One more question if I may 25yearsmlc, in LuckyLukes Upstairs/Downstairs post you posted a bunch of tips on what not do do when the Bomb is dropped. I find myself doing some of those but we're talking about working this out, not working apart at the moment so not sure how far to go with some of that stuff. Like texting. W was getting several texts a day from OG, now nothing, I sort of feel like I should fill in the hole a bit here but not sure how far to go.
Coming back together is tough but there are hugs. I've forgiven her but not getting a sense of gravity/remorse from her,
please do NOT expect this^^^ soon...IF ever. She may well have felt you pushed her into his arms and may blame YOU for the affair. She definitely felt justified. So don't forget that.
You are getting more than most men get here; ie., a 2nd chance. Don't blow it b/c you don't think she's expressing enough remorse...
And don't mindread...
just work on YOU and YOUR Stuff.
Stay in your sandbox and out of hers. Make sense?
she was so happy with him and unhappy with me and she's still churning it all over. She told me today how she's missing that attention. this^^ is valuable data, as I've said before. She out & out TOLD you...have you read "The Five Love Languages" yet? Please do - I suggest it for all couples.
I want to write her a love letter. I don't have the books yet, don't know if this is a good idea.
So let go of waiting for remorse from her --or it being expressed to you. She's got inner conflicts she's working on now...some "uneasy truces" that have to be resolved, with time.
She's going through a lot right now and the worst thing to do is make her feel she made the wrong choice to stay.
Keep the road home, paved and smooth. For you, do "the math" and remember
Consistent change + sufficient time = changes she can believe in.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
One more question if I may 25yearsmlc, in LuckyLukes Upstairs/Downstairs post you posted a bunch of tips on what not do do when the Bomb is dropped. Not sure if you are referring to GAL things (which I suggest for nearly ALL LBSers)
or if you mean the type of 180s for him. I do NOT see your sitch and his as being alike...
in fact you seem close to the opposite, so your approach would vary. You are not being cast aside by your wife for being too weak, but she feels you are too controlling.
You seem to think she's got a valid point...so what are you doing about THAT?
I find myself doing some of those but we're talking about working this out, not working apart at the moment so not sure how far to go with some of that stuff. Like texting. W was getting several texts a day from OG, now nothing, I sort of feel like I should fill in the hole a bit here but not sure how far to go.
she had unmet needs...and yes, it is your job, at some point, to fill them.
But Does she feel pressured by you? I don't get that impression, but maybe??
What I think of when a woman tells her h that she misses OM's attention
is that she's saying she needs more from you than you are giving.
Why not go to her work and take her out to lunch, send flowers to her (yes, at work) and such?
Look your best absolutely. Court her...
Make sure you do something positive for her on Valentine's Day and IMO (maybe others will weigh in differently)
but IMO, the more "public" it is (like at work) the happier most women are...it validates their choice of mate and says to the world, "we're still TOGETHER & not afraid to show it"...etc
Just some suggestions.
And btw, What were you like when you dated? When she fell in love with you, how were you different than you are now?
Can you be that guy again?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Ok, here's a quick update. It's a whirlwind at the moment. We have another counseling session in a couple of days. I'm working on the courting/dating, bought her flowers, sending more texts, looking into her eyes when I'm talking, reading 5LOL and DR. At worst I come out of this understanding how women should be treated and elevated more than I had ever realized and also learning a ton about my own shortcomings. We're talking a lot, both still uncertain but I'm taking ACT AS IF approach and it seems to be working. Still working through DR, there's some great stuff in there, my only barrier is time, it can't all happen at once. Making some small change as well, open the door for her, always put the toilet seat down, try and always be affirmative, tidying the place up a lot more than I used to. Hopefully this stuff is making a difference.
We got out of town for a couple of days, it was really nice. We talked quite a bit and she suggested we go look for a book on affair recovery, which we did and have started reading together. Very insightful into each others perspective. There's been a couple of difficult moments, a few words of hurt have come out of both of us but we've apologised and made up. I'm really trying not to make any negative comments, a couple have slipped out though and I instantly regretted it.
We're meeting up for coffee a lot more, now I want to see her laugh more and I think ACT AS IF is the key here.
Apparantly the lies don't stop. So it's been over two weeks since this all started, we've been going through counseling etc. per the previous posts. We had session yesterday, which was good, started digging into some of the background as to how we got to where we are.
BUT earlier this week she went to the shops for half a day as they had rung her with a special offer. Remember, it's all supposed to be on hold with OG at the moment. Now I find a gift card in her purse from Christmas, it wasn't an offer from the shops, it was a present from OG. So she had lied to me about this. I'm thinking I might throw in the towel on this, if she can't be honest with me now it's out in the open and she had promised to be straight with everything, I'm struggling to see the point in continuing even though we're still in the same bed.
Noooo! I know how you are feeling, but don't make any knee jerk decisions! It will be a long road, and most likely you will discover more lies before it gets better. Bring the gift card up in counseling and let her know it hurt you. Don't fly off the handle, it will only serve to convince her that YOU have not changed.
Our counselor recommended a book titled "After The Affair" for my wife to read. She was sobbing after reading the first part of the book- it really made her see the depth of the pain she had caused.
At the end of the day, however, she is a WAW, and the affair was a result of pain that your W felt for years. It's hard, I know, but most of the effort for a long time to come will have to be from you. Part of that effort is maintaining an even keel.
I wish you all the best, and pray that you will be a success story on this board some day.
Remember, it's all supposed to be on hold with OG at the moment. Now I find a gift card in her purse from Christmas, it wasn't an offer from the shops, it was a present from OG. So she had lied to me about this. I'm thinking I might throw in the towel on this, if she can't be honest with me now it's out in the open and she had promised to be straight with everything, I'm struggling to see the point in continuing even though we're still in the same bed.
Is that all it will take for you to call it quits? Maybe you're right. Maybe you should just go ahead and throw in the towel. But throw it in based on the fact you don't have what it takes to get through this....but don't base it on what you see as a lie.
First of all, how do you know she lied? Is it solely on the fact you found a gift card in her purse that was a Christmas gift from OM?
Why were you looking in her purse, and where exactly was the card?
You did say it was a gift card? Not a receipt, right?
Where I come from, the gift card purchases something in the shop for whatever amount the card holds. It's used like a check. Therefore, she would have to leave the card with the shop if she was using it to purchase something.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
How bad was it before? Honestly, I thought not all that bad. There was never any physical violence, we went to dinner's, I bought flowers every now and then, romantic surprises. But we argued regularly, a lot of financial frustrations and the conversation would often end with me throwing up my hands and saying stuff like, 'you're an idiot'.
IMO, that's pretty bad stuff! It's bad when a couple argues regularly. It's bad when one spouse calls the other spouse names. You've admitted you didn't build her up and shot down her self-esteem. Is there any wonder she might feel special when another man talks sweetly to her?
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Forgive? I don't know, I think so.
I hope you'll listen very carefully to what I'm about to tell you. If you think forgiving her for the A is a one time thing.....you're very mistaken. As hard as it is to forgive her for having an affair, it gets harder. Know why? B/c you have to continue forgiving her over & over & over again. You have only began on this extremely difficult journey, and I can tell you that it's going to make you realize what you're made of before the hurting stops. Every time something reminds you of the A, or maybe she'll have a far away look in her eyes, or you won't be able to reach her on the phone as quick as you think you should......all these little things that makes your mind jump back to what she's done.....then you'll have to forgive her again.
Resentment? Anger? Mistrust? Bitterness? All these things are capable of over taking your soul and ruining the rest of your life. Love, acceptance, and forgiveness is what you will need to find in your own heart before you can find it in hers.
As good as her intentions are about ending the A, her addiction and her emotional needs will not cooperate nearly as well as her intentions. She will be sorely tested to return to the one who made her feel pretty, smart, sexy, and every other wonderful way that she wasn't getting from the man she M. And, as someone pointed out, the A didn't fizzle out in its own speed, but was interrupted. So how many times will she wonder "what if"? Every time you call her an idiot and stupid!!! That's how many! Every time she's reminded that you don't appreciate her, or when you start to get tired of being on good behavior and buying flowers......that's how many. Every time you doubt her, question her, treat her shabby, accuse her, and bring up the A....that's how many! Every time she feels lonely, shut out, ignored, and devalued.....that's how many.
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She lied about this, she could as easily lie about not hearing from him again.
She could, yes. She was very vulnerable when the EA started, and she's still vulnerable. That's why she will need a lot of support and encouragement. Most of all, she needs to believe a future with you is much better than with OM. I think that requires a lot of positive action on your part.
Remember what you said about how often she went to the train station to get you when your sorry a$$ was so drunk you couldn't get home by yourself? And, she kept doing that for how many years? What's incredible to me is how she didn't nag you about the disrespect you continued to show her, heck she didn't even question your actions. But, you're going to question her, aren't you?
Yes, you have a trust issue. Anyone reading your thread (even before you knew she had an A) would know that, and you admitted it. So, that's going to be extra tough for you. But if you want this MR to survive, you've got to show her you choose to trust her. Don't act as her judge & jury. Don't try to punish her. Believe me, she'll do enough of that to herself.
I suggest you get counseling just by yourself. Maybe she needs IC, too. If you have a pro-M C, then seeing him/her together would probably help. But both of you need guidance and an A recovery program to work with you on a very frequent basis.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Our counselor recommended a book titled "After The Affair" for my wife to read.
Funny we went into a bookshop to buy a book for a friend and whilst there W suggested we find a book to help us a bit and we picked that one up. We've been reading it together, it's on the money and we're discussing the stuff it raises, we're still working through it.
sandi2 I do hear you and I know the trust problem is mine. The arguments I've 180'd on and that was a realisation I came to before finding out about the EA/PA. The counseling is starting to address some of the behaviour patterns in both of us that had led to that.
The part I struggle with the most is that they are in the same working environment. They are in different departments but knowing that OG can wait it out and build the friendship again slowly, sitting in the bushes ready to pounce on our first argument is doing my head in. She's said it's finished but I feel naive thinking that they won't start talking again, build a little friendship, and how hard is to be back at square one. At least if it wasn't someone at work I'd know there would have to be active pursuit, but in the work environment it can be slow, continual and relatively passive. Knowing that he can walk past, give her a smile, a little wave, says to me that instead of her being able to get on and look at us with an independant perspective she will always have that reminder right in her face. That's driving me insane, yes my issue, but it doesn't mean I'm capable of dealing with it properly.
