Computer games are are sore point. It's OK for her to watch 4 hours of the Opra network 7pm to 11pm...but god forbid I go play COD or a computer or xbox game for half an hour.
This is the part where someone tells you that you're right, and that's not fair.
HOWEVER . . . the fairness is not the problem. The problem is that you're unhappy in your marriage. You see a problem. She really might not; even if she'd be happier not spending her whole night watching Oprah (much the same way a heroin addict would probably be happier not spending every night flying high) she probably doesn't think so; she may think she needs it.
Your videogames may be your way of connecting with friends, your way of staying out of the heat, your way of killing time, your way of avoiding intimacy with your wife, your way of displacing feelings of anger and resentment . . . .could be all or none of those.
The thing is, if you can't make changes for yourself unless you have a guarantee that your wife is going to reciprocate with a roughly equal change, you're doomed. You'll never be able to make any changes, because remember, her position right now is that your marriage is basically normal and OK--that the major problem the two of you have is YOUR perception that there's something wrong. Yes, she's wrong about that. No, it's not fair. It [censored]. But the way to decide whether to cut back on your gaming is to decide whether YOU would be happier, more fulfilled, more complete doing something else for at least part of that time.
I tried to lose weight to make my wife want me. Didn't work. I lost over 100 pounds, got discouraged when the novelty attraction wore off and she went back to freeze mode (because I hadn't really understood what I was doing) and gained it all back. This time I'm losing weight for my own reasons. I'm going to go skydiving when I get below the maximum weight at my chosen school. I'm going to be comfortable on an airliner at New Year's. I'm going to go back to BJJ and earn my blue belt. And yes, I admit it, I do want to be more attractive to women, but that's women, not just her. If our current renaissance goes sour and I ever conclude that she's just not that into me, if I have to walk away, I'll take my new body with me. I love her, I want her, I'm happy that we're finding so much more intimacy now, but my 180 is for me. If she's more attracted to a guy who did something about getting into shape, great! If she's not, somebody will be.
There is a very real possibility that your wife will, like my wife, sort of wake up and realize that you are finding ways to enjoy life, and that she wants to be part of that. But you can't know before you start. You have to figure out what your 180 needs to be.
Have you read the Sex-Starved Marriage? I forget. I finally got my wife to go to marriage counseling with me (Over three years into this process, counting from when I read SSM, and only after I'd completely given up on that possibility--after she'd been going to an individual therapist for about six months and I was starting to shop for my own.) Last week, at our second session, I mentioned that I'd read The Sex-Starved Marriage. The MC's comment was, "Well, she made a lot of money, all right." I wasn't mad at him, but I did tell him honestly, "Hey, look, I realize you're a professional and you might not love these self-help books, but reading that book let me know that I wasn't alone, it gave me things to try when I was ready to give up, and when she read the first chapter it was like she finally understood what I'd been telling her about my suffering for years. It wasn't marriage counseling, but if I hadn't read it and applied it, I never would have gotten her to come to a marriage counselor. It took over three years as it was."
I was not joking when I said 14 years, 2 months and 14 days.
Last time was April 6, 1997.
But that is my story and just one outcome when a wife says "no." I haven't updated recently and I'll not hijack your thread to update here.
I've read Silly Old Bear's reply to you and have to say I mostly agree. Life isn't fair on this point and if computer games is a sore point, then let that go for the moment.
As to exercise in the heat...well, that's your choice but I walk/hike in all types of weather (I try to avoid thunderstorms and manage to avoid the tornadoes in April when they swept through) but a little heat (heat index at ~105 degrees is about my limit at this time of year) isn't a reason to not get out and do something healthy for yourself.
Although I did not set out to lose the weight, I lost more than 40 pounds through a fairly regular walking/hiking program where I set my own goals. Gave me lots of time to think through stuff.
She wants you to be reasonable and she's giving you all the reasons why you should. In the long0run you'll jave to decide for yourself what path you choose. You apparently have the time to do that.
The Captain
Last sex: 04/06/1997 Last attempt: 11/11/1997 W Issues "No Means No" Declaration: 11/11/1997 W chooses to terminate sex 05/1998 I gained 60, then lost 85 pounds. Start running again (marathons)
I'm not quite saying, let it go if it's a sore point. I'm saying, examine your actions as honestly and objectively as you can and look for things YOU are doing that contribute to your unhappiness. Think about what a day in your life would look like if you were happy. What would that mean in practical terms? What would you actually be doing?
One of the things I thought I would be doing if I were living the good life was working out every morning. So now, I come as close to that as I can. That's just one change. Cutting back on your gaming time might not be that for you . . . but if spending hours per night in front of a computer isn't making you happy, maybe it is. I do guarantee that there's SOMETHING you can do differently than you're doing now. Your wife would have a hard time making you miserable all by yourself.
If this all sounds stupid and I seem like I think I know everything, that's OK. Just keep it all in mind. Either it'll make a sort of sense one day, in which case you can use it, or it never will, in which case, no big loss.
Oh, and yes, heat [censored]. Maybe you could swim, or go cycling? One of the things I love about road cycling is that I'm going 20 mph most of the time and even if it's hot out, I'm in the breeze. It's not just about getting into a shape that looks good or tempts women; it's about feeling good.
Self and relationship discovery abounds(on my part) Wife still her self. Wife has admited to with holding sex as punishment for behavior she deems bad. IE not taking out the trash, or something similar, but refuses to grant sex as a reward. That is messed up in itself. Sadly I am turning into a walk away husband. She has turned us into roomates in effect, and that is how I am treating her. I took the family to the state fair last sunday, all was well. I watched both kids as she worked that saturday, even cleaned the house. I got nary a thanks, other that "it's household duties and she EXPECTED it to be done". My birthday was the prior thursday. No card, no gifts from her or the kids, no sex. We did go out to eat. However it was because she did not want to cook, and felt guilty about trying to make me cook on my birthday. As to GAL....I have been working hard on my auto restoration project as much as time permits. Due to financial constraints I am doing as much small and cheap stuff as possible. The good side is that she is sadly forced to spend a few hours with the kids as I am outside. This is giving her a better understanding of how it can stress her out for the 2 hours I am outside, but yet I have to deal with it for 11+ hours when she works 2 weekends a month. I have time to write this today as she took the kids and went with her mother, sister, and nephew halfway across the state to her grandmothers family reunion. This is a 100% her function. She asked me last night if I was going, I replied, it depends on your actions in the next few hours. She looked puzzled. Well she came to bed over 1hour after I did. almost midnight. So this morning she asked again and I told her No I was not going. I am upset that you can devote so much time to work, the kids schools party last night, and now devote a full day to family you see once a year, who otherwise have NOTHING to do with you, but you can't even give your husband 5 minutes!!
Hi Arkansasguy - I was just reading your thread bc I was a ld wife and I could relate with your w's side of your story. My H became passive aggressive and resentful for a lot of reasons but probably a primary one was unsatisfying sex life. Now he has completely withheld sex now since his vasectomy in February. He's withheld all affection of any kind since the bomb in June.
Anyway, I can second all the reasons others here gave you. W is probably depressed, doesn't feel sexy bc of her weight gain, tired from working. I found a million reasons - something happened during the day that I was resentful about, or we got in an argument right before bed, or the kids would hear, or it was late, birth control issues, or... And then I felt bad too because I knew I was disappointing my H, and that led me to feel even more insecure. Toward the end I started trying on my own to figure out ways to get more comfortable - I tried putting on music so the kids wouldn't hear, but I think that annoyed him. I tried telling him a specific way that I really enjoyed being kissed, and I think he took that as criticism. I say "I think" instead of "I know" because we also had difficulty communicating - it was very hard to talk about intimate things and I think my efforts hurt his self-esteem so that he just shut down.
So I read with interest your side and how you're trying to solve this problem in your marriage. I can tell you that the whining and resentment is 100% unattractive. If my h suggested that he would only be attending a family function depending on "your actions in the next few hours" there is NO WAY I would have been able to respond positively to that. I would have felt threatened, turned off, unloved, and kind of grossed out by the quid pro quo of it.
You also do a lot of comparing and justifying. You seem to think she should not be tired because you're doing as much as she is. You are not her. You don't get to dictate when she's tired or what she's good at handling. Now, you're not going to be able to change her by insisting on change, but you CAN change you and thus change the unhealthy dynamic in your relationship. Try reframing things in your mind. Do the things you do because you can, and because you're good at them, and because you love her. Stop bean counting.
Do you love her? By how you describe her, she sounds completely unattractive. Her behavior as you describe it is petty, mean, unaffectionate, angry and resentful. If you want to be married to her, think of the things you can adore in her right now, and focus on them. Tell her what they are and see if she responds to those words.
Try touch - tell her one day that you absolutely don't want sex that day or the next so she can relax, and try different kinds of touch to see if she responds positively. A hug instead of a kiss goodbye. A touch on the arm. Compliment her hair while you brush it behind her ear. These are just ideas. I can tell you in a marriage where you know you're not satisfying your partner, every single touch - a footrub, hug, or brushing past in the kitchen means he's going to be expecting sex soon - the only way to avoid it is to find busy things to stay up till it's too late or else start an argument (I didn't do these things with intent...it was like I couldn't stop myself). If you have a promise that there won't be any followup demand, perhaps that will create some safe time for you to explore what helps her feel loved.
I can also tell you there are no quick fixes here. You've done something to cause extreme resentment in her...and you know what she's done to cause extreme resentment in you. You have an uphill battle to get over that and you're the only one working on it for now. But on this board you'll find others who have successfully gotten through this, and you'll do well to listen to them.
Do what works and don't do what doesn't. Have you found anything that makes her smile or act a little more warmly toward you?
You should feel proud that you're being so patient and working hard to save your marriage, especially for your kids.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I have a question for LD women who refuse sex and say it's overrated, unnecessary, or unimportant. If sex is so unimportant, would you mind if your husband had a friend with benefits that didn't otherwise threaten your marriage?
Sex is either important or unimportant to you. You can't have it both ways.
IMHO your question is based on faulty assumptions.
1- what lies beneath an LD woman's saying that sex "overrated, unnecessary, or unimportant"? I'll wager they mean it's not provided any pleasure/benefit for them. Or they are being passive aggressive and don't realize it, or can't stop it. Or they have a physical or emotional disorder. Or they don't care that much about staying married. You can't just take those words at face value.
2- "that didn't otherwise threaten your marriage" is something you can't know until after the damage is done. How can you guarantee you won't fall in love with the FWB or that she won't fall in love with you and create a problem for your W? How can you guarantee this won't be hurtful to your W? How can you guarantee that you'll feel good about yourself with this solution?
3- "it's either important or unimportant" is wrong. Even if a W can't bring herself to have sex with her H, it still can be a huge psychological issue, a source of great frustration and conflict, (in your case) a potential cause for your marriage to end. It's only unimportant/unnecessary if both partners agree that it is.
You have spun your problem in your posts in such a way as to lead us to your conclusion. You've tried everything, nothing works, you can't live without sex, and she's not going to provide it. We only know these things based on your interpretations. You seem to be begging this forum for permission to get a FWB instead of a D.
The only opinions that should matter in this very personal decision are yours and your wife's.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Adinva, I think of it as the question I'd like to ask such a woman in order to flush out a more truthful answer. And I agree the answer is probably going to be like the reasons you list.
As for point 2, there are no guarantees in any situation. Any statement is conditional on the present. Even a marriage that is good is not guaranteed to continue that way. Most marriage end in divorce or sustain unfaithfulness, or both. In matters of sex and love, if you need a guarantee, you'll never have either one of them regardless of the situation, be it marriage, FWB, or whatever.
But,yes, generally I agree with you. Which still means that what it boils down to, even if the LD woman doesn't really intend the particular meaning, is that what's important for her is that her husband stay celibate indefinitely. Not that she really wants it that way, but just that any alternative is more unpleasant for her.
In fact, I've even heard of women who refuse to have sex with their husbands, yet also insist that he not masturbate. So, yes, some LD women are living in total fantasy land.
As for this forum giving me permission, LOL. That's a good one. Guilt, moral approval, etc., are the least of my issues.
Here's the thing, SSM guy. I think asking the question you're asking is passive, if not passive aggressive. You're asking a question when what you should be doing is stating your position. If I were you, I would sit down with W, express my unwavering love and affection, admit that I haven't always if ever found the right way to communicate with her about sex, and then lay it down: I cannot live celibate and much as I love you I want to separate now and begin getting a divorce. I respect you enough to believe what you have said, that you will not change. However, I wish things were different and I'm willing to try anything while we're separated to turn this around. But I need you to know that I'm really serious - this is a need that I have and I need a partner who sees meeting that need as an act of love.
No whining, dealing, complaining. Express your reality and act on it. As you say, you've done everything else you can think of.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
