I'm afraid to here the answers to this....I am naive on the topic.
Is it customary for seperated people to date.....have sex with other people before a D is finalized? I know it happens...not that stupid.
Just seems to be the ultimate insult to me. I know we are splitting but still feel a commitment to fulfill the vows we took until they are officially gone. I also know that my W having sex wtih someone else would push our sitch beyond the point of reconciliation. Hope would be lost at that point. Maybe I'm just afraid of the finality of it? I plan to honor our vows until the end, is it out of line to expect the same from her?
RO, The separation is an emotional phase for both of you. If you want - Check out my 1st page of my Too Tired To Fight Thread.
To sum it up, my separation was probably one of the most loving moments in my marriage with my w. There were alot of tears. There were times when we were separating stuff, and she just lost it. There were times when I did. We did our best to be there for each other. We validated each others feelings and pushed our selfishness aside. It was the strongest we had ever been.
It still didn't stop her from walking out the door. It still didn't stop her from wanting a D. I'm glad I didn't know what the outcome was going to be, because I'm not sure I would have been strong enough to do what I did.. but I know this. I DBed my A$$ off and my w noticed. But the other half of the equation is.. what they do with the new info? That is out of our hands.
My point being is that people are going to give alot of feedback on this process. Some will say - It's her decision, let her figure it out. Other like me - will say - be there if she is emotional.
At the end of the day, look at this as an opportunity. An opportunity to push yourself to grow and show the best RO possible. If in the end you can say "I am proud of how I handled that, I have no regrets" you did great. No matter the outcome. Only you can decide who that RO looks like.
As far as the dating when separated... here's the deal. Nothing is normal or customary. There are no "how to" books on how to EXACTLY handle this because every situation is different. There are a ton of similarities, but there are always variables.
If you can - Stop having expectations of your w. She's not the w you married (I assume) right now. I couldn't believe some of the sh!t my w was doing. Stuff we agreed upon, stuff we both believed in.. all gone. There were alot of WTF moments in the beginning and even still. Having no expectations can help limit the pain and detach a bit. It's not easy stuff, but it helps.
Only you can decide if her having sex with someone would push you sitch beyond reconciliation. I'm not sure if I posted it here or somewhere else so forgive me. You are limiting yourself, your w, and God in that statement. If you can't forgive (and some people can't) own up to your part of it.. but realize it's YOU saying the relationship can't be saved if that happens. You are saying your heart can't be changed.
I'm not supporting your w decisions, infidelity, or dismissing your feelings. Man I still fume when I think of my w dating and having sex with others. But I also know that my anger only destroys me. It stops me from forgiving her. It stops God from changing my heart. What she's doing affects me.. but I was letting it define me. Does that make sense?
Sorry for the long rant. You're doing good. The challenges are getting harder, but keep it up. You can do this! Be the man only a fool would leave!
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
RO, The separation is an emotional phase for both of you. If you want - Check out my 1st page of my Too Tired To Fight Thread.
To sum it up, my separation was probably one of the most loving moments in my marriage with my w. There were alot of tears. There were times when we were separating stuff, and she just lost it. There were times when I did. We did our best to be there for each other. We validated each others feelings and pushed our selfishness aside. It was the strongest we had ever been.
It still didn't stop her from walking out the door. It still didn't stop her from wanting a D. I'm glad I didn't know what the outcome was going to be, because I'm not sure I would have been strong enough to do what I did.. but I know this. I DBed my A$$ off and my w noticed. But the other half of the equation is.. what they do with the new info? That is out of our hands.
My point being is that people are going to give alot of feedback on this process. Some will say - It's her decision, let her figure it out. Other like me - will say - be there if she is emotional.
At the end of the day, look at this as an opportunity. An opportunity to push yourself to grow and show the best RO possible. If in the end you can say "I am proud of how I handled that, I have no regrets" you did great. No matter the outcome. Only you can decide who that RO looks like.
As far as the dating when separated... here's the deal. Nothing is normal or customary. There are no "how to" books on how to EXACTLY handle this because every situation is different. There are a ton of similarities, but there are always variables.
If you can - Stop having expectations of your w. She's not the w you married (I assume) right now. I couldn't believe some of the sh!t my w was doing. Stuff we agreed upon, stuff we both believed in.. all gone. There were alot of WTF moments in the beginning and even still. Having no expectations can help limit the pain and detach a bit. It's not easy stuff, but it helps.
**I have become a lot better at not expecting anything from her other than her attempts to perpetuate the anger. I still have a long way to go though. I know who she is and this person that she has become is difficult to stomach.
Only you can decide if her having sex with someone would push you sitch beyond reconciliation. I'm not sure if I posted it here or somewhere else so forgive me. You are limiting yourself, your w, and God in that statement. If you can't forgive (and some people can't) own up to your part of it.. but realize it's YOU saying the relationship can't be saved if that happens. You are saying your heart can't be changed.
**It would and she knows it. It may sound like a hard stance and it is. I know every spouse holds fidelity in high regard. It is a particularly big issue for me. On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd rate it about a 12. I am actually somewhat concerned that she may do it just to spite me. To really drive me away. I also know I can't control it so I try not to think about it.
I'm not supporting your w decisions, infidelity, or dismissing your feelings. Man I still fume when I think of my w dating and having sex with others. But I also know that my anger only destroys me. It stops me from forgiving her. It stops God from changing my heart. What she's doing affects me.. but I was letting it define me. Does that make sense?
**It does make sense. I am new to the whole concept of forgiveness. It's one of the reasons I've had issue with myself for so long. I am trying to not let anything she does define me any longer. It is a hard transition/transformation.
Sorry for the long rant. You're doing good. The challenges are getting harder, but keep it up. You can do this! Be the man only a fool would leave!
Val, thank you for your words of encouragement. I am alone in the house today. I am trying to process things. My thoughts are becoming clearer so that helps. I realize more and more each day that my ability to control is limited to myself. My W is gone. I need to really accept that.
I don’t think she intends to sleep with anyone…at least at the moment. I think she is trying to accomplish 2 things by even bringing it up. First, she wants to be absolutely free of me and my expectations of our fidelity are a means of me controlling her. She seems to have little regard for our vows because she feels our M is over now. Secondly, she knows it is a hot button for me and she is trying to fuel her fire. She brought it up at the end of a cordial conversation we were having….she can't end on a positive. I took it a lot better than I thought I would but not as well as I would have liked.
My next response is going to be something like this, “Out of respect for you, our family and our vows, I plan to not have a physical relationship with another woman until our D is finalized. You are free to do what you need to do to make yourself happy”.
i dont know when your next conversation is going to be with her, but i would hold off on that statement till you get some feed back from a few other further along people here.
to me, and this is just my opinion, it sounds like you are still trying to control what she might do with some guilt, and a little bit of talking down to her with that statement.
'i feel that i will not be ready to move on with anyone else until the divorce is final.' or something better worded like that. no you statements, just I.
i dont know when your next conversation is going to be with her, but i would hold off on that statement till you get some feed back from a few other further along people here.
to me, and this is just my opinion, it sounds like you are still trying to control what she might do with some guilt, and a little bit of talking down to her with that statement.
'i feel that i will not be ready to move on with anyone else until the divorce is final.' or something better worded like that. no you statements, just I.
I agree. That statement is saying you respect those things, but if she dates.. she doesn't. And although that might be true.. what did you accomplish. Nothing other than shoving your beliefs down her throat.
If you don't plan on dating.. just don't do it. Standing up for what you believe in is an action, not words. If she does bring it up. You can just say "No I don't plan on it" and leave it simple.
She's is trying to fuel her fire. She is doing it so if/when does do date, she is justified in her actions. She is convincing herself that she has permission to fully experience her freedom.
What can ya do about her.. nothing. So don't try.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
I have been too focused on hoping the negatives of this situation will get her to reconsider her decision as they start to become apparent to her.
My not doing everything I possibly can to improve myself make it more unlikely she will come back. It is so easy to say but difficult to do....I NEED to control the controllables.
read THIS^^^^ again and again...and let it sink in.
Where the head goes, the heart will follow...(eventually)
The harder you make it for her to come back...the harder it will be!
Figure this no brainer out. Stop trying to guilt/punish her. If you want her back then you have to
KEEP THE ROAD HOME PAVED AND SMOOTH...she's a mom. She will always have guilt about her kids. She doesn't need You to remind her of it more plus it hurts your cause.
it's an example of you putting your anger and desire to "show her a thing or two" taking priority over your desire to reconcile....for God's sake see this and change it before it's too late.
And day to day contact does NOT always make it easier to see changes. Just the opposite.
Plus it's much much harder TO MAKE the changes when the WAS is always around.
Use this gift of time to work on yourself and make the changes so obvoius that when you do have contact
which you will have
it'll be obvious and demonstrable. Same with phone conversations AND with getting her to wonder about what you are doing with your free time
all things that won't happen with you staring at her all the time...and getting in her face b/c your record so far of being able to back off....is lousy.
Have you truly read the Div Remedy book to the end? Please do so b/c some of this is amptly covered in it. It'll reinforce your plan of action, which is to work on yourself ONLY.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I'm afraid to here the answers to this....I am naive on the topic.
Is it customary for seperated people to date.....have sex with other people before a D is finalized? I know it happens...not that stupid.
Just seems to be the ultimate insult to me. I know we are splitting but still feel a commitment to fulfill the vows we took until they are officially gone. I also know that my W having sex wtih someone else would push our sitch beyond the point of reconciliation. Hope would be lost at that point. Maybe I'm just afraid of the finality of it? I plan to honor our vows until the end, is it out of line to expect the same from her?
good for you and yes it is WAY out of line for you to expect the same from her, or anything btw, AND not within your control!
No matter how many rules YOU set down for HER...she can and will do what she wants. You need to get that.
ACCEPT REALITY...
If anything, she's more likely to do it b/c you told her she can't...
RO, some of this stuff surprises me. Like you are doing what you know is the opposite of DBing...
why? You can tell her that You will honor your vows as long as you are married and leave it at that. (And don't make that promise if you can't keep it.)
Something tells me you will want to be with someone so badly that you will break this promise--or sure want to. Since she has been lonely in the m, maybe that will assist you in understanding her past pain.
In her mind, perhaps, you broke the vow to honor and cherish her.
But that's the past. So focus on what you feel you can say or promise and keep the promise. Or better yet, say nothing and let her wonder.
Or let her come up with your "sep guidelines" if she wants...and only if she wants to. Can you do that? Can you surrender the illusion of control you want so much?
that'd be a true 180
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I have been too focused on hoping the negatives of this situation will get her to reconsider her decision as they start to become apparent to her.
My not doing everything I possibly can to improve myself make it more unlikely she will come back. It is so easy to say but difficult to do....I NEED to control the controllables.
read THIS^^^^ again and again...and let it sink in.
Where the head goes, the heart will follow...(eventually)
The harder you make it for her to come back...the harder it will be!
Figure this no brainer out. Stop trying to guilt/punish her. If you want her back then you have to
**I know. I need to learn silence and validation. She insults or misinterprets something I have said or done and my defenses come up. I need to not be affected by her venom. She feels enough pain. My being associated with it is unproductive.
Most of our more intense conversations are regarding the dissolution of our assets. I have been poor and don’t want to go back. I made the personal sacrifice (joint decision with W) to leave a career to move our family home and she is kicking me to the curb with no job in the worst economy since the Depression. Should we stay together because of it? No, but man do I feel like I am absolutely getting shafted here. I am scared about my financial future. I’ve never been scared of anything. I am working getting a job but I don’t have control over it. My confidence in a rut right now for the first time in my life as well. It is getting better. I am feeling better about myself. Feeling sorry for myself does no good and I understand that but these are scary times.
Adding to my tension is that it’s being done unnecessarily IMHO. I know she is entitled to her opinion…obviously. She is not herself….hell, she told me that. Every time we broach the subject, she wants to talk about her legal rights. I mention mine (child support, spousal support, etc) and she gets defensive and agitated. I don’t know of a way to tiptoe around this conversation. I am trying to figure it out.
KEEP THE ROAD HOME PAVED AND SMOOTH...she's a mom. She will always have guilt about her kids. She doesn't need You to remind her of it more plus it hurts your cause.
it's an example of you putting your anger and desire to "show her a thing or two" taking priority over your desire to reconcile....for God's sake see this and change it before it's too late.
And day to day contact does NOT always make it easier to see changes. Just the opposite.
Plus it's much much harder TO MAKE the changes when the WAS is always around.
Use this gift of time to work on yourself and make the changes so obvoius that when you do have contact
which you will have
it'll be obvious and demonstrable. Same with phone conversations AND with getting her to wonder about what you are doing with your free time
all things that won't happen with you staring at her all the time...and getting in her face b/c your record so far of being able to back off....is lousy.
** You make a lot of sense MLC. I greatly respect your perspective on this and appreciate the guidance. I'm sorry I haven't done the best job at following it. I am getting better.
Have you truly read the Div Remedy book to the end? Please do so b/c some of this is amptly covered in it. It'll reinforce your plan of action, which is to work on yourself ONLY.
** I have read it but am in need of a refresher. Understanding and putting into action are two very different things. I need to calm down and be more deliberate in my thgouht regarding my W.
I'm afraid to here the answers to this....I am naive on the topic.
Is it customary for seperated people to date.....have sex with other people before a D is finalized? I know it happens...not that stupid.
Just seems to be the ultimate insult to me. I know we are splitting but still feel a commitment to fulfill the vows we took until they are officially gone. I also know that my W having sex wtih someone else would push our sitch beyond the point of reconciliation. Hope would be lost at that point. Maybe I'm just afraid of the finality of it? I plan to honor our vows until the end, is it out of line to expect the same from her?
good for you and yes it is WAY out of line for you to expect the same from her, or anything btw, AND not within your control!
No matter how many rules YOU set down for HER...she can and will do what she wants. You need to get that.
ACCEPT REALITY...
If anything, she's more likely to do it b/c you told her she can't...
**absolutely....the first thing my DB coach told me was that i'm dealing with a 16 yr old girl and I'm her Dad.
RO, some of this stuff surprises me. Like you are doing what you know is the opposite of DBing...
why?
**This all started when I suspected she was having a PA about a month ago. She wasn't. I was at the point where I was finally standing up and letting her know that I was done being a doormat and that I do not deserve to be disrespected. A PA is the ultimate disrespect from my W in my opinion. Doesn't make it right, but it was an extremely emotional time and we both "agreed" to not engage in PA's until the D was done. She backed off that promise this am. Just to get me worked up I think and I didn't respond very much. You can tell her that You will honor your vows as long as you are married and leave it at that. (And don't make that promise if you can't keep it.)
Something tells me you will want to be with someone so badly that you will break this promise--or sure want to. Since she has been lonely in the m, maybe that will assist you in understanding her past pain.
**I am certainly not going to lie, I have thought about it. I am a very physical guy and my W and I always had an outstanding sex life. She flat out told me that she knows I have needs and to go date and I was free to have sex with other women. I see it as a trap. My taking advantage of it would give her validation for what she's doing. I did thank her for the offer though.
In her mind, perhaps, you broke the vow to honor and cherish her.
**Great point. I did, though not intentionally I feel.
But that's the past. So focus on what you feel you can say or promise and keep the promise. Or better yet, say nothing and let her wonder.
Or let her come up with your "sep guidelines" if she wants...and only if she wants to.
**She wants no such guidelines....she's "done". Can you do that? Can you surrender the illusion of control you want so much?
I struggle with seeing myself as an over the top “control” guy. I do certainly have hot button issues though…doesn’t everyone? My W is, or was, so nice she never spoke her mind about most things. I’d ask “where do you want to go to Dinner” and she would defer to me or list 5 possibilities. We bought our first house and she didn’t even want to see it first. She looked at the pictures and said “We have the same taste, I trust you”. She found our last house on the internet and we bought that without her seeing it too. We own 40 acres of land and plans for a house….during the design phase, her most common response or input was “you know me, I’m easy to please”. WTH?
I definitely am more of a decision maker and I am definitely more of a type A personality but man if it’s an issue can you say something? We now live in a house “she didn’t want”, we have assets she “really didn’t want to buy”. I wish I could turn the clock back and either listen better or probe for her input more, I would. I can understand how the accumulation of this situation has boiled into her feeling that I am a domineering control freak.
