PLEASE!!! Need help quick! Calling all vets!

[AntoniaB]

Wow, AJM, that was just...beautiful. What a beautifully written explanation for the whole process, for the death of what "was" and the realization of what "is." I love your iceberg analogy, and the ashes, and all of it. Your insights are spot-on but the way you've expressed yourself is really memorable. Wow.

I will add something that helped me--although I can't claim to have written this. This is a quote from a short story, a new version of Hansel and Gretel that has very little in common with the fairy tale we all know. It's by Francine Prose.

And if you're a guy reading this, just imagine that the unhappy girl is a boy:

"I wondered how often the future waits on the other side of the wall, knocking very quietly, too politely for us to hear, and I was filled with longing to reach back into my life and inform that unhappy girl: all around her was physical evidence proving her sorrows would end. I wanted to tell her that she would be saved, but not by an act of will: clever Gretel pretending she couldn't tell if the oven was hot and tricking the witch into showing her and shoving the witch into the oven. What would rescue her was time itself and, above all, its inexorability, the utter impossibility of anything ever staying the same."

What I can tell you Tad is that I'm at 15 months post-bomb and counting, and while I am sad at the loss of my XH, and some days I'm "down", I love my life. I love my friends. Most of the time I love my family (dad and mom can be a bit tough here and there...). I love my job. I love my writing. I love my resiliency and my rebuilt self-esteem. And I love that there are so many possibilities for me in my future. I have never been as strong in my life as I am right now, and I'm getting stronger by the month. And that took letting go of the notion that I needed XH to have all of this. I have it without him. You can too.

It took a serious effort of willpower to get to this point. You gotta summon the strength to get it and stick to it.

[tadpole1025]

Thanks. Today was a little better, but still down. Still [censored] knowing that W believes that she has been miserable for 15 years. I know better.

I feel like she not only "doesn't love me", but totally turned on me. She is a pit bull towards me.

Nothing new to report except for the fact that she deleted me as a friend on FB today. Of course, this comes just two weeks after she tells me that she would like to be really good friends.

WTF?

hmm, so you "lied" by not reminding her to fill out her legal paperwork?

What did her L tell her??? Could she maybe not have a L now?

Neither one of us have lawyers. She told me months ago that she spent 4 grand on a lawyer and getting the divorce filed. Then when she actually DID file, I find out that she only paid 4 hundred and did it herself online. My how they lie....

Read up on Detachment here. ASAP!

That is my weekend assignment!

Tad, you arent really doing something different.

You are still getting pulled in.
You are still hanging on every word.
You are still apologizing to her.
You are still telling her you want to talk, work it out, delay it.
You are still letting her craziness get to you.
You are still not detached.
You are still not moving forward.
You are still stuck.
You are still trying to figure her out.

You are still......

Get what I mean?

Haha. Thanks Brooklyn. I do see what you mean.

I'm telling you this exchange because I think it was AS HONEST as an MLCer in the midst of it can be. NO. It doesn't make a lot of sense. It basically means that the MLCer admits he/she isn't happy and is "drowning" and doesn't know why, assumes that the marriage, the "biggest thing" in their lives, is the problem, and figures "let me get out of the marriage and it will all be fine."

Not everyone is the same, but my XH is an MLCer who ADMITTED to me---without my even asking--but just brought this up in a moment of clarity/guilt/sadness the reason behind his craziness.

Try to take something from this. It is highly possible, in fact probable, that your wife is doing the same thing to you.

Antonia, my W actually told me that she felt like "just running. I just couldn't get out of here and run fast enough." MLC is some crazy stuff isn't it?

Sometimes, I'd argue in fits of lucidity on your part, you don't want her back. And you sometimes forget that she is not the woman you loved nor a person that can be loved right now.

Thanks AJ. I do miss the woman that I was married to. And you're right. That is who I want back.....not the creature that she has become. Yes, I do mean creature.

Tad.

[angel61]

Tad, of all the posters in MLC, you come across as the most desperate, the most needy, the most dependent. If I, who only reads the words you have written, not seeing your face, feels that coming through your posts, what more of your W? No wonder she wants to run far, far away. I'm sorry Tad, but that is my honest to goodness impression. And of course, since I am in the same boat as you, my heart goes out to you, but again, I wish that you could REALLY, REALLY understand what everyone is telling you so you could feel better.

Its not about her, Tad. Stop focusing on her. You say so in your post, but again, your first sentence is about HER!

Maybe we should try a different tactic. Next time you post, tell us about yourself. Maybe we can start talking about your anger, your resentment, and how you handle it. How you can remove it. How you view it. How it affects your life. Then think of a plan on how you can take that anger away.

I have read so much about this, and in almost all of them, the same principles apply: Do not talk, persuade, make them se reason or logic, ask for help..... because it WILL NOT WORK! The more you pressure them, guilt them, make them see how pathetic you are, how needy, how you depend on them for happiness.....

the faster they will run away from the weight of the responsibility.

All MLC'ers want to run away.When my H started, he told me that the only thing he wanted to do was to pack up his clothes and go far away. I couldn't understand it then, but I did just shut up because I felt his desperation and instinctively knew that the more I bring it up the more he would feel like fleeing. He asked me for some space, I tried my best to give it to him, and although it wasn't full, I guess it was enough to keep him home.

Tad, let her go. try this Tad - next time she talks to you agree with everything, don't even try to argue. Tell her you have thought about it and you see the light. You want to be friends? Don't delay the D, give it to her.

She lies? Just pretend you believe her. Don't show you doubt her.

Try it, tad, even for a week. YOu are looking for different ways to approach this. I think at this point you have nothing to lose.

[AJM]

Tad, I see what Angel is saying. I don't agree with all of it. I do agree that an MLCr wants to run away. Desparately. I think it is confusing to them. If you have been close, it will be confusing to you as well and you'll feel it. All of it. The anger, the manic, the depression, etc.

What you're doing here is detaching. Untangling. It won't happen overnight, but you do need to take the steps.

I do agree that you don't argue. But I do not agree that you agree with everything. That's not focusing on you. Not arguing is there because you can't argue with the "logic" she has. It's her reality or at least she tries to make it so. There are times when things are distorted and I see no reason to lie about it with them. To be complicit in the lies is not being true to you. Not arguing is not the same as agreeing. Validating that she feels that way and that you understand she feels that way (at the moment) is a good approach IMHO.

Agreeing with them is not the right answer in my opinion.

You do have nothing to lose by changing things in your own life. But change them so they are about you. What you want. Explore those things Tad.

She'll do what she wants regardless and you know that by now.

FWIW, mine has said the exact same words. She wants to be friends and then takes steps to push me away. It happened so much I got confused for a long time until I realized she wanted to push me away while holding on. I eventually saw the pattern and refused to be part of it any longer for ME. I saw how she used me to fuel her anger and changed that to not allow myself to be part of that.

Lies? Or lack of tools to express herself? Or ?

Doesn't matter because it isn't treating you with respect nor as a person with their own feelings. Demand and get the respect you deserve. At any cost Tad.

Look at the reality of the situation. You cannot fix her. She left. She is trying to run far away. You don't know why. But she has left. She treats you poorly. She "lies" and you allow her to make you suffer.

Know when to fold 'em Tad. The battle is not the same as the war...

AJ

[Drew]

My opinion:

In Tad's jumbled, emotional state of mind, this:

Tad, let her go. try this Tad - next time she talks to you agree with everything, don't even try to argue. Tell her you have thought about it and you see the light. You want to be friends? Don't delay the D, give it to her.

She lies? Just pretend you believe her. Don't show you doubt her.

Try it, tad, even for a week. YOu are looking for different ways to approach this. I think at this point you have nothing to lose.

is easier and more effective for him to do, then:

I do agree that you don't argue. But I do not agree that you agree with everything. That's not focusing on you. Not arguing is there because you can't argue with the "logic" she has. It's her reality or at least she tries to make it so. There are times when things are distorted and I see no reason to lie about it with them. To be complicit in the lies is not being true to you. Not arguing is not the same as agreeing. Validating that she feels that way and that you understand she feels that way (at the moment) is a good approach IMHO.

Tad is still thrown for a loop everytime he interacts with her, so a simple "agree with everything she says" repeated over and over in his head will probably help him detach quicker than him trying to ananlyze what his needs areon the fly . Down the road yes, but now ......

There's actually another website that my C recommended where this is the central strategy in "Stopping Your Divorce". Another take on dropping the rope.

You might be surprised what happens when you give them what they want.

[angel61]

Drew got it! It doesn't have to be forever, because there will come a time when they (the MLC'er) will start going back to their senses. And thats the times to start interacting.

I am just trying to help Tad avoid what I have been through before, which is what he is doing, and more.

My H's cousin was sharing with me how her own H had an MLC with an affair. IN her own words "I let him have everything he wanted, the OW, fredom, etc. until he choked on it!" She did work on herself though, and true enough, after several months, H came back and now, a few years later, their M is stronger than ever!

The key word I think is not necessarily to agree with everything but NOT to argue. So if the MLCer says anything you don't agree with, just say something like "I see your point" or maybe just even nod and don't add to it.

If she wants D, let her have everything she needs.

When my H used to threaten me with D, a couple of times I actually stood up, told him that we should get dressed so we could go out and find a lawyer there and then, and then he stalled.

[Mach1]

Me thinks, Tad thinks too much ......

[PEI]

he's like Winnie the Pooh ...

think, think, think ....

[25yearsmlc]

sidenote story--but relevant I think.

My h has a bf from childhood who is a Vietnam vet. He's older than my h by maybe 6-7 years and just as h was in high school, this big brother figure got sent to Vietnam....FYI--h's father, (my fil) was also sent to Vietnam, for his 3rd combat tour. FIL had been an enlisted marine, and then became an officer, and as a LT, he lost more than half his squad..

Big bro had combat too, but he changed his whole personality in that one tour.
Both men returned. Unlike my fil, whom I"ve known over
In 30 years of m and has told maybe 3 war stories.

h's "big bro" talked to us about the war, every single time he called.

That was fine b/c h and I are both veterans and don't mind listening. The point was

Big bro changed from the helpful big bro figure of my h's youth, into an angry bitter drunk. He envied h to an ugly degree. He made passes at me when my h wasn't around (often) and he was vulgar and pushy about it too.

The "big bro" guy had become resentful of my h for not serving (h was only 15) he resented h for going to and finishing college, then med school. Big bro resented that h and I were married and had w3 kids.

Big bro was SO bitter that no woman would ever be trusted by him, so he never had a lasting relationship with one. I KNOW he was lonely but he was simply too damaged to be healthy enough for ANY r to last....

I guess you could say he had an excuse but so what? What woman wants to fall on her sword for "the cause"....??

But h worshipped big bro!!

Bottom line was, that no matter what the "big bro" character did, my h was still loyal to him. If they had once dated, I'd call it "still in love with" big bro.

Even when his friend seemed to be veering "off" and his stories got too weird and contradictory to understand let alone believe...h held on that HIS BUDDY was still in there and would return if he got some rest or just had friends around...

I hinted that his friend wasn't the most loyal of friends (the sexual remarks towards me were out of my league in terms of crazyiness and pushiness) but that so hurt and upset my h that I could not bear to tell him that his big brother figure was an real POS....constantly harassing me when h was not around, putting my h down too! H was his best friend if not his ONLY friend!!

I told my sister and she said "Big bro is sick. And YOU are sick to keep engaging him at all..." So I stopped altogether. I "surrendered" the friend to h and hoped they could somehow help big bro or that h could let go of his old long gone friend.

To this day h admires the hero his friend ONCE WAS....but that hero of his, took his own life about 2 years ago.

And h thinks maybe it "wasn't really suicide".....(it was...OMG....)

My point Tad....is that all my h can see is what his friend once meant to H.

Even if the viewpoint of the past is accurate, people Do change.

And that's assuming that my h didn't miss a few flaws in the first place.

But literally, my h's big bro friend is now GONE....and there are nights h still won't accept that.


Tad, whoever your w used to be, she's gone now.

We don't know if she'll come back but it is physically possible at least.

But I put up with a lot of bad behaviors from someone pretending to be my h's friend...out of my misplaced belief it was best for h (I still don't know if what I did was right but it felt more loving than telling the whole truth to h....)

And h's trust and belief in his friend was certainly misplaced....

H wasted time trying to overlook and help that disloyal and bitter man his friend had become...a man so torn inside he even mistreated his only true friend, my h.

And my h's attempts to help, didn't even help in the end.

Let your wife go and stop spending ANY energy on what she's thinking or doing now. Do it for 90 day increments til it either changes, or it gets easier.

That is all the advice I have for you Tad, b/c you have heard all this before many many times.

it's not that You don't KNOW what to do...you KNOW. Now you have to DO it.

((( )))

[goodattitudegirl]

Tad,

25 is a very wise woman and has much experience with MLC and mental health issues. It may be overwhelming for you to think about changing your mindset totally, but can you think about making your changes one day at a time, like someone recovering from substance abuse? We ARE recovering, so this approach makes sense.

25,

Your posts always speak to me but the one above ESPECIALLY spoke to me. My XH has a BMF who really interfered in our R as well. I have been very puzzled how the wonderful H I knew then could be so deceived and so loyal to his "sick" BMF. How did you reconcile that aspect of your H's behavior with the H that you know and love? When H left for the tundra, leaving you and his family behind, I would imagine he kept strong ties with BF. How did you reconcile that?

Sorry for the hijack (my question to 25) Tad...........Keep moving forward, Tad.

GAG