After MLC, do they understand their behavior?

[canadianMrs.]

I've been seeing some positive signs from H in the last couple of weeks. He really does look like he is starting to come out of LC. We have had some interesting talks lately, however he does say he doesn't understand why he did some of the things he did. He has answers for some things, just not everyting. Is this just a cop out, or is there some truth to this feeling?

[MynameisMZ]

It's a process canadianMrs. Tell us more. Do you have a thread elsewhere?

[canadianMrs.]

I'm not sure how to link a thread, but its under MLC as "empowerment over, I just had H pack his bags"

Bascically, the last 2 weeks I have seen my old H more and more. He has been over 12 out of 14 days. A couple times he came over when the kids were in school "to borrow something" but would linger and try and get a conversation going. I could feel he wanted to say more or have me say more. He has been more involved with the kids. When I do call/text him about the kids, he respons right away. He has been doing little chores around the house when he is here, without me asking. Friday he came to pick up the kids and we ended up standing in the yard for over an hour talking. He told me that he never had feelings for OW,she was more like a security blanket. He really did think he was working on our M, but realizes now you can't with a 3rd person. He says he is filled with regret and guilt, and he knows the aftermath is not over. (The kids & I are moving to our home town in July). H has to stay for now because of his job, but he has told me 3 times in the last week he is looking to transfer. A few months ago that was never an option with him.
So I'm seeing progress, but he doesn't seem to understand fully why he let is happen, go on as long as it did, the lies, or why he couldn't tell me when I gave him lots of chances. I did get more answers this time, then I ever have though.
Friday night he texted me to tell me he misses me. Last night after talking to the kids he asked to talk to me, and just asked about my day.
I'm so confused. I feel myself getting my guard down. I know I still have to move. To much has happened here, and I've never been happy in this town. I need to go home to get my life back. On the other hand, do I let H back in? Now? Later? Do I say anything or I just continue to see what happens? I've always been the one to do "temperature readings" for our R. H is not a talker and not good at expressing his emotions. I feel the ball should be in his court, but knowing him, he wouldn't know where to start.

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I hope I don't get in trouble for this, but I might put this on my other thread too, as an update.

[Cyrena]

Canadian Mrs,

It sounds as though your H is doing some necessary processing--but still has an extremely long way to go. Continue working on yourself and following through with the changes you have planned, to give him space to do his own work.

If he comes out of the tunnel, you will know it: he will be a changed man, more at peace with himself. He will want to talk to you, however briefly at first. He will have become someone who is no longer comfortable stuffing his emotions and not knowing how to start talking about them. So don't worry about helping him out by taking the ball from his court, etc--that's co-dependent thinking at work.

When he speaks to you, validate him and be friendly--but don't share your own inner process with him at this point. Once he comes out of the tunnel it will be as though he sees you fully again, and really can understand your pain. However, up until that time, he will be so busy processing the mess inside his head that he does not have the energy or attention to be able to empathize with another's pain. Depression draws the mind entirely inward, so that depression has to pass before you start letting your guard down.

[bob48]

The question you asked is do you let him in now, later or not at all.

I think the question I have to ask, is do you want to let him in now, later or not at all?

I am assuming that the OW was the reason you are split up, and that the OW is no longer in the picture. Are you assuming that he is going to find another one down the line?

My bias is to let him back in. One because he obviously cares for you and wants to be with you. Secondly, it will probably be better for the kids. And finally, because you seem to care for him too, and would be happier with him in the house with you.

Obviously, you need to come up with guidelines, and some very specific consequences for cheating that you feel you are willing to stick with. You probably should even come up with something that addresses any kind of internet cheating that is becoming such a fad these days.

But basically, you have to look into your own heart and decide what to do.

[canadianMrs.]

Cyrena & bob. Great advice, thank you. I read what you said and then went for a bike ride to clear my head.

I think I realize I want to keep these little changes going, but I can't make any promises to myself or him as to what it could mean. I'm curious of what trying would do, since we never really had a realn chance before (with OW in picture). I would be willing to work on it, in the future (he has to make the move back to our home town) and he needs to get some C, and we need some MC. I think I know him better than he does, and some of the things from his childhood need to be addressed. His brother has some serious marriage problems too. Some same, some different and he put himself in C and it did help.
I've been working on myself and our marriage, and I need to see something from him...I want a new marriage, not more of the same.
I am worried about the distance once the kids and I move. We'll be 1.5 hours away. It will either make things better or worse, but its a chance I have to take.
Thank you again for your great advice.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

He has answers for some things, just not everyting. Is this just a cop out, or is there some truth to this feeling?

Was true for my wife.

My wife was aslo pretty fragile coming out of her LC...not really at peace or peaceful. Remorseful? Yes.

[canadianMrs.]

Yes, H brought the kids home from the weekend (3 day weekend here in Canada). He did the linger again. At 7 he sought me out to say goodbye. Then the tears began. He cried/broke down for an hour. We are talking tears, shaking etc. I have known him since we were 14 and have never seen him like this. It was mostly about the kids and the every other weekend (although he's always stoppping by) and how it will be when the kids and I move.
Wow.

[25yearsmlc]

my h also did not have answers "for everything" and probably never will. I let go of the belief that we had to see our marital history in identical ways too. We simply don't see things the same way b/c we each look at our lives with our own lens, and there's no way even good marriages look the same to both partners. (Car accident witnesses don't remember things the same way either)

Some things they'll do that hurt you, they may not even recall 5 years later or even a month later, literally. And you will have hurt them and you won't recall it the same way OR at all. So do you keep hammering them on this to make sure you each see every event the same way, or do you let go of the past and try to agree on "now and from this day forward"?

I submit you stay in the now and go forward. He cannot overcome everything in the past.

But I think What you are really asking is what you risk by forgiving. I have been there, done that. It's not an easy question to answer. But ask also, what you risk by not forgiving. And if you don't try again even though he seems ready (if he does) you'll wonder what role your pride and bruised ego had, versus honest analysis on your end. There's a fine line between healthy boundaries and our egos...sometimes it's blurry too.

Deciding to take him back in, if that is what he wants, requires clarity from him, and Is something only you can do.

I can tell you things that I think will harm your chances of success, and you can use them if they're part of you.

Meaning, if you think you'll probably throw this in his face down the road, or that you'll hold it over his head like the sword of Damacles (even if unintentional on your part) then you'll end up with a divorce, or a lousy marriage filled with bitterness.

Can you forgive him?

Do you know how? I didn't know how, b/c I didn't grow up seeing it. I had to learn it and it IS a learned skill, and a process that takes time and practice. I do know that letting go is part of it.

It's not about him deserving forgiveness either. I heard someone say that "If you hold onto your anger to punish someone, it's like lighting yourself on fire to get smoke in their eyes."

You will definitely be a happier woman if you let go of the anger and pain. Try turning it over to God and not taking it back. This does not mean you have to take your h back, b/c letting go of this is for YOU.

But if you do take him back, you do have to let it go or you'll be sabotaging it.

My h does not recall some of the things he said and he certainly does not know all the reasons he did what he did. I believe one reason is b/c he was selfish. He is a hard working man and morphed that hard work into feeling entitled to getting whatever he wanted, (even at the expense of our marriage and family. ) He does not see it this way, even now. But he's an improved h and I am glad we are together.

The way you handle taking him back, if you do, matters, and it will increase or decrease the chances of you guys making it.

HE has to trust that you won't punish him forever, or keep making him "earn the trust" back indefinitely...and you have to trust him and the future enough to try piecing.

I highly recommend that you try Retrovaille,(a marriage retreat that helps troubled couples) if you are open to it.

We found it very helpful. I felt like I could let go of the past without feeling as if I was setting myself up for more pain. And I felt like less of a shrew. He felt a great weight off his shoulders and had more hope for us than before and seemed ready to prove that he could be the man he once was, and he has for the most part. It was only after attending that (as well as a year of piecing) did I feel like we really had a new and improved marriage, as opposed to a wounded marriage just trying to survive. Oh, Retrovaille has a follow up program too, you ought to do b/c like DBing, it works when you work it.

Good luck!

[25yearsmlc]

just saw your additional post...

at Retrovaille my h broke down and cried about the damage he had done and how worried he was that he'd never get the R's back with our kids.

I was very moved. A friend of mine, whom I shared this with, insisted that I rub it in more to h and demand that he fully accept how HE had DONE ALL THIS DESPITE THE WARNINGS and blah blah blah...she was unbelievably unforgiving...I don't see her in the same light to this day.

My h rarely cries. It made a big impact on me. For lack of a better way of saying this, I "needed" to know he "got it". Finally, I knew.

Not saying it's the same for you but you know your h better than anyone else.

Is this unusual for him? If so, take note. He's getting something...