One year in but a newbie

[Lifes Twists]

Hi Blues,

Thanks for the input. I am keeping my communications with wife just about the kids and nothing else. Today I sent her an email setting another boundary with her. I had talked to her about our older girls picking up the cost of gas for the jeep I have loaned them when they start work. My wife felt that "we" should help them out. so since they started work I suggested to her that to be equitable she should put a tank of gas in every other week and that I would do the same. Needless to say she did not respond. Later in the day I got a call from kids that the jeep needed gas. I said I would stop over after work.

So I stop over and she is there, all dressed up and ready to go out. We talked for a few minutes. I told her that I assumed since she did not respond that she was good with the arrangement of trading off weeks for the gas. She responded that it would be hard. Then she says that the girls want to celebrate my birthday and easter together. Now, my girls never remember things like this. So my wife is planning this. yet she is heading out on a date. I can't figure this out. What a crazy ride.

[25yearsmlc]

Hi Labug,

I am in IC for myself.

Really? B/c almost all of your posts are about your wife's problems and how THOSE problems were the root of your marriage's problems. And how your lousy r's with your d's are all b/c of your wife...(as if all 3 girls, with the youngest age 14, could be blinded by lies and bias. They saw you first hand. They are witnesses and their feedback about what you can or ought to work on, would be very valuable to get and hear....b/c I have not yet read a thing about what you are specifically working on in you...

I have done a lot of searching, reading and educating myself about depression over the years. I have also educated myself on the long term affects of ADs. I have tried to have conversations with my wife and tried to share with her what I have learned.

This is you treating her?? See anything off about that?


Her response is to not want to discuss it and to tell me that I have a hang up over her depression and being on ADs. When I sit there and watch her consuming larger and and larger amount of alcohol, involuntary shakes and twitching I get scared and concerned and try again to talk to her. Again I am rebuffed.When I approached her family about it I am again rebuffed. I have tried to get her to see the issues with her illness and try and get the help she needs and I am rebuffed.

I am not trying to fix her depression. What I want for her is to get her into the type of counseling where she will learn skills to deal with her depression.

What is the difference between you not trying to fix her, and yet wanting her to go to C that you approve of so she can work on her depression? What exactly is it, that you are working on, in YOU?

Unfortunately she refuses that type of counseling and rather wants to find the type of counselor who supports her beliefs and does not help her to find solutions.

You mean a counselor who agrees with you?

My immediate goal is to get our mutual responsibilities cleaned up and get my personal life less cluttered. We have a house that is under construction and cannot be sold till it has a certificate of occupancy for the un finished portions.I am also trying to work on the relationship with my daughters.I always thought we had respectful conversations where we listened to each other. The problem I found out is that I listened and then offered solutions or tried to fix the issues myself. I did not realize that at times she only wanted to be listened to. I think a lot of men have this issue. One of my 180s is to listen to her and not offer a solution unless she asks for it.

then see your above comments....

I am reading the books, working on myself and doing 180s. I am in IC and one the the things I am working on is why do I want to save this marriage. I continue to DB while I try and answer this question for myself.

So your "issue" that you are working on, is you wondering about why you want to stay married?

That's your personal work? Or the not fixing others? I hope this doesn't come across as a cold slap in the face, but for someone IN counseling to only talk about OR MOSTLY about others problems, is incredibly deflective and avoidant.

I can only speak to what I see you writing here and it's as if you are not responsible for anything significant. you give lip service to "trying to fix/solve problems" but even you don't believe that is a flaw. More like a mistake in tactics.

But the thing is that 90% of women taking ADs have h's whom they describe as "controlling" and or, "critical". They might all be wacky crazy women in menopause...but to me, from your words here, you sound like you are both.

So, did it ever occur to you that you might play a role in your w's depression?

I mean, rather than blaming the ADs, the lazy doctors or the evil greedy pharmaceutical industry, and your w for turning your d's against you,

you could look in the mirror and dig a lot deeper. Your w and d's were in a 2 bedroom apartment while you remained in the house and instead of feeling the least bit guilty about that, you seemed to relish the discomfort they'd feel as if that "taught them a lesson". But it's NOT a spouses's job to teach their partner lessons in life.

As my DB coach said, "Let life do that for them".

Just a suggestion.

[25yearsmlc]

IS your wife paying for the girl's college? All or some? They are your biological daughters, right?

I keep hearing how SHE was turned down as a co-signer for their school loans and how they may want to go out of state (typical of many that age and it has been a LONG hard winter up in the NE this year too), but I hear about how your spends too much, yet you are "barely scraping by"...(do you spend too much?)

Since I have heard nothing from you or about your contributions to the college issue I can't say much but I have to ask you, when you say you cannot afford to "help her" -- it seems to me that you would have been paying mostly the same things, if she had remained married to you, correct?

What is it that is costing you more, than before? The apartment down the road? Your wife earns something, right? And The main house in getting rehabbed, so I guess it's still not habitable or is just for you or what? What was the plan for where everyone was going to live?

And how would your family know that you won't have another "reaction" to medication that you had last year? You glossed over that incredibly fast and I'm sorry to bring up what must be a painful memory (or hazy memory).

But for the police to come (more than once), and for you to be committed to a psychiatric care, says a lot more about your behavior than it does your wife's,

although you blamed her for you not being able to go home ("the doctor did not believe my wife would take care of me"....is btw, something I cannot believe a doctor would tell a psychiatric patient)...And while you focus on HER issues and tell her that (which you say you are no longer doing but your tone here suggests otherwise. She continues to be the focus of your posts, or rather HER FLAWS are....and imo, this is not new behavior of yours.)

And as for visiting colleges and working out the sleeping arrangements, and spending, ahead of time, yes to me you sound controlling and needlessly so.
La Bug mentioned that but I didn't see you reply to her comments...


IF your wife had wanted to share a bed with you...well, why did you rule it out preemptively?

What was the real goal? DIG DEEP...

I can't help but think you were hitting her first, "in case". What if you put your dukes down and just stay in your sandbox? As in, not in her sandbox? You know, just work on YOUR stuff for awhile...like at least go 90 days...

How about going 90 days without mentioning her issues/flaws/errors and just talk about YOUR GAL, and what your personal flaws are that you would like to improve upon.

What specifically, are the traits you working on, in YOUR LIFE?

[Lifes Twists]

Hi 25mlc,

I thank you for your comments. Maybe I can clarify somethings.

first point, last year I was put on a powerful steroid called prednisone.The doctor told my wife that I would begin acting crazy, which go on for a period of time. This was going to amount to about 10 weeks of time. What I endured was extreme swings of my emotions from as high as I could be to as low as I could be. I was also awake for days as a time and could have probably mowed my 2 acre lawn with a push mower in about 15 minutes.It was extreme and I have met others since who have had the same kind of reactions to the medication. I would have been better off being hospitalized for the duration rather than under my families care as they could not handle me or my reaction. I would not wish prednisone on anyone.

Point 2, I did want to participate in the decisions concerning payment for my oldest's college education. My wife shut me out of it and did what she did against my recommendations. She took out a parent loan rather than a student loan. This loan along with 2 maxed out credit cards she has accrued since moving out along with late payments and over drawn accounts has destroyed her credit. This year we had agreed to each cosign a student loan for our two older daughters now that two will be in college. She was denied and I have had to cosign both loans.

point 3, I chose not to share a bed with her at the advice of my IC. She felt that I should not even consider it.

In regards to finances, we lived on two checks. Now I pay for all the house expenses along with additional expense generated because she moved out. I have 3 girls and can't allow them to suffer because of wife's decisions. Believe me, if I could completely walk away from this right now and leave her on her own I would. Yesterday she text me at 7 am while I was heading to work. She is getting rid of the dog she insisted on getting the girls when they moved out. Unfortunately the girls are very attached to him and I am having to step in the take him in and get him trained. I also have to go down and clean the carpets in the apartment as the dog has urinated all over the place and the place smells and is unhealthy at this point. Mean while my wife is more concerned about spending easter with a male friend and his family. My older two have decided to go their own way for easter and not deal with it. I asked the youngest what she wanted to do as her mother was pressing her to go along with her to some strangers house. She decided she would rather go to six flags for the day. I am taking her and spending the day with her. Wife is very angry about this right now.

I am trying to put some distance between us without the girls getting hurt.

In regards to my personal flaws and what I am working on,I have been working on my physical health and have lost 40 lbs so far with a goal of 55lbs bringing me to 195 lbs. I am working on my listening skills and learning not to be Mr fix it when I can. I am working on improving my relationship with my daughters. I am also trying to finish the house which is still under construction and can't be sold till it gets a final CO from the building inspector. The house only has a partial CO which allowed us to live in part of it while I finished the remainder. Now some other family will enjoy my efforts. I am reading a lot of self help books to improve myself as well.

[Dad2Fiv]

Did you avoid divorce papers ? How did it go so long between filing and receiving?

[Lifes Twists]

So Easter weekend was interesting. Originally I was told she and my youngest would be spending Easter with her sister. That wasn't a problem since it was family. Then an issue came up with the dog they got and we had to have a family meeting to discuss it. That was resolved, but I found out that supposedly her plans fell through. I asked what they were doing and she said she had an invitation. I said if its with the OM then I would prefer to have youngest with me for Easter. She got angry and started bad mouthing my family in front of the kids and why would youngest want to have Easter with them. I did not react, rather looked at my three girls and told them they were growing up. They would not be spending every holiday with either my wife or myself as part of growing up. I said they had the right to choose and did not have to go with either of us if it was uncomfortable for them. My youngest thought a bit and decided she wanted to hang with my oldest at six flags where oldest is working. I suggested I could go with her since her sister would be working and she could hang out all day. She agreed. I think what my wife said sunk in with the girls a bit and how she attack their grandparents. On Sunday my youngest called and said she had changed her mind and was going to spend Easter with me and her grandparents. My wife had to do her own thing without any of the kids.

Today I picked up my youngest and took her to go get fishing supplies. We were going to go fishing but it is raining too hard. When we pulled in to drop her off, I noticed a car pulling in and a guy got out and went towards the door of apartment. I had pulled in next to him. I heard his phone go off and he turned around and went back to his car. I asked daughter if that was OM. She said yes. So I backed out and went to another part of complex till they left. Then went in with daughter and set up fishing poles for tomorrow.

How have people handled this in the past? How have you reacted?
Did I handle this correctly by driving off and not going about my business with daughter?

I could tell the guy looked a bit nervous and hesitant when he got the text from wife and then figured out it was me in the next car.

[Lifes Twists]

I got a call from my youngest about 3 this afternoon. She believed she had broken her toe and no one was home. I went over immediately. I asked her where her medical card was so I could take her to hospital. She said her mother had it and she had tried calling and texting her. I tried as well and got no answer either till about 6 pm. She was on a date. She was mad that I did not take daughter to hospital. I told her it was not life threatening or i would have regardless of where card was. I asked her to leave copies of the cards in the future so I would be able to handle these issues without her being bothered.

what do you do with a WAS if they are so busy getting their own life that they can ignore text and phone calls from a multiple of their kids? How do you respond to this?

[Lifes Twists]

So today I took youngest daughter fishing at her request. We had a good time for her first time. Planning on going again next weekend.

I will be helping my middle daughter with her trig homework at her request. My wife tried to talk me out of helping her with her homework because wife is mad at me.

Apparently when I went to the apartment yesterday after my youngest and I went to pick up fishing supplies, we arrived when OM was picking wife up. Apparently this made him feel uncomfortable and ruined their date and I am to blame for that. I told wife that if daughter has said we should stay away for now I would have. Instead daughter said wife was out doing errands. She felt that it was weird me waiting till thy left to go in with daughter to set up poles for today. I told her that she needs to communicate so this does not happen as I have no interest in meeting her OM.Then she laid into me because my daughter and later I had the nerve to call her multiple time s to try and reach her to get daughters medical card since she may have broken her toe and called me because she could not reach her mother. Apparently I was trying to make her look like a bad mother because I wanted to take care of my daughter and did not have access to her medical card. I told her that if she wasn't going to leave them in the apartment where they could be accessed then I wanted copies for myself as I did not enjoy what happened. Of course it was all still my fault.

How do you deal with this craziness?

[MrCAS]

I think you handled the OM thing pretty darn good. A lot of people in your position might have acted poorly but you took the high road. Good on you!

As far as ruining their date? Pffftttt... That is their issue. It certainly isn't yours.

The things she said are all script. It will be about you and not them... Keep handling it with good grace...

[Lifes Twists]

Ok, you can get out the 2 x 4 and hit me over the head, but I felt I needed to respond to my wife with my concerns about what she did and my daughters well being. I thought for about 24 hours before sending wife the following email this morning,

"I have taken some time to think and reflect about things rather than reacting immediately as I may have done in the past. There are a couple things that concern me greatly about this past weekend. I hope that you will read this and think about without a first reaction of anger but take what I am saying with the same thought and consideration I have tried to put into it.

The first being that you feel it is alright to turn your phone off completely, rather than in vibrate mode, so that you become unavailable to the kids when away for several hours. I never would think that a parent would make themselves completely unavailable without making sure that someone else was available. You are probably saying to yourself that I used to disappear at the museum. Yes I was tough to get a hold of at the museum and it was not the right thing for me to do, but I always felt I left the kids in trusted and responsible hands. Both Lacey and I thought you just did not hear your phone. She must have dialed your number at least 10 times while I was there. Neither of us would even have considered that you just turned it off. With the ability to put it in vibrate mode and at least monitor it in case of an emergency why any parent would just shut it off is beyond consideration.

The second issue is that the kids feel they have to cover for you and lie for you is troubling. The example being set for them that it is alright to be sneaky and lie bothers me greatly. When Lacey said she did not have her key I headed to the apartment directly so she could get one. When I asked her if you would be there she said you might be out on errands. She clearly knew what you were going to be doing. She should not be put in the middle and pressed to lie and cover up for you.

I may not have been the best father and husband in the past. In terms of being a good father I am trying my hardest now to set a good example for the girls of what a father and man should be.

I am disappointed that you only were upset for your self and that it all was about you. I hope you think about this a bit and consider how you would feel today if Lacey had been more seriously hurt and no one was available. Please be the mother that I know you can be.Right now it almost appears that you are pulling away from the kids as much as you have pulled away from me.


With the deepest concern and consideration"

This was not meant to attack her or control her. My concern is for my daughters well being. I am sure this will be a set back, but I felt it warranted some response since this is not the first time she has taken off for a long period and turned off her phone and does not respond or check in with my daughters nor tell me she will not be in contact and out of the area. Let me know if I should have approached it in a different fashion.