Thanks for stopping by tbone. I appreciate your wisdom. Hindsight really is 20/20 isn't it? I would just like to step outside the situation for a moment and see what it is. Unfortunately, that's impossible, so I count on you guys.
Quoting tbone:Please, please, please don't snoop. All it did was kill my PMA most times I did it and for no good reason. It made me suspicious again and no matter how hard I tried to hide it, it showed in my interactions with her.
This rings very true, tbone. I guess I simply have to trust that she will take care of her side of our R. If not...well, I guess I'll know soon enough.
Quoting tbone:I think your R is heading in a very positive direction but it will continue to be a struggle. I think you are closer to your goals than you do.
I do hope you are right. In some ways I can see this, but in other ways, it's same 'ole same 'ole. Basically, the "love you, but not in love with you" thing. Did you experience this also a year ago?
Quoting Char:didn't know I am a guitar player did you?
Didn't know you were, but I am. Methinks you hit an A minor (ha ha).
Quoting Char:I don't know your W, but since she is there, and is trying to "do" whatever she can to "get right", then she absolutely must be trying to work out whatever feelings pertaining to om. If you want her to love you, you have to let her make that choice all by herself. Otherwise, it'll be 1/2 @$$ed and based on fear rather than open and actually "hers".
Yes, I see this a bit more clearly now. Still yet another reason not to bring up the snooping thing... BTW, my W doesn't use a password. I wish I could add one for her to prevent temptation, but that would be a little obvious.
Quoting Char:sorry jethro
It's okay. I have to count on you to set me straight, as you tend to provide a good counter-pose to my precarious stance.
I searched and read a little of your posts but with so many it is hard to find the whole story. I am assuming your W left and came back. What is the story on that and the keys to making it happen. I would appreciate your stopping by my thread on the MLC bb and your thoughts on the e-mail I received.
Hi, Jethro...Your W seems to be really committed to your R/M, from what you're saying. Before I read this last post (I was behind by a day or so), I was about to tell you that you & SBH should discuss the value of snooping.
He was suspicious of me, and did some computer geek ghost-monitoring of my computer (mind you, SBH is NOT a geek, I just like to tease him b/c he's gotten so into the computer stuff - he's smart and pretty much of a james dean rebellious guy...I'm just glad he loves me and the kids enough to keep his life safe these days...heh, heh) and found out my password quite easily and looked at my account. But he also pointed out that I was getting more open about being on the computer, switching screens as soon as he walked into the room, locking the door (ostensibly to keep the rugrats out, but he knew better), etc. So he had supporting evidence to "justify" the snoop. And he felt perhaps I wanted to be caught. You know, I really did. I was getting more aware of how AWFUL the OM was, and really needed help getting out of the situation.
SO, now knowing that your W doesn't even use a password - perhaps SHE wants to get caught, too? Wants you to know some of these things, without having to face you directly? It can be subtle - I did it when OM came to my therapy appt - rather than directly email SBH, I posted about it, figuring if he read it that would be his choice, if I emailed it to him it would be my fault - didn't want to disturb him at work, etc. My therapist (who is excellent) said I was being passive aggressive. And, after getting over the ouch of having someone call me that, I realized she was right.
But, it's still difficult to address feelings face to face. E.g. my recent email-coffee-with-former-client situation. I thought I should deal with it myself, b/c I knew it would hurt SBH, and I really knew I couldn't meet the guy for coffee - but I still needed some support in telling him no, and finally asked for it. Only to find out that these are the things SBH wants to hear about up front - and the things I learned from that situation were so valuable! I will tell him these things right when they happen, face whatever feelings I have about enjoying the attention from another male, and deal with them w/in my M!!!!!
My attitude of wanting to deal with the coffee thing myself was based partly on not wanting to face conflict with SBH, but also on not wanting to hurt him any more, partciularly since I knew I wasn't going to have coffee with the guy...I think your W is moving in the direction of being able to learn these lessons, as well. My first M was a "friendship" relationship. I definitely married him b/c I was lonely and depressed. So I know it can happen. BUT, I also know that I put up barriers b/c of intimacy issues, and those barriers DO make you "feel" like you don't really love someone. The barriers make you feel like you just have friendship for the person, b/c when you get intimate it is so uncomfortable. You make it the other person's fault, b/c it is daunting to think that you might have to try to fix the underlying cause w/in yourself. I know I didn't really believe it could be fixed until sometime last fall.
So, your W has a lot of scary issues to face. Keep up your GREAT work! I don't know if you saw the Mother Theresa quote I put on MAL's thread in MLC, but it echoes tbone's statement "if you trust too much you may be deceived, but if you trust too little you will be tormented"
If you can't find it on MAL's thread, let me know & I'll type it for you here...The key part to it for you, I think, is something like - if you trust people they will take advantage of you, trust them anyway....you see, it never was between you and them anyway, it is between you and God.
BTW, SBH is a writer and keeps a journal. When I was growing up, my parents made it clear they would not read any notes I wrote or got from my friends, or snoop through my room...and they never did. Ever since SBH & I first got together I have made it clear to him that I will NEVER read his journal, no matter where he leaves it lying, because I, too, am a writer, and I understand the need for complete privacy of the thoughts and feelings you put down on paper.
So, in my world, you would not snoop. Now, in my world, I never would have had an affair, either, so I can't say I WOULDN'T snoop, although, after having an A, I understand more completely the need to follow my principles no matter what! My theory - there are things that make you feel you need to snoop. Discuss THOSE with your W, rather than snooping. YOu'll probably get to the same place without breaching anyone's privacy or tormenting yourself...
Words to ponder, just my HO, of course!
Hey - try typing 3 good things for the day - LL & I are having good success with this...for me it has bled over into looking at lots of things more positively in my life.
I didn't bring up the e-mail thing with my W last night. We ended up having a really nice evening...gave her a nice massage in candlelight and that led to @#$%. I've decided...I mean really decided...to just chill for a while and enjoy the ride, let my W come around in her own time. I think she will. I just need to make it easier for her to do so.
Yes, I'm upset about her lying, but after reading everyone's responses, I can see why she'd do it. I do know that she isn't cheating on me anymore, and it seems she has less and less feelings for OM...but as JJ says, I'm sure those will still occasionally rise to the surface here and there. She keeps telling me (and did so again last night) that she feels so responsible for my feelings. I believe that lets me know why she hasn't told me how she's run into OM a couple of times.
I want to thank everyone for keeping me straight. I REALLY needed the help yesterday.
Quote: SO, now knowing that your W doesn't even use a password - perhaps SHE wants to get caught, too? Wants you to know some of these things, without having to face you directly?
No, I don't think so. She and I are also writers and she leaves her journals out too. Oddly enough, I wouldn't think of snooping in her journal, but with e-mail it's okay?!?! Can't tell you why I have this odd boundary. Perhaps it's because I know her journal will expose REALLY deep things that are truly private while her e-mails with her divorcee friend just let me know more of the goings-on in her mind. Does that make sense?
Quote: My first M was a "friendship" relationship. I definitely married him b/c I was lonely and depressed. So I know it can happen. BUT, I also know that I put up barriers b/c of intimacy issues, and those barriers DO make you "feel" like you don't really love someone. The barriers make you feel like you just have friendship for the person, b/c when you get intimate it is so uncomfortable.
Yeah, she's even admitted to this. She's gone as far to say that perhaps she'd have intimacy issues with anyone. However, there remains that nagging thought in the back of her head that says she hasn't had enough life experiences with other men. Thing is, this is her deal. I have no control over it and just need to provide her the space to figure it out. Problem is, I frequently get to a point of wondering why I should wait for her to figure this out when my own life is slipping by and could find another mate who does love me. I know, not entirely healthy.
I'll look for the Mother Theresa quote.
Quote: My theory - there are things that make you feel you need to snoop. Discuss THOSE with your W, rather than snooping. YOu'll probably get to the same place without breaching anyone's privacy or tormenting yourself...
VERY good point! We did end up discussing the things that led me to snoop the other night and yesterday morning. I know she feels better about our discussion...at least that's what she's telling me... Oddly enough, our discussion wouldn't have been so intense had I not snooped. Oh well...
Quote: I frequently get to a point of wondering why I should wait for her to figure this out when my own life is slipping by and could find another mate who does love me.
I said the same thing while in mc recently and our c said, "everyone after age 30 has a lot of baggage," meaning i should stay with the bag i have and work on the m.
just kiddin sam, you are definitely not a bag!!!!
i am certain the point is that a much deeper relationship can be formed if we can forgive our spouses and help unload some of the weight they are carrying. it is much more preferable to do that than to start again with somebody new, discover how much baggage he or she has, and try not to go through the same cycle again.
Sorry I missed all that you went thru here lately, but I don't believe I could have offered anything of value above the great advise you had already received ... and glad to see its help you smooth over this patch ... and I believe soon you'll see it was just a bump in the road but you will continue on from here to yet better times together.
I'm glad to read about the recent progress. Happy to hear that you %&%$#@! the other night. That is a great sign. Keep up the good work and we will all hope that your hard fought efforts will continue to bring you those baby steps that we are all seeking. "Put one foot in front of the other...and soon you'll be walking very far." Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer animated Feature?
I have to say I will chime in on the side of trying to stop the snooping. I know it is incredibly hard to resist that drink from the "she doesn't share her feelings with me desert." But, I think the sips that you get this way are not quenching your thirst in the long run. (Sorry for the corny metaphor!)
Keep up the good work!
Would you mind a shameless plug for my sitch while I'm here? LR23 - Newcomer
Can't tell you why I have this odd boundary. Perhaps it's because I know her journal will expose REALLY deep things that are truly private while her e-mails with her divorcee friend just let me know more of the goings-on in her mind. Does that make sense? 
