From your wife's point of view, you were sending mixed signals. As we all know..that's disorienting and confusing and feels like limbo. I bet she doesn't like feeling that way, anymore than the rest of us!
From what I read, your talk really clarified things for both of you and helped her feel more secure.
But I think the others are right too...you now have some guidelines about when and how much of an OR talk to have.
Quoting KAW:Seriously, J, I know you have gotten plenty of forewarning about the pressures of OR talks (myself included) , but you seem to have striked upon the right formula of when & how much ... and it has worked for you!! So long as it works, keep doing it.
Yeah, I suppose. You know how after being guarded for so long it's difficult to kind of let go and trust having a decent OR conversation again? I guess I should just keep doing what I'm doing in that regard as it doesn't seem to be a burden for my W.
Quoting Abby:What is it exactly that she is going to do to earn your love back? To me you cant quantify love. Is your love w/her unconditional or conditional?
This really isnt about her earning your love but more about you leaving the past in the past and forgiving her.
Abby, I HAVE lost some love for her. And, in a way, it is measurable. You read "Love Languages" right? I have received very few "love" credits over the years...very few. I've given so much (more than 60%) to this R for many years. Her response to that was to pay me back by having an A. This removed yet more of those credits I've received few of. I don't have these huge expectations, but I do have some expectations. I'm tired of putting all of the effort into having a mediocre R...and this is something that will have to change. I need to see "real" effort from her. I'm getting a little of this, but not enough. I'm still covering well over my appointed 50%.
Quoting Abby:She is probably afraid to put too much on the line if you are going to say it is not enough for you.
I'm afraid too, Abby. But frankly, she needs to really go out on a limb if she wants to fix this thing. Also, I don't tell her that what she's doing is not enough. I don't complain to her about what I vent about here. I do tell her, however, that it would be nice if I had more of this or that. Sometimes she complies. Problem is, there just doesn't seem to be too much of a drive to do certain things for me that would really make me happy. She's trying...but it's not enough for this R to last. I'm simply hoping that over time it will get better...so far it has...
If I see that she's really nurturing our R, I know I can forgive. Thanks for being candid, Abby. I appreciate it. You can always do that with me.
Quoting PNT:From your wife's point of view, you were sending mixed signals. As we all know..that's disorienting and confusing and feels like limbo. I bet she doesn't like feeling that way, anymore than the rest of us!
Yes, it kind of opened my eyes to the confusion I was likely propagating. Now I know I can really ask for what I feel I need and I think she'll listen attentively. Whether she does anything about it, well...that's another story...
been trying to keep up with you...but lately haven't had any words for you because I have been in my own mood..
stepping out of it a bit..
I understand all your feelings..that you know..but something keeps comming up for you that is going to be tough..
you cannot wait for w to start doing what ever it is you want her to do to show you she's commited to forgive her..because she may just be waiting for you to forgive her to start doing those things...don't fall into the why should I be the one to change bit.
allow yourself to forgive her...she will then have to forgive herself...
I hope I make some sense.
off to make lunch but I'll be back to check in again.
Quote: been trying to keep up with you...but lately haven't had any words for you because I have been in my own mood.
I know... It's okay. Sometimes I wonder if I just sound like I'm complaining or something because I know to everyone my sitch is so hopeful...
Quote: you cannot wait for w to start doing what ever it is you want her to do to show you she's commited to forgive her..because she may just be waiting for you to forgive her to start doing those things...don't fall into the why should I be the one to change bit.
allow yourself to forgive her...she will then have to forgive herself...
Hmmm...are we talking about who's going to make the first move here? LL, I just don't feel like I can forgive right now. I mean, I'm getting over it, but to actually tell her that I forgive her? Those will be incredibly difficult words for me to say...especially if I'm not sure that I feel it. I agree it's kind of a grudge thing, but what to do???
I noticed that you've been a little stuck on this yourself...hence your last couple of posts. I will say, however, that on a couple of occasions my W is upset that I don't seem to "forgive" her yet...or maybe that her A still pains me frequently. I don't know if it will take me forgiving her first before she forgives herself and only then will she be able to move forward; or that she needs to simply work at our R like I've done for many years before any of that can happen.
Thing is, LL, she doesn't seem all that guilty. I mean, she's guilty, don't get me wrong. But it's like I posted a couple days ago, she doesn't show ALL that much remorse for her actions. I guess my expectations of what I think she should do are not helping in that regard. She did say the other night, "I'm sorry to put you though all of this. I would take it back if I could." I guess it's the matter of depth from which these words come. She's kind of a tough cookie, so I don't know... I guess I'm getting hung up on the semantics...
take some time to consider...if you did something intentionally or not that realy hurt w..she then came to know of it...you feel bad..for her...you feel bad for the way you feel...but are you going to be sad about it...
in a way I think at times they don't want to show their remorse over what they have done...simply because that is their pain..and at times they may feel they deserve the pain for what they have done...how could they expect you to comfort or understand their pain...and so they don't show it...thus we don't see them being remorseful (ya'd never know I have a bs the way I spell)
does that make any sense???
of course things would be better for us if they would show us that they are in pain..but just as it doesn't help them to see our pain...they would assume it to not help us to see theirs.
it just becomes one big ole mess!!!
does any of that help you toward forgiving...understanding that though it is not always obvious to you...you are both in pain??
jethro, i understand how you feel. you know i am totally struggling with forgiveness and feeling less in love with my h.
it is hard because my h feels badly that he caused me pain and he didn't live up to his own expectations. he feels remorse for shock and pain it caused and all the other outcomes that happened that he never considered. however, he enjoyed the affairs, he said they were exciting, and they made him feel powerful. until the reality set in and the ow turned out to be a psycho. he had some fun, did some fun things, had exciting sex, etc...hard for me to forgive somethings about this. the worst is knowing my secrets were sahred. you and others here have helped me see that my h is on pain about this, and i think your w is too.
maybe my self-rightousness is getting in my way as i have a hard time believing my h's pain can compare in any way to waht i have been through. but maybe that doesn't even matter. we just have to accept what happened and make a choice to start trying to forgive. i think we are doing that or we wouldn't be here, right???
it is still early in this for you, and you are doing so well. you really are. my h and i have been piecing for almost a year now. and i am still struggling with my pain, hurt feelings and forgiveness.
When my husband cheated on me with his girlfriend (a year before we got married)...the same one who didn't stop calling even after we had gotten married, I was devastated.
He didn't tell me until we had been married a year, because he knew I wouldn't have married him if I had known.
In my desparation to end the pain, I searched for ways to make him pay. The problem was, no matter what I suggested, it was never enough.
I started DBing after he and I separated. And to stop myself from going crazy thinking that he'd call her while we were separated, (even though it's been 4 or 5 years since she's harrassed us,) I did the stop sign technique. It got to the point where I was able to let it go.
I think the fact that I wasn't able to let it go for so long is part of the reason why we are separated today.
You are still raw. You want the pain to go away. She probably just wants to forget about the whole thing.
The thing that helped me the most was to not dwell on it.
Just a big can of worms.
Keep your goals in mind.
I've heard several times that we will most likely never ever get an apology from our Spouse. That they acted the best way they could in the circumstances. They were blinded by the hurting and tried to get the pain to go away. Unfortunately, they caused more hurt.
What are you doing when the pain of the affair isn't so raw?
Just throwing stuff out there...I hope something I said helps!
I would like some help on my post in the midlife section. I am looking for things that work especially when you are separated. I am going to read up on as much of yours and some of the others on this thread and post something later.
It's okay. Sometimes I wonder if I just sound like I'm complaining or something because I know to everyone my sitch is so hopeful... 
