I think you're right vc - I was probably a step or two above a baglady for years. All in the name of saving money, but who could possibly be attracted to someone like that? I don't know what I was thinking.
H said from the beginning that he was an affectionate person but I didn't catch out to how emotionally needy he was until he started pouting when I went out without him. He's not outwardly jealous or territorial, but he definitely needs to stay connected by some means all the time. Whether by phone, text, email or telegram - that's why it is bothering him to have his access to the ow cut off.
But in turn, he has been seeking me out for those emotional needs, and he is acting more stable. His phone, which is usually beeping or ringing off the hook has been eerily quiet. He already tried the secret phone route once, and he knows that there is nowhere safe for him to hide. No locker at work, we share a car and I clean everything in the house.
I myself have done my fair share of snooping. Immediately after finding about ow#1, I guessed his cell phone online access password and tracked his calls and texts. It only took him a few weeks to figure out how I knew what he was doing, so he changed the password. About six months later I guessed it again and kept my lips sealed for more than 2 years. That is how I know when he was going honest versus trying to cover things up. Those two boneheads went as far as having him call her at her job instead of her cell. She works at a college, so it took me little time to figure that one out.
It just became far too time and energy consuming to keep up with it - for the both of us. After the confrontation over the summer, ow#1 was shattered. I think she really felt like she was the 'one' and had no idea that he was sharing their 'secrets' with me. Oh well.
I never found any keepsakes, so I'm kind of glad for that. I can imagine how good it might have felt for you to destroy that box. I'm lucky in that none of these women used 'Light his Fire,' - strangely enough, ow#1 seemed to drive him away by being overly aggressive and verbally abusive. I've read messages from her to him where she berates him, cusses him out, it was kind of insane. Even at our worst times, I have never said anything like that to him, and it seemed to be quite common between him and ow#1.
What I do know about ow#2 is that she is recently divorced and seems to enjoy being single, but still wants the benefits of being in a relationship without being tied down. Why else would she be reaching out to old boyfriends rather than to just move forward? After getting through a messy divorce, she might be avoiding getting into anything that complicates her life. If so, good riddance to bad rubbish.
Being more caring, thoughtful, paying attention to his moods and truly listening seems to be working really, really well. Same as when I validated his feelings, agreed to split up and pulled away almost completely. Its still touch and go at this point, but I am encouraged by the fact that he is staying put. No random trips to the store, he calls more often, is still acting 'normal' even if somewhat sad at times. Just got the invoice from the counselor, so I have to figure out how to get us back into therapy in the next week or so.
I wonder if ow#2 wants to pay all other women back for whatever her H did by going after married men. I have a sister who likes to go after married men. But, with her, she likes the challenge of taking someone else's man.
When I stopped defending myself when H would say something, and started the "you're right" and "I'm sorry you feel that way", he seemed to respond better to me. So, I let him be right all the time, even when he wasn't. You're right about the listening, he wants to be heard.
He also used to make random trips to the store at night. Funny how suddenly some things became absolute necessities at 9 pm. Maybe your H is starting to come back, because he is doing stuff my H started doing, too.
Hopefully you can figure out how to get back to the C soon, maybe before Christmas. I wonder how the counselor will handle the "serial cheater" thing. Is it the same as when they cheat once as far as we know? Is it easier or harder? I've never read anything on that.
I don't think its a matter of payback with this one, just selfishness. Same thing with H. When we first saw our counselor, he didn't want to say that he had started up with ow#2 during our reconciliation. He later admitted that it was just a matter of timing and selfishness. Just the same way that I can't understand why anyone would cheat, I'll never understand the men and women that allow themselves to become the affair partners.
C is well aware of H's issues with serial cheating. He is a sex therapist with oodles of experience under his belt. Not that he was able to gain a whole lot of information from our first visit, but I do believe that he would have went into a different direction if he didn't think that H was 'fixable' at least to some extent. However, the prognosis for serial cheaters is quite poor overall. Most people think that serial cheaters can change if they want to, but it usually includes them ending the relationships that they have cheated in.
I truly think that H had the misfortune of being surrounded by men that lack morals growing up. They made cheating into some kind of sport or rite of passage that they had to go through in order to be men. H is the most respectful, sensitive and considerate out of all of the men in his life. He has a lot of pressure to be this perfect person, and I guess instead of being hooked on drugs he chose another vice.
The fact is, anyone that has cheated - as in, had sexual or inappropriate contact with another person on more than one occasion is a serial cheater to me. Its the repetitive behavior that makes it 'serial.' Of course, I can't really compare my situation to those that only have had 1 ow or om during the course of their relationships. In the end, it hurts all the same.
I'm looking towards seeing the C in the next two weeks or so. Definitely before the holidays as we will be dealing with our families a lot more closely. H's mother is a huge source of stress. Way too much to even go into with her, but she is probably going to pass soon and I have to be sensitive to everyone's feelings.
I agree with you, whether it's one or more than one, it is so painful to have been betrayed by the one person you thought you could trust in the whole world. It made me feel I couldn't trust him to protect me even in a life or death situation.
I feel bad for any man who grows up with men without moral values to guide him. I think a lot of fathers are going to have a lot to answer for one day. I believe with a lot of therapy, a man can unlearn some of those bad behaviors. I like to think so, anyway. vc
Yup. His betrayal(s) caused me to feel pain like none I have ever felt before. Really amazing that I am still at least somewhat sane.
I'm not sure if there is really any 'bad' behavior to unlearn moreso than H needing to take responsibility for his actions and become accountable for them. That as well as having real repercussions. He seems to have stopped hanging around with his 'loser' friends as much, which is also a good sign. In addition to apologizing again on Saturday night, he also thanked me for not leaving him. I must have had a big question mark on my face, because he then stated that he had been thinking a lot and begun to realize all of the chaos that his actions caused.
I'm paying attention to his actions more than his words, and so far so good. H recalled a conversation that he had with one of his more mature friends and said that he had completely ended things with ow#2. I have still not brought up the password thing, but I am hoping to delve into transparency at our next counseling session.
I think part of the reason that he is making such fast progress might have to do with the fact that I am becoming more attractive to other men. He playfully grabbed my phone earlier in the evening and said "Who are you texting?" That was really strange behavior for him, so maybe he's paranoid that I am taking his advice about 'seeking happiness.' He's never been possessive and we never kid around like that.
Overall, the weekend was good. Went out on Saturday night, although I wasn't able to make it to church on Sunday. Don't want to do that again, I really felt like I missed out.
Originally Posted By: verycrazy
I agree with you, whether it's one or more than one, it is so painful to have been betrayed by the one person you thought you could trust in the whole world. It made me feel I couldn't trust him to protect me even in a life or death situation.
I feel bad for any man who grows up with men without moral values to guide him. I think a lot of fathers are going to have a lot to answer for one day. I believe with a lot of therapy, a man can unlearn some of those bad behaviors. I like to think so, anyway. vc
Wow, it sounds like he is really thinking about things a lot. He is really opening up to you. It's interesting his wanting to know who you are texting, and grabbing your phone, instead of letting you just tell him, like you might be untruthful about it.
I guess what I meant by "bad behavior" is how some men have learned how to behave in situations dealing with relationships with women based on the behaviors they have modeled to them as boys growing up with those same types of men as role models. But, I do agree with you, he does need to take responsibility for his own actions. And it sounds like he may be on that track.
Him grabbing my phone still bugs me a bit, but I don't want to read into things. I think that I would be able to get him to give me all of his passwords if I asked again, but I really prefer to address it in therapy. Everything that he has done so far has been on his own terms. On one hand, I don't want to be naive - there may still want to be things that he is hiding. At the same time, we both respected each other's privacy until I learned that he cheated. Since then, its been non-stop snooping, prying, sneaking and lying. At this point, I'd be happy just to see the bill each month. I really don't need to see what he and his macho-man friends text to one another (think chain letter type text filled with boobs and beer and the like).
As for relearning responsibility and getting rid of his bad behaviors - well, he says that he's happy and appreciates what he has at home. Words are great, but his actions have matched everything he says. I'm kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop, but I don't think about it much because I don't want to send off any bad energies.
We are both being so positive towards each other, with no real effort, that I'm beginning to get scared. My changes took weeks and even months to become permanent, so I am trying to be patient - and less cynical. I'm impressed with the fact that H has been so stable even though he is very nervous about being laid off.
Yesterday he asked if I wanted to go to the movies this weekend and we now have another babysitter. I'm continuing to bust my tail at home trying to save a little extra money in preparation for some lean times. I kind of want to put a marker on this post and see if things are similar in a month, then six months, then a year out from now. I'm hoping that they will be.
Originally Posted By: verycrazy
Wow, it sounds like he is really thinking about things a lot. He is really opening up to you. It's interesting his wanting to know who you are texting, and grabbing your phone, instead of letting you just tell him, like you might be untruthful about it.
I guess what I meant by "bad behavior" is how some men have learned how to behave in situations dealing with relationships with women based on the behaviors they have modeled to them as boys growing up with those same types of men as role models. But, I do agree with you, he does need to take responsibility for his own actions. And it sounds like he may be on that track.
Hi, I hope things are still going well, and you have a wonderful weekend, and enjoy the movie. I don't need it, so could you eat a bucket of popcorn with tons of butter or whatever it is on it for me?
I would say to continue on with how you are going about it, and keep a guard on your heart. I hope things are similar in a month or six months for you too, only even better! vc
Hi vc. Don't know how I missed this post, but I did have a pretty decent weekend. R wise, I couldn't ask for anything more. H got me an early Christmas present - a new smartphone on a joint phone line. Meaning that he got rid of his old phone and old number. I know, I know, we still have a lot of work to do, but at least there's no lock on this phone and he's offered it to me several times.
I'm still working hard just to make sure that we have a good nest egg. H has been working at different locations, but I don't know how long he will be able to go before the furlough definitively comes. I think we've both been handling it pretty well.
My real source of stress is coming from my mom - who is temporarily living with us. She just showed up last week, and I have had a permanent migraine since. H doesn't have a problem with it, actually encouraged it to be honest. He has a lot of respect and admiration from her (maybe because his own mom is, yeah, let's leave that one alone). I, on the other hand, am going stir crazy. Its only supposed to last until January, but I am definitely resentful.
On one hand, I am totally angry at her. She knows better than anyone how precarious our R is right now. I do know that there are other places that she can stay, but I guess it means something that she feels most comfortable here. I just wish should would have given me some advanced notice. I had a few words with her today, so hopefully things will get better after this.
Do you feel around your mother like you did as a kid? Sometimes it's hard for our parents to treat us like full grown adults, when THEY know they used to clean our behinds. It was like that with my mother, (I know about the headaches!)then a few years ago, we got to a point where we were able to become kind of friends. Now she has had a stroke, and none of that is possible anymore. I hope things do get better for you with her, maybe the talk you had with her will help. Be careful of getting too stressed out while she is there, so it doesn't spill over to your R with your H.
Will your H be able to find something full time while he is off work? I hope it won't get bad financially for y'all, you don't need THAT, too.
