Val, I think you are measuring progress in the right way. I think real change occurs a little bit at a time, especially if we are changing our behaviors.
Sometimes we are forced in to situations that require a dramatic change or series of changes. In my experience these are short lived. Once the stimuli forcing the change are removed we revert to old habits.
Real change occurs when we take each small step on the journey ourselves b/c we want or recognize the need to. Recognizing each small step, savoring the progress, affirming it is right for you, makes it easier for each of us to cement the changes into our future.
Wow, 13 written goals, that is a lot. No wonder it seems like your mind is spinning sometimes. Like Telemark posted you have a lot of plates in the air.
How many of those can be combined? How many of those are steps along your path? Points at which you can say I’ve made it this far now on to the next/larger one.
Think about paring down your list then adding action statements. How will I get there? Avoid the minutia, pick a few high points. You already do this in your professional life the skills you there use can be applied here.
I know it is tough, I struggle with it also, IMO you need to detach more. I think the emotions tied to your W are causing you difficulties with using the planning skills you already have and use in other part of your life.
Didn’t you post about reading T.J.F.A.T.H? There is an exercise in it I struggle with, but I do it anyway. About the adult you reassuring the 5 year old inner child?
In light of some of the whining I have done on this board I hesitated to answer your question. I spent several years during my first enlistment in SoCal, Primarily at MCB Camp Pendleton, MCB 29 Palms, and 3 months at MCMWTC Bridgeport.
During the late 70’s and early 80’s when I wasn’t in the brush, mud, sand, rocks or snow I was availing myself of the recreational activities available to a late teen early twenty something in SoCal. I am a Marine Veteran. One trip to TJ, but that is a sea story for another time.
Nice quote about justice. My mom tells me something similiar just not as eloquently.
BITS Me 55, ACK, when did that happen? Doesn't feel like 55 D 30 S 27
You create your own universe as you go along - Winston Churchill
Still no call back from w. I know this is the first week of school for her. She's usually crazy busy for the 1st 3 wks or so. So you know the most likely reasons for her not calling yet. Plus, she may feel fear of conflict the way you fear it (instead of assuming your fears mean she abuses you, accept the possibility that it's simply fear of confrontation or fear of facing a tough tough topic...
I worked with criminally abusive defendants (didn't ask for those cases but once you have a case that goes to appeals and you win, you tend to "attract" more of them. Make sense?) Anyhow, that's why I have a strong reaction to the word "abuse" when you are mainly referring to controlling manipulative behaviors and frankly you describe some of your own...with her. The jealousy of her time could be seen (wrongly I think) as you sabotaging her career. Just an example.
Every year we would have our annual fight during the beginning of school. I would miss spending time with her, and we would fight about it. See how she could view this^^^? IT's just insecurity on both sides. And lacking tools for dealing with that and conflict. She certainly had no role model and learned nothing about conflict resolution or dealing with fear and pain from her mom.
I remember last year, I was on a shoot in San Francisco, I was coming home early and she was disappointed. She said it had been nice not having me home so she could focus on school. I was hurt that she wasn't excited to see me. IF this were to happen today in a r, do you think you could see this as the opportunity it was? The opportunity for growth and insight b/c she is giving you valuable info here. Rather than focusing on how you felt disappointed she wasn't welcoming you, can you see the value of HER feelings and do you think today, you'd change your approach to her so she wouldn't feel glad when you are gone?
I wish I would have been able to express my feelings clearly. Hindsight is 20/20. Either way, I'm sure she will look at this time as a positive to not being married to me anymore.
Sorry - I know I shouldn't think that way. I shouldn't assume I know why she hasn't gotten back to me. you DO know why. She's busy in school AND she probably has the same fears of calling you that you had when you saw her number. Do you see how you are giving yourself plausible reasons for avoidance, but giving her none?
I'm just mad that I'm stupidly waiting for her call back. Every day that goes by, I'm like "really.. you couldn't have just taken 5 minutes to call me back". But I'm reminded how long it took me to send my email, to call her back. It's not about her, It's about controlling me. My reactions, my feelings, learning to be patient, learning to have faith. Val, get a grip. You are making this worse than it is and you are trying hard to make her "wrong". Keep reminding yourself of how long it took you to seen the email and call her back and be fairer to her.
I'm sitting in so many emotions any more. I try not to think about w, but it's there all the time. Not just our m, but trying to deal with my lack of self-worth and the emotional abuse wounds, her not calling you back is NOT "abuse". Geez Val, it's just not.
If it is, it's no different than how long you took to call her back. And you struggled with that , (was that "abuse"?)
You almost took a much longer time to call her back. Maybe you waited to call til you thought she wasn't going to answer. Maybe that crossed her mind and she thinks you were playing games, "abusing" her...come on Val....
no more victimhood for THIS type of thing. IT's sweating the small stuff and I do mean small. So what if she hasn't called you back? Seriously. No biggie. Put it out of your mind and do not characterize it as anything but her not calling you back yet.
dealing with terminally ill family members, dealing with friendships. All seem to connect to m or w some how. that IS a lot to deal with. But they are not all related except you want support from your w and instead you dealing with a pending divorce. The timing stinks.
Urgh. So tough. I know it's good stuff.. I am just expressing my inner 5 year old right now.
very good to recognize this. And not act on it. That's key b/c we all have the little kid in us who wants to get taken care of when we are sick
even if we don't eat Chicken & Stars soup anymore.
I notice my 14 y/o has emotional clarity with this that I wish we never lost as adults. When she is sick or a bit down, She lays down next to me and asks for hot chocolate even in 90'F weather just so she knows she's got me there caring.
We all want this. The measure of progress we've made as well adjusted adults is how we cope with not getting it.
Life shows us often, that we sometimes can't have it. Our parents are gone or they never were the type to give us what we needed (like your w's mother had some big deficits as a mother. I wonder if your w ever got what she needed from her mom. No wonder she was overweight.
I wonder if your w now needs to explore her sexual orientation to make sure that her weight gain/loss isn't a factor there. Her mother probably projected that belief onto her big time, and now your w wonders if there was some validity to it. I get that.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Still no call back from w. I know this is the first week of school for her. She's usually crazy busy for the 1st 3 wks or so. So you know the most likely reasons for her not calling yet. Plus, she may feel fear of conflict the way you fear it (instead of assuming your fears mean she abuses you, accept the possibility that it's simply fear of confrontation or fear of facing a tough tough topic...
I worked with criminally abusive defendants (didn't ask for those cases but once you have a case that goes to appeals and you win, you tend to "attract" more of them. Make sense?) Anyhow, that's why I have a strong reaction to the word "abuse" when you are mainly referring to controlling manipulative behaviors and frankly you describe some of your own...with her. The jealousy of her time could be seen (wrongly I think) as you sabotaging her career. Just an example.
Understood 25, but we can agree to disagree on this. I don't disagree with you in regards to it being controlling, manipulative behaviors. I understand and have compassion for her sh!tty childhood and controlling me due to fear. I just also know that it left me not feeling good enough, feeling ugly. Feeling scared of her. I know I wasn't perfect in our marriage either.
Every year we would have our annual fight during the beginning of school. I would miss spending time with her, and we would fight about it. See how she could view this^^^? IT's just insecurity on both sides. And lacking tools for dealing with that and conflict. She certainly had no role model and learned nothing about conflict resolution or dealing with fear and pain from her mom.
Agree completely. I don't think I learned to either.
I remember last year, I was on a shoot in San Francisco, I was coming home early and she was disappointed. She said it had been nice not having me home so she could focus on school. I was hurt that she wasn't excited to see me. IF this were to happen today in a r, do you think you could see this as the opportunity it was? The opportunity for growth and insight b/c she is giving you valuable info here. Rather than focusing on how you felt disappointed she wasn't welcoming you, can you see the value of HER feelings and do you think today, you'd change your approach to her so she wouldn't feel glad when you are gone?
Yes I do. I realized it when we were still together. I grew extremely jealous of her going to OA all the time. But I put my selfishness aside and sure enough she started spending more time with me and less time in OA. However she then told me that she was using me to run away from the stuff she was facing in OA.
I wish I would have been able to express my feelings clearly. Hindsight is 20/20. Either way, I'm sure she will look at this time as a positive to not being married to me anymore.
Sorry - I know I shouldn't think that way. I shouldn't assume I know why she hasn't gotten back to me. you DO know why. She's busy in school AND she probably has the same fears of calling you that you had when you saw her number. Do you see how you are giving yourself plausible reasons for avoidance, but giving her none?
You are right here. I'm not showing her grace at all. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. I'm just mad that I'm stupidly waiting for her call back. Every day that goes by, I'm like "really.. you couldn't have just taken 5 minutes to call me back". But I'm reminded how long it took me to send my email, to call her back. It's not about her, It's about controlling me. My reactions, my feelings, learning to be patient, learning to have faith. Val, get a grip. You are making this worse than it is and you are trying hard to make her "wrong". Keep reminding yourself of how long it took you to seen the email and call her back and be fairer to her.
Right again. That's what I meant from that ^^^. That I needed to stop thinking about her, think about me and be patient and have faith that she will get back to me when she's ready.
I'm sitting in so many emotions any more. I try not to think about w, but it's there all the time. Not just our m, but trying to deal with my lack of self-worth and the emotional abuse wounds, her not calling you back is NOT "abuse". Geez Val, it's just not.
I didn't mean to say that was abuse. Only that I'm dealing with how she made me feel worthless (and I let it happen). How everything she does now still makes me feel that way.. whether that's her projecting it, or me perceiving it.
If it is, it's no different than how long you took to call her back. And you struggled with that , (was that "abuse"?)
You almost took a much longer time to call her back. Maybe you waited to call til you thought she wasn't going to answer. Maybe that crossed her mind and she thinks you were playing games, "abusing" her...come on Val....
I know. We both have said multiple times to each other that assumptions kill us.. but I don't know what else to do. It's like a vicious cycle that won't end.
no more victimhood for THIS type of thing. IT's sweating the small stuff and I do mean small. So what if she hasn't called you back? Seriously. No biggie. Put it out of your mind and do not characterize it as anything but her not calling you back yet. [/color]
Right again. I am sweating the small stuff. I just don't know what to do with my feelings about her admitting to purposely avoiding me.
dealing with terminally ill family members, dealing with friendships. All seem to connect to m or w some how. that IS a lot to deal with. But they are not all related except you want support from your w and instead you dealing with a pending divorce. The timing stinks.
Right. Yes it does. Urgh. So tough. I know it's good stuff.. I am just expressing my inner 5 year old right now.
very good to recognize this. And not act on it. That's key b/c we all have the little kid in us who wants to get taken care of when we are sick
even if we don't eat Chicken & Stars soup anymore.
I notice my 14 y/o has emotional clarity with this that I wish we never lost as adults. When she is sick or a bit down, She lays down next to me and asks for hot chocolate even in 90'F weather just so she knows she's got me there caring.
We all want this. The measure of progress we've made as well adjusted adults is how we cope with not getting it.
Life shows us often, that we sometimes can't have it. Our parents are gone or they never were the type to give us what we needed (like your w's mother had some big deficits as a mother. I wonder if your w ever got what she needed from her mom. No wonder she was overweight.
I wonder if your w now needs to explore her sexual orientation to make sure that her weight gain/loss isn't a factor there. Her mother probably projected that belief onto her big time, and now your w wonders if there was some validity to it. I get that.
I don't know 25. That would make sense to me. Thanks for pushing me to stop thinking about me. I needed it.
Still think I'm making that awesome progress?
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
For less than 2 months since BOMB you are doing great!!! Keep it up. You're becoming more successful - and even though everyone says this -- it's worth repeating: You are becoming a better YOU and healthier. GOOD WORK!!
Me (f): 45 W(f) 35 T: 13 y C: S4 adopted at birth 6-18-11 bomb: I want to break up 8-28-11 OW confirmed
Val, You are. We all backslide. Who we are, the measure of our character is how we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and move forward after realizing it.
BITS Me 55, ACK, when did that happen? Doesn't feel like 55 D 30 S 27
You create your own universe as you go along - Winston Churchill
I DO think you are making awesome progress (despite the hideous morally deficient flaws that abound... )
and what's more,
you take feedback well! That's a big part of making awesome progress.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
@25 (despite the hideous morally deficient flaws that abound...)
Umm.. English Please?
Thanks for the boost. I use to get really defensive about feedback in general. Good to know my DB skills are working.
@ JS & TM Man. Thank you! You're both right that I have too much on my plate right now. I can't possibly fix everything. In some cases, it can't be fixed.
JS - Such wisdom. I really DO need to think about combining goals, setting actions and all that jazz. Feels like I'm working on everything, therefore acheiving nothing. I plan and execute shoots for a living. I should be able to do it with my own life.
And your opinion about detaching. Dead on.
I cried a bunch today. Just felt pain. But time to get back up and on my horse. I'm not done fighting. My pain is valid, but I refuse to let it cloud who I want to be.. with my w, with myself.
It'll be good to start my new show next week but in the meantime I have alot to think about. Thanks everyone for all the love and kindness said. It has not fallen on deaf ears.
Time to lock up this thread and move to the next.
M(f): 40 D'ed: 8/12
Show empathy when there's pain. Show grace when warranted. Kindness in the midst of anger. Faith in the face of fear.
