Just realized I need a new thread... Reposting update.
UPDATE...
W texted me at around 5:30 p.m.
W: "My water was shut off today. Old tenants left balance of $600. May be off for 24+ hours. Thought you'd get a good laugh about the b.s. at my place!"
I waited 30 minutes and then replied.
Me: "Ugh! That s@cks. I'm sure that things will settle down once the kinks get worked out."
W (immediate reply): "I hope! So annoying!"
I did not reply to her last text.
BITS Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
You are getting some good 2x4s but man.. my heart goes out for you. It's clear that having contacting with your w has you on a crazy emotional rollercoaster. It's also clear that fear is paralyzing you a little bit. You just sound slightly stuck.. so ((Denver))
This sticks out to me:
Again, afraid that she will perceive that as me reverting to old behaviors.
I really think you need to dig deep in yourself about this. I struggle with my fear daily.
A couple of things that I have realized:
1) I take the time to really think about every action. Am I being the "old val" by doing xyz. Take your w out of the equation. Her reactions, her perceptions. Give yourself tunnel vision and only look at YOU. Be honest with yourself whilst in tunnel vision.
2) If your decision is being new Denver and she still perceives as the old Denver.. that's tough. IMO there comes a point where we just have to accept the consequences.. and that includes the ones caused by our new selves. We can't be expected to pay for our past forever. At some point our s needs to trust us. If your w can't.. is it because you have not showed her enough new Denver or because she can't let go of the old Denver? Either way, is there anything you can do to help her through this? Or is this something she has to work through alone?
3) This may not apply to your sitch... but are you afraid because deep down you already know how your wife will perceive your actions??
Any time I stick up for myself, my w calls me angry and then gets super cold w/ me. I know that 99% of the time, she will say and do just that. Now I can speculate that it is fear on her end, or blameshifting, or how my w handles me sticking up for myself. Whatever it is.. the point is that because I know beforehand how she will perceive me I am afraid to do anything.. even if I know I'm not being the "old" val.
So why is Denver so afraid? Don't you see that fear holds us back?
Your w is still confused and it sure sounds like her actions are confusing the he!! out of you. During this confusion, are you still be the best Denver or is the old Denver coming out in this "fog"?
Take the space!! Work on yourself. Confront your fears. I think it will help.. no matter the consequences.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
2) If your decision is being new Denver and she still perceives as the old Denver.. that's tough. IMO there comes a point where we just have to accept the consequences.. and that includes the ones caused by our new selves. We can't be expected to pay for our past forever.
I think we are all on the same page with what WE see with Denver.
People 'hear' things the way they hear things, in the time frame they hear them....
We all just have varying differences in how we explain it. And with all the traffic on his threads, combined with Denver being a people pleaser, he tries to apply everything, everyone posts to him. Hoping that one will be that magic bullet that "fixes" his marriage. I don't blame Denver for that, or anyone here. It is just the way it is.
I cannot speak for MHL, Starsky, or anyone else trying to say the same things ( from the way I interpret things).
But for me, the contact that Denver does have , sends him spinning toward his wife, and pulls him into that tornado. It is always calmer in the eye of the storm , and that is the place that we ALL want to see Denver. In that spot where he can see everything clearly without getting any collateral damage because of it.
Time and time again, he has shown that the contact affects him greatly.
It is like a stare-down of two playground bullies , and one jumps when the other one blinks.
The only way to change that dynamic is to change the events that lead to that dynamic. And the major event that causes that....is contact with her.
Denver has fears that are causing him to seek that contact, and until he addresses those fears ( and not just the fear, but the root of those fears ) , he will always allow himself to be defined by the outcome of his marriage.
There is also a misnomer that things have to be one way or another for him right now. It is not that he either has to be married or he has to be divorced. She asked him for space and time to figure things out. That does NOT mean that procedings have to be started.
This should be Denver's time to figure things out as well, and the contact does not allow him to do that with a clear head.
I would imagine that Denver's emotional tank is pretty well empty right now. And HE needs to recharge that.
The contact that he has right now, are just words....there are no actions to back anything up. And those empty words ( from both of them ) are causing him to stay right where she left him.
IF...Denver was in a place, where the contact did not affect him, then I would encourage it more. But he isn't.
This is being played as if it were only Denver's wifes choice. As if she held all of the cards. And the truth is ??
He has a choice in this too.....
He has a choice to take this time for himself...to heal , and to grow....
To figure out who he is....
And if he can do that, THAT is the best chance of having a new relationship with his current spouse....
As far as Denver having anything left to show his wife ?
I think he has a lot to offer her.
Although I do believe that his fear is driving his actions toward her.
As people, we develop fears. That is normal behavior in us.
Recognizing those fears and dealing with them in a healthy manner is what seperates most of us.
Letting those fears take us over is where the line is drawn most of the time.
Those fears become thoughts
Thoughts become words
Words become actions..
And before we realize it....those actions steer us toward the things we fear the most...
Essentially, we let those fears become goals, that we work toward....
I.E.-----Denver is so afraid of becoming the "old Denver" ...that he is pushing the "new Denver" so hard against his wife, that the "old" is coming through in his actions. In the form of controlling behavior.
That is the direction I am going........
And I am done talking about Denver like he isn't here...
Unfortunately for me, you are all correct. I'm really to the point where i don't know that there is one 'right' answer to how I should proceed.
I'm still contemplating going to zero contact with W... in which case I would tell her what MHL has suggested that I tell her.
However, I also very much agree with what 25 said... that the chances of reconciliation are pretty slim if there is no contact between us. Can I handle casual contact with W as you asked 25? Starsky, MHL and Mach are all correct that I have demonstrated time and again that it does draw me back in pretty easily. I do think that my mental attitude is quite a bit different now than it has been in the past several months. Mostly, that I feel that I am DONE letting my W use my past behaviors in our M to continue to justify her choices now. I feel that I am DONE trying to convince her to forgive me. And finally, I am DONE trying to convince her that I have changed and that we can have a great M. I feel that I have suffered enough for my sins in our M. I feel that my W has had plenty of opportunity to see that I do understand what I didn't understand during our M and that I have changed. It is up to her to forgive me and see that she and I can have a bright future together.
HOWEVER, the question remains as to whether or not I can maintain that attitude with casual contact with W.
Your thread title should give you the answer to this question...
Denver,
Initially I tried to maintain casual contact with my H. Every bit of contact I tried to show him my changes. He didn't believe them. He still remembered the "old" me. One day when he was particularly nasty to me, I decided that NC was the best way to go for me. Because I reacted and didn't like it.
NC, turned out to be the best thing I was able to do FOR MYSELF. It gave me the time away from him to stop wondering or caring if doing this or that would make a difference. It gave me the time to figure things out that I needed to figure out. It gave me time to like myself again.
My H, noticed those changes because eventually brief casual contact did resume (when I was able to deal with it), when I didn't say WTF when he texted me something stupid. When I could respond to those texts like I was responding to anyone else. He noticed them and liked them.
While it didn't reconcile our M (remember I was dealing with a MLCer who is still on his journey), it did improve our overall R.
Had he just been a WAS, who knows...
My point, is that I gained what I needed from NC. I was able to get off of the rollercoaster and begin to actually live my life. I stopped spinning and I stopped being stuck.
Denver, when you stop looking for the "right" answer to reconcile your M, you will find the "right" answer for yourself.
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
Unfortunately for me, you are all correct. I'm really to the point where i don't know that there is one 'right' answer to how I should proceed.
I'm still contemplating going to zero contact with W... in which case I would tell her what MHL has suggested that I tell her.
However, I also very much agree with what 25 said... that the chances of reconciliation are pretty slim if there is no contact between us. Can I handle casual contact with W as you asked 25? Starsky, MHL and Mach are all correct that I have demonstrated time and again that it does draw me back in pretty easily. I do think that my mental attitude is quite a bit different now than it has been in the past several months. Mostly, that I feel that I am DONE letting my W use my past behaviors in our M to continue to justify her choices now. I feel that I am DONE trying to convince her to forgive me. And finally, I am DONE trying to convince her that I have changed and that we can have a great M. I feel that I have suffered enough for my sins in our M. I feel that my W has had plenty of opportunity to see that I do understand what I didn't understand during our M and that I have changed. It is up to her to forgive me and see that she and I can have a bright future together.
HOWEVER, the question remains as to whether or not I can maintain that attitude with casual contact with W.
Your thread title should give you the answer to this question...
Denver,
Initially I tried to maintain casual contact with my H. Every bit of contact I tried to show him my changes. He didn't believe them. He still remembered the "old" me. One day when he was particularly nasty to me, I decided that NC was the best way to go for me. Because I reacted and didn't like it.
NC, turned out to be the best thing I was able to do FOR MYSELF. It gave me the time away from him to stop wondering or caring if doing this or that would make a difference. It gave me the time to figure things out that I needed to figure out. It gave me time to like myself again.
My H, noticed those changes because eventually brief casual contact did resume (when I was able to deal with it), when I didn't say WTF when he texted me something stupid. When I could respond to those texts like I was responding to anyone else. He noticed them and liked them.
While it didn't reconcile our M (remember I was dealing with a MLCer who is still on his journey), it did improve our overall R.
Had he just been a WAS, who knows...
My point, is that I gained what I needed from NC. I was able to get off of the rollercoaster and begin to actually live my life. I stopped spinning and I stopped being stuck.
Denver, when you stop looking for the "right" answer to reconcile your M, you will find the "right" answer for yourself.
Thanks Cat. Point taken.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Even though talking as if I weren't in the room! LOL!
Unfortunately for me, you are all correct. I'm really to the point where i don't know that there is one 'right' answer to how I should proceed.
I'm still contemplating going to zero contact with W... in which case I would tell her what MHL has suggested that I tell her.
However, I also very much agree with what 25 said... that the chances of reconciliation are pretty slim if there is no contact between us. Can I handle casual contact with W as you asked 25? Starsky, MHL and Mach are all correct that I have demonstrated time and again that it does draw me back in pretty easily. I do think that my mental attitude is quite a bit different now than it has been in the past several months. Mostly, that I feel that I am DONE letting my W use my past behaviors in our M to continue to justify her choices now. I feel that I am DONE trying to convince her to forgive me. And finally, I am DONE trying to convince her that I have changed and that we can have a great M. I feel that I have suffered enough for my sins in our M. I feel that my W has had plenty of opportunity to see that I do understand what I didn't understand during our M and that I have changed. It is up to her to forgive me and see that she and I can have a bright future together.
HOWEVER, the question remains as to whether or not I can maintain that attitude with casual contact with W.
Regardless of whether or not I talk to her on the phone or text with her now and then... I am dead set on not spending time with her until she commits to working on the M. I will not waver on this.
25 - I agree that W made a mistake by moving SS away from his friends. I also expect that there is going to be a blow up soon.
I will tell you what I am going to do over the next several days... I'm going to go back an reread relevant portions of DR.
MHL - Thanks for pointing out the difference bw committing to the M and committing to WORKING on the M. Seeing that difference, which I do now, may be useful to me in the future.
------
Brief UPDATE...
W texted me again last night at around 11 p.m. Seemed to be a continuation of the text messages that she sent me earlier in the day.
W: "And the house smells on J's side of the house and kitchen. We are worried there's a dead animal under that side of the house. Don't see anything inside."
Me: "I hope that your landlord is taking care of this stuff for you guys. That is ridiculous."
W: "I know. So frustrating!"
I did not respond to her last text.
Sounds like W moved into a great place (sarcasm)!
Denver
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
