Thread #8 - It's time.

[Navyguy]

Yup, bullseye.

Geez, I really need to update my signature. D6 has been 7 for 3 months now.

[25yearsmlc]

Navy

did she ever comment on changes in you after the EE workshop? (BTW I'm doing team next week).

And do you think SHE would ever consider going and working on learning how SHE can make herself happier?

B/C unless she makes a significant paradigm shift, I don't see her changing enough.

And a major shift won't LIKELY take place with regular marriage counselling... or even with ICs who are good, b/c we get interrupted b/c we only talk for an hour a week.

When I'd make a breakthrough or have a real insight, the hour would be "up" and i had to go back to work or pick up my kids and go home. The growth is very fragmented.

It's not "efficient" for growth and breakthroughs, like a long weekend of Retrovaille can be, or a personal growth workshop like EE is.

And she doesn't sound as if she's ready for Retrovaille. Hence my question about HER going to a workshop FOR HER and not "for the marriage", per se.

I say all this b/c I feel as if most of the marital problems today are hers, in origin.

WE know you were not perfect, but you sound as if you've been damn close for some time now.

It's her turn to grow and try, isn't it?

And more importantly, What are you ready to do if she's not interested or able?

[Navyguy]

Hey 25! Nope, she's never commented specifically on my changes after EE - other than noticing how I had "given up and that made it easier for her to try to work on our M".

Have fun this weekend! I definitely plan to go back and do team sometime when life has settled down a bit.

I had a talk with W last night. She sensed something was up and asked what was going on, so I told her this:

"I am having a hard time figuring out where we are at and thinking about it is wearing on me. I'm not sure if you're committed to making our M work. I understand that the feelings will take time, and as long as I know you are committed to our M, I will have all the patience in the world.

I think the things you percieve as me being needy or pushy are actually things I am doing to try to figure that out. And if I know that you're committed, I won't have to fish for that answer anymore."

I told her she didn't need to answer right now. I'll give her a few days to process and if she hasn't brought it up by then, I'll follow up.

I'm not sure if she would consider a workshop like EE. I think she is a bit intrigued by it, but we haven't really talked much about it. It did come up when we were in Colorado over Christmas. W found out one of her good friends is headed toward a D - Of course, I haven't heard his side, but he sounds like a real dirtbag.

He strung her along for about 10 years. She finally left him, he came crawling back with a bunch of promises and asked her to M him. She fell for it, and of course he didn't follow through on any of the promises he made - and now he wants a D since she had the gall to hold him accountable for his promises.

Anyways, I recommended that maybe EE would be good for W's friend - she is a great person and seems like someone that really doesn't understand what she wants in life or what she deserves. W and I talked about it quite a bit, but I don't think she ever said anything to her friend about it.

So, to get to the point, I bring up subtle reminders about EE when I have the opportunity. Maybe someday W will decide she wants to give it a shot.

To answer your last 2 questions:

Yes, it is W's turn to grow and try. (not excusing myself from continuing to do so though!)

If she's not interested, I'll simply tell her that I'm not interested in being married to someone that won't make our M a priority in her life.

If she's not able - that's a tougher question - I haven't really thought about that much since I have no indication that she's tried and failed. I think the answer is the same in the end - I don't deserve to be in an unfulfilling M, and I'd need to free myself from it.

[25yearsmlc]

I agree that the answer IS the same in the end, Navy.

You do deserve the marriage you want, and need, and put effort into.

IF she's not, (and can you tell me how she is, other than saying she might want to work on it BUT doesn't FEEL it yet??)

then you know that greater things are around the corner for you regardless of HER actions.

[Navyguy]

25 - There have been some small changes in her actions...baby steps...but nothing that has shown me she has chosen to be "in" our M.

I plan to follow up with her tonight on last week's conversation.

[25yearsmlc]

good luck man. Are you sticking with an "action plan" or staying in touch with your buddy?

I only ask to see if the follow up is helping you maintain clarity. No pressure.

Just, never forget that you deserve to be loved. If the partner isn't "aware" of it by now, or capable of it, do what you gotta do. Life is short.

[Navyguy]

25, hope the weekend went well. I hope you're taking today off.

I haven't done a good job staying in touch with my buddy - I think for the same reason I haven't been on here much. I needed a break from the drama and thinking about and analyzing my sitch all the time. I am still going to IC and that definitely helps maintain clarity...she has been great.

I will admit my clarity took a hit when W put the brakes on separating. This "push-pull" cycle we are in is crazy. I pull away, W wants to work on M. I start acting like we're M, she wants to pull away. We have been getting along pretty well, but I still see this cycle at work. Not good.

I have not had the follow-up convo with W yet. No good excuse other than me being a big chicken. Definitely have to do it before IC on Thursday though.

Lack of intimacy is really becoming a big issue for me. After a brief stint following the holidays, we are back near 1 month with no ML and no visible affection from W. Saturday night W and I played a card game until about midnight and had a good time. Once we got in bed I tried initiating, and got rejected...again. At this point, am I rushing things or expecting too much by trying to get her interested in ML? A marriage without intimacy is not something I'm interested in.

Things are tough for me today. I'm very frustrated with W and pissed off at myself for letting things get back to where I feel this way.

[Starsky309]

Navy, what does she say when she rejects you?


Starsky

[Navyguy]

Typically it's either "hmmmph" or "what time is it", followed by rolling over.

The last time we actually talked about it was when she told me "given what we've just been through, she's not ready for it and that it makes her feel pressured to do something she doesn't want to do".

[Starsky309]

Have you told her that you have no intention of living in a sexless marriage?