to tie the knot for a second time (go figure).

So JonF…seriously…..what do you really want? If you are not sure, that’s okay. If you want to step off this rollercoaster? That is okay too. If you want to focus on you and the kiddos…that fine too man. This should be sooooo much about YOU now. You too JonF are entitled to be happy. You too JonF have needs and wants. What are they man?

This is all about YOU JonF. What YOU want, where and how YOU want YOUR life to be.

Whatever it is you want JonF….that what you work towards. You work towards that!

Want a different partner – work towards that.

Want a better job – work towards that.

Want to cool off and give this another shot with W – work towards that.

Want to say F it…W is crazy and I am done – work towards that.

DB….IMO, is so much more than trying to save your M. It is about learning better tools to deal with LIFE.

Whatever you decide dude – know this…….

IT WILL BE THE RIGHT DECISION!

FOR YOU….

FOR YOUR KIDS….

And

FOR YOUR WIFE….

Peace,
Eric