I spent all night with XW..........on the phone

[sunshinelewis]

25 i am a little confused as to what you said to Tad about not being MLC because she left her home and kids?
I thought this was part of MLC. Can you explain please?

Also, I understood Tad to say that his xw didnt want to be replaced as a MOM. I took this to mean she didnt want her boys to call anyone else MOM....not that she didnt want Tad to be with anyone else.
I said the same thing....I was so worried my son, while living with dad and stepmom, would call HER MOM.
I could be misunderstanding though, but I if this is the case I can kinda understand her worries of that.
I mean she walked out on Tad and her kids, BUT didnt they have a choice of going with her. I mean they are older, its not like they are young boys, except for the 16 yr. old.
DOnt get me wrong. I totally disagree with how she did it and I am so sorry this happened to Tad. She is a CASE that is for sure.

25 my xh STILL, after three years hates the sound of my voice. So the anger can last, dont know why, but it does.
I am truly believe he is in MLC.
Married a 26 yr. old and had a newborn!
The man is in his 40's.

Tad the best thing you can do is COMPLETELY DETACH!
It will help you move on, if you NEVER talk or see her for as long as you can go. It will be like she died, but this is the only way you are going to heal faster and in return she MAY stop being so vindictive and see you for what you are now.
By seeing her even once a couple weeks, she is NOT going to except that youve changed.
The BIG plus to this Tad is its best for your boys.
I know you have a son underage, but is there anyway one of your other sons can pick him up when needed, so you can avoid her for awhile?
Tad I know each time she is NICE to you, it gives you hope.
Its not working! This is just a mood change.
Please understand it will be a while before she actually gets her mind back.
This is your only hope Tad for getting back together in the future. You have got to go on and get her completely out of your life for now.
Pretend it is over for good....just pretend.
Believe me the longer you are away and dont here from her the easier it will get.
Tad I hate to tell you this, and I know everybody is different, but it has been 3 years and no talking to my xh at all, well except the couple times i tried to call about my son and he hung up on me, and I STILL have times that I miss him.
It will take A LONG WHILE, be Patient with yourself and dont stop Praying, even though things ease up.
Get her out of the picture Tad. Do it for you and your Boys!
It will be hard....believe me I know. BUt you dont have a choice, unless you enjoy punishment and seeing your kids suffer from this....and THAT I KNOW you dont....so DETACH COMPLETELY!

Hugs,
Renee

[beatrice]

I think it is a grey area where what we call MLC shades into something which is a really unbalanced pattern of behaviour. Most MLCers here do and say some pretty awful things, and some of it goes on for a long time.

My xh was generally unremittingly hostile to me for the best part of 5 years, with occasional forays into normal. They can stay angry for a long time.

What I think we have to do is back off from the weirdness, and not feed it. This is one of the many reasons why we need to detach.

There are 'mild' MLC and more severe ones, it would appear from the variety of experience reported here. Some spouses are able to go on talking to each other throughout, which I used to find astonishing!!

Tad, if your xw is really unbalanced she will need to get help at some point. If it is extreme MLC, and thus mainly directed at you and her immediate family, or part of it, it may eventually blow itself out. I have no claims to be a professional therapist, merely an observer, but it seems to me that you are inadvertently feeding her anger.

if you could stop all contact, and take no notice it may blow itself out more quickly, or turn on someone else who may be in a position to advise her to get help.

You could, by your availability, be making the situation even worse. We want to be there for someone we love who is sick, but MLCers often tend to see us as the problem.

You come across as a co-dependent couple pre MLC, whether or not you realised this. Your xw may be trying to break free from this, in an immature and destructive way. It can be helpful to see the MLCer as fighting for their life, when they feel they are drowning by staying in their old life. We can only respect that decision and give them the space they need.

Also we have the right to our boundaries, and to be treated with respect.

While divorce is arguably 'only a piece of paper', at the same time it dissolves any legal rights your wife has to say and do what she pleases to you. In many places there are actually laws in place to protect former spouses from on-going harassment . . . . I do not say this to encourage you to be litigious, but to remind you that you do not have to tolerate her behaviour. Legally she is nothing to you, and has no rights, apart from what the divorce settlement gave her, and I doubt it was the right to be abusive.

[AntoniaB]

It's not that she isn't MLC, she is, but she's something beyond MLC or just the most insane level of MLC most have ever seen.

This stuff about her coming and trying to take things...my XH didn't actually DO this but he said he wanted to. AFTER the divorce he said that he suddenly had room for things and wanted to take what was "his", that he didn't have room before. It wasn't a lot of stuff he wanted--mainly some record albums, cds, tools from the shed. But I also didn't know if it would turn into "more" the more I let him come around the house, and both of us had signed settlement papers that were final, giving me everything in exchange for a cash buyout. He even signed a paper saying that with the check I wrote him, which was 75k, that he was "fully compensated" for everything due to him. It was like he forgot he signed the papers and such. What he wanted, he wanted.

I told him in an email no. I said the settlement was over, that he made his choices, and that he was not welcome to come to the house to pick anything up. Then I changed the locks.

If he had come and tried to get in, I was ready to get a restraining order. This was an issue of boundaries. His behavior was volatile and mean enough at the time that it was a huge setback for me to see him in person and he had no legal right to anything he was asking.

At someo point I had a washing machine break and he offered to buy me the machine if I let him get that same stuff back. I said no. I felt that these were power games brought on by his suddenly finally getting his new place and seeing he had virtually nothing.

Well he never tried to break in or anything.

Flash forward to this week, and now that we are cordial again, we are talking about which cds the other wants and negotiating what to mail to each other.

He isn't due these things but I no longer want them, and now I can interact with him without losing it. He doesn't any longer want a lot of what he said he wanted before--but he does want his father's record albums, which I said he can have, but he has to come here to get them and he's afraid to see me as it opens his attachment. So I keep them for now...maybe forever.

I'm telling you all this for one reason: you need to stop her behavior. You cannot let her start fooling with what's on your property or there will be no end. This is simply another way she is effing with you. You may have to tell her that you will call the police if she tries to take anything on your property or that you will file a restraining order. Yes she will lose it when you say that, but so what? She's already lost it a hundred times over when you're nice. She has no legal right to take things if you "won" them in the settlement. If the house is not in her name, she has no right to enter or come on the property.

Being nice or cordial or playing her tune will NOT bring her back, and why you would want her back like this is beyond me. She is not who she was. You have to block her access to you. We've all been saying it for months and there is little change.

You have grown yourself, yes, but you are not trying to shut her down or block the interactions, and until you do, this stuff is going to keep happening.

[angel61]

Tad, that is why there is the term NC in this world we all are in. and NC really is not to punish the MLC'er, its for us, the LBS, to stop, breathe, gather our wits, and heal.

In your case, your W seems to be an extreme case. But your reacting to her makes it worse. You have so many buttons to push tad that she goes crazy trying to push them all - like a gleeful child with so many quarters at a candy vending machine.

If you can detach, go NC, work on those buttons.

Maybe you cn only keep the "delete" one

[AJM]

Hi Tad. I read that post and can see a lot of the same behaviors my ex had. Except the one without the OM (if indeed that's the case).

I can say that it's hard Tad. I can say that it's worth detaching. Very much so.

I was in California this past week. I was cleaning out my grandparents house and visiting with them. Lots of old memories. Funny though. The part for me that was cathartic was hanging out in an old folks home. Reminds me how short life is and how people can be. I met many and each is behaving as they would without filters. Some are nice and some are not. They are all big children.

I came home and cleaned out my storage bins. I meant to a while back, but somehow never got to it. I threw much of it away, but as I was going through it, it dawned on me, that my xw didn't leave me - she ran away from me and everything she ever knew. Kids, her childhood, etc. I feel for her in that regard, since I don't have that problem. I have happy memories of my childhood and even times with her.

Your ex is not that much different than the behaviors of mine, Tad. Similar tracks it seems.

She sometims sends postcards from the other side, so to speak. But that's not for you. That's for her. That's indicative of her conflict and you cannot know what or why. It's just not how things are going to be.

For you?

I highly suggest you continue to set and enforce boundaries that are going to make you healthy. She'll test them along the way, so you'll know when you have it set properly.

She is not somebody you know Tad. Really. This is a carbon copy of your ex.

The cycling is not unexpected. Normal and it's part of the process. The process works better if you keep her at bay and don't let her push buttons along the way. She'll extend your healing and keep you from what's next if you let her. Misery loves company or something like that.

Lead the way Tad. Kindly and compassionately lead the way. Set and enforce the boundaries and distance and let her know that she divorced you and you are going to do what is right for you and the boys. Regardless of her, since that is how she wanted it.

Don't ever wish any bad things on her Tad. She has enough and cannot get away from them. She can bury things, but 25 is right - she hasn't started (and may never) addressing her own issues.

She will continue to be mean to you as long as you let her and a little past that. You have that control and nobody else will give it to you nor take it away.

Think about that last a little. It's true and you know it. Embrace it rather than disbelieve it.

She may be crazy and mean, but you don't deserve what she is doing. Put a stop to it over time. Your boys need to see how to deal with it because they need to do the same for as long as she remains crazy and mean spirited. It's a healthy thing for them to learn.


AJ

[25yearsmlc]

sunshine/renee,

Tad's EX w is definitely having a crisis. But it's no "mid life" crisis as if exteranl circumstances and some internal clock brought ALL THIS crap out...

I think she's unstable and wacky. That's my "medical" opinion, so it's good I'm not a doctor.

She's more extreme than ANY other wife I can recall, and I've been here awhile.


That's all I'm saying. I won't let "MLC" be attached to someone who is that mean for that long AND that crazy...and fwiw

most MLC women don't leave their kids.

They want the h's to leave and "be erased" from the rest of their worlds, as if the h's were never there or a new OM can replace them.

Tad's ex w is also unusual in that respect. She left it all and in a huff,

and did not present the sons with a choice a rational son could choose. IT was an offer NOT built to accept...and then changed and morphed, if I recall it right. (Maybe I am off there but that's how I saw it I think)

And her particular complaints are weirder and more off the wall than most. And she got her divorce!! Enough already. What is there to debate NOW??

Her telling her ex h what she wants her sons (some of whom are adults if I'm not mistaken) what to call any woman he dates or brings into their lives, isn't for her to tell TAD

they will call his OW what they feel like calling her, (if he ever brings one home)

It's not HER place to say anyting about their R's with the women in Tad's life from now on.

She lost that right and, given that SHE has had an OM for some time now, in his face,

it's way out of line.

The hypocrisy is just insane. And she continues to see none of it and they seem to fear her so much, it goes on.

So I stand by my comment that she's far beyond the pale of a mere MLC, as wacky as all that can be.


The important point here Tad, is that no matter what "diagnosis" she gets--YOUR TREATMENT is the same

your CURE is the same...

you have to detach or you will remain stuck in stuckville, population: you.

Come on, you deserve better and you know better. So do your sons!

God I hope they learn what NOT to do from the past with you two, and so now teach them what

TO DO!

Tad, like I said, you seem more comfortable with the hell you know (and are in) than the

fear of what might be if you simply let go.

That's a really tragic choice to keep making. I wish you could see that.

[kara]

Tad,

Mine is just one of the other countless voices telling you to practice detachment. You have been given two wonderful gifts - you don't have young children to co-parent and you don't share the same home. Detachment and limited contact will still be difficult at first but the fact that you have these two gifts should help to make it easier. (I say limited contact because of S16.)

AJ's post is right on the money. Teach her how to treat you and do it with compassion and appropriate boundaries. She is finding out that reality bites when you do not address deep-seated issues. She will discover that you can get divorced, move to another planet, makeover yourself, buy a thousand new toys but if the internal issues are not addressed your reality will always bite. There will be discontentment and anger. You can only work on your issues and leave her to work or not work on hers.

[Kimmerz]

Hey Tad,
How's it going? Excuse me for not having a full grasp of your entire sitch for I may be missing a few things.

Have you read up on Emotional/Mental abuse, and Borderline personality diorders?

I say this because I do agree this is beyond MLC, and what it's done to you mentally and emotionally, and continues to is the most horrific cycle imaginable.

If you read up on this, yes it gives you more of a grasp of what's going on with her... BUT even more so, you're reactions, emotions, and the hold that her behavior has on you.

I realize with kids in the mix it's pretty impossible to keep NC.However by getting a true grip on NC ( as much as possible that is) will you truly get the chance for the fog and confusion you're under to finally clear, and get a new perspective of the situation. And it takes time, kind like an iceburg melting.

Take Care!

[tadpole1025]

Thanks so much everyone. You all make it sound so easier than it is. I KNOW that if I could just stop the contact and detach, I could get so much better. So hard to do, but I am getting there ever so slowly.

I had a really bad day today. I cleaned out my garage and put more things in the yard for a yard sale. XW found out some more stuff that I was getting rid of because her sister lives three houses away. She is furious with me.

I agree with 25. My XW is beyond MLC. She is just gone. Have any of you noticed how your MLC spouse seems to contradict themselves all of the time or talk in circles? My XW does it constantly. She doesn't even realize it either.

Some of the highlights from her texts today:

She says it is ok that she has a pic of OM on her FB page because we are divorced now. (This started with OM before I knew there was even a problem.)

She says that I like to lie and play head games.

I like dark women. She accused me of thinking that she isn't ethnic enough for her. (Hello? She's got dark skin, black hair and big beautiful dark eyes.)

Told me to go "pop some more uppers." (I'm on anti-depressants.)

Accused me again of just throwing her life away and memories away.

Says that she wants more things from the house. I told her that she isn't entitled to anything else except for 6 more boxes in the garage that was agreed to in the divorce. She is coming to get them on Wednesday.

Accused me of involving the kids in this mess, but then I found out that she was reading her texts to S16. WTF?

Says that I let her know every single day how much I didn't want her.

The things that hurt the most though:

Says I never liked her.

Says I never wanted her.

Say I never LOVED her.

Do I need a 2X4? Nope. More like a 4X4.

Will she ever realize that I am not this terrible person? I just don't get it. I'm terrible, but yet she still wants to be friends.

She was mean and nasty again I let myself get sucked in AGAIN and have nobody to blame but myself.

Tad

[AntoniaB]

It's much more simple than you realize. You are making excuses constantly about how you "can't" detach. No...You "won't" detach. That's the problem. It shocks me that this is going on for so long post-divorce, but then again, you're still not attempting NC.

It's very simple to do a few things:

1. Put her on your BLOCK list on FB. I realize you aren't FB friends. But if you're not blocking her, she can see some of your page and you can see some of hers, including OM. If you can't handle that it's there, then block her. Tell your sons that you don't want to know ANYTHING about what she is or isn't doing on FB. Tell your friends. I get this impression that whatever you don't know, people are lining up to tell you or worse yet, you're asking them what she's doing. Not healthy for you at all.

2. BLOCK HER TEXTS. You can contact your phone provider and do this. I did it on the internet, just typed in my XH's phone number. Done. He couldn't say a word to me.

3. BLOCK HER ON A LANDLINE if you have one. Same process. You either do this online or you call the phone company. "I do not want to receive calls from this number." No explanation is necessary. This is your right.

4. BLOCK HER EMAIL ADDRESS. Likely you can enter her address online on a block list. Mission accomplished.

You have to cut off her means of attack. You haven't even TRIED to stop her.

If you do all this, it leaves her the postal service, and frankly you can write "return to sender" on anything from her and not open it, or her showing up in person, and if she does that, you can not answer the door, call the police, whatever.

There is nothing more any of us can do to help you. We've told you a hundred times to try NC and you refuse. You're making your own nightmare at this point. If you don't do the above, it can only mean you like being treated this way and don't want it to stop because you're getting something out of it.