OT - when trust has been betrayed, not once, but over a 6+ year period, in terms of infidelity, stealing of joint assets, emotional abuse, neglect of children, even if it is done by a person in crisis, at last some of those issues need explicitly addressing before a close relationship can be resumed.
I have learned this to my cost - I took my husband back several times, loved him, and wanted to move on. BUT he had not looked within himself. Until the MLCer does that, a real relationship is not possible, I have come to believe.
I am not bitter - I love my xh and wish him well. I have helped him gladly, on many occasions, and not kept any score.
I agree that trust is a team project, with both partners playing. If one drops out, they do have to get back into the game. But perhaps we will never agree, and it is Valeria's thread, not mine!
OT, I'm confused by your statement that trust is a team project. My XH has never had reason to mistrust me and will tell you today that I'm the only person in the world that he can trust completely. XH, on the other hand, has betrayed my trust time and time again. Which brings me back to my original statement that XH will have to earn my trust and it will take time .. and it will be on MY time clock.
And if he can do this, then I can - and will - commit to XH.
In any event, I respect your viewpoint but I request that you respect mine as well.
Unless we take emotional risks, there is no chance for trust. For someone to earn our trust, we have to trust them with something. That is why it is impossible for trust to be a one-sided exercise.
Of course XH will need to earn your trust, again, just like any new prospective romantic partner. And, of course you should take your time.
All I'm doing is to try to shift your perspective from what is "his work" alone, to also consider what falls into "our work" and "my work."
My caution is undoubtedly sabotaging any chance of real reconciliation that H and I might have, but the burning desire to get back together is no longer within me. If it happens, that's wonderful. If not, I can survive okay on my own.
No, I don't think that's possible. In fact, in my mind I would think the opposite. I am not talking from experience, but rather from watching others such as my exbil. He destroyed much. He knew it and he was willing to take the time, as much time as it took, to deal with that and make it as right as he could. That relationship was/is with his father and not a spouse. But the behavior is similar.
I think that taking the time and not just "jumping in" serves several purposes. Not the least of which is that it communicates that you are somebody worth pursuing. It also allows for strengthening of the relationship and resolve.
I see no reason to do more than be open to the idea. I agree with OT that you should not, and would not want to, assume it is something that XH needs to "prove" he has done the work. He needs to prove he can be trusted. That's the same as it would be with anyone coming into your life.
You need to prove you can be open to that concept. With him or anyone else and not just remain comfortable with the status quo.
My $.04 anyway.
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
What I meant by sabotaging the relationship is that XH has no patience to wait on anything. He was always that way -- impulsive and wanting things to happen immediately.
By me not jumping back into a relationship with XH (like he wants) will probably drive him away. If that happens, it's okay because he needs to do a little more soul searching before he's ready to do the real work.
I agree with you Valeria - while we need to accept people for the way they are, the same applies to them. I need to be wooed and won by any prospective partner - not in a Hollywood way, but by acts of kindness and understanding.
The OW are so easy to 'win' and so hard to live with. I like to think I am the opposite.
And frankly anyone who cannot see that they might have done a fair bit of damage really hasn't 'got it' This is not the same as 'punishing' them. There is a wonderful line in the parable of the Prodigal Son, often overlooked 'When he came to his senses' he started the journey home. He repented, and 'his father saw him coming a long way off and ran to meet him' These are the two crucial elements. We have to meet them, I agree, but they also need to show they are sorry. There is much to be sorry about. It is pointless to gloss over that.
Valeria, I get it. And I totally agree with what was said. I'm asking the questions however.
One that jumps up is the striking similarity to your xh and my xw. Impatience. Wanting things right now. Inability to delay gratification.
I think you are right that you are not willing "at any cost" to jump into a relationship with xh. I think you are very much grounded in that approach. I also think that for ANY relationship to work, B makes a good point that he has to work at it - the same as any.
Watching and waiting (to some degree) is the best approach.
I think that to expect him to "get it" all at once or to show he gets it would take time. Both would. Until that point, having a relationship really isn't possible IMHO.
I think that's a common theme.
I think Yellowbrick road has it right as well. Don't waste any more time worrying about it. You'll look back and be sorry for that wasted time at some point. That's part of the journey as well.
There was a lot of damage caused. There was. No getting around it. But one way or another we as the LBS have to let that go at some point. We don't have to let them continue that behavior and we don't have to be waiting around while they "figure it out" or otherwise change their minds. They may not and may just be acting out of habit in some ways.
To me the best approach is to let it all go and live. Live in a way I can like me and in a way that is good for me. Live in a way that when I do look back, I like me and have no regrets.
To date, I have very few and none of them around my xw. Most of my regrets have to do with how I perceive things and how slow I can be to see things for how they really are. I interpret events based on my filters and not always how things really are.
Not sorry, just that I see room for improvement.
Hang in there and live your life. If he wants to pursue, you'll know and you can deal with it then, right?
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
I understand why people post that they are 'sorry' for the wasted time. But to me that is another filter, another form of pointless regret. Grief and loss take time to heal from. We would be less, as people, if after a few months we said, 'Well that is over, on with life'.
YBR's h came back and I have noticed that those who reconciled are more likely, on these boards, to tell us not to 'waste' time on regrets. But that to me is another filter too. I wish I hadn't taken so long to recover, but it took a long time to come to terms with what happened. I worked on feeling better, and eventually I did. But I loved very deeply and for a long time, and that takes time to deal with.
Interestingly studies have shown that widows [after long and happy marriages] usually grieve longer than men.
I am not glamorizing grieving, just recognising it as a necessary process on the road to moving forward, and one that helps us to explore our inner selves. I suspect that not grieving the loss fully [and that is why I raised the issue of those who have reconciled after a couple of years - it is different for them in that ultimately the marriage was restored] will lead to problems further along. It is OK to be sad, and to grow through that. Clearly it is not a place to be stuck in. It wasn't until I faced the depths of my grief that I could really more forward into the place where I am now.
Valeria, like me, has been on her own a long time, and come fully to terms with the loss. Getting back together now would be harder, not simply because of the passage of time, but because we have fully accepted our loss. After a couple of years you haven't, even if you think you have. At least that is my 2 c. I am not denigrating being happy, getting a life, and helping yourself. All wonderful, all necessary, all good. But working through it all takes time, for most of us.
When XH left unexpectedly in August 2005, I was blind-sided. It was a sucker punch that devastated me and took a long, long time to recover. I went through a painful grieving period (like most people on this board) and thought that death was preferable to living. Gradually I recovered and was able to move forward.
OTOH, XH went directly from our M to a crazy affair with OW which lasted 6 years. I think he had moments of grieving for the loss of home and family but the OW was always there to divert his grief. .
Now, 6+ years later, OW is gone and he is alone. He is going through the stages of grieving that I went through in 2005-06. He also has the added burden of looking himself in the mirror each day and realizing the devastation he caused to his family
(Although he denies it, and claims that he is relieved that the A is over, he is probably grieving the end of that R as well)
XH is carrying around a load of guilt. I think if he cannot come home NOW and pretend that the past several years never happened, he will move on to find someone else to distract him from the pain and loss.
I hope I'm wrong. I hope he can go through the period of mourning and soul-searching that will make him a better man. But comments he has made to me on the phone (like.. he doesn't understand why our son doesn't call him), lets me know that he doesn't get it yet. It's up to H to call our son (not the other way around) and express a sincere apology and remorse for the pain he has caused.
I went through the long period of soul-searching and became a better person. Now it's H's turn. I hope he can do it.
