Quoting jethro: Are we forever going to remain overly conscious about what "might" happen again in our situations? Will this "pressure" to DB ever diminish you think? I'm simply hoping it will become second nature and that I won't directly focus on it so much anymore.
Well I don't have the answers myself as of yet, but in order to avoid falling back into patterns of what doesn't work, we have to maintain a higher level of awareness and yet be at ease with it. It seems to be a delicate balance we need to find. Can this become second nature? It would be nice, but something tells me it won't become quite that easy.
Quoting jethro: ... but like I said, I'm just tired...
I hear ya ... this is why it becomes important to put the focus on the awareness of what can you do to make today a better day? Remember the answer does not always have to relate to M or R, but maybe just about Jethro?
It might be as simple as maybe sleeping in one morning or taking a solo drive. Remember to keep doing things for yourself in order to recharge your PMA. (Now to follow my own advise!!)
Quoting Floyd:How did your W respond to your honest answer about still being there if it wasnt for the kids?
She actually didn't say anything much. My DD was nearby, so we had to be careful about what we were saying. She simply said, "That's what I thought." She wouldn't give anything more than that...was kind of quiet about the whole thing...even though she asked the question. I asked her why she asked and didn't get a response. I think she might be testing how I'm feeling about her in general. I believe she wants to know that I still love her. I'm hoping this is because she is feeling more love for me these days and wants it reciprocated...
Quoting Will:Hey Jethro, thanks for the post my friend... I appreciate it...
If you would be so kind, go hit Mat's thread... He is in hopefulness, I think you will find it interesting...
No prob on the post, Will. I reviewed Mat's thread and found it quite interesting...
Quoting KAW:Well I don't have the answers myself as of yet, but in order to avoid falling back into patterns of what doesn't work, we have to maintain a higher level of awareness and yet be at ease with it. It seems to be a delicate balance we need to find. Can this become second nature? It would be nice, but something tells me it won't become quite that easy.
I suppose you're right, KAW. Marriage is work and there's no way around it. I guess the work is just easier when one's spouse is also working on it. Also, maybe you're right about recharging my PMA. It hasn't been too good lately. I think I need some good Jethro time.
Sorry you are hitting a rough patch. Do you really feel you love her less b/c of the A or is it that you have lost some trust and security that is attached to the love?
I understand you feeling tired. Take a break. Everyone needs a break - that is why most employeers give vacations. You come back refreshed w/new perspectives. Taking a break doesnt mean being the old you. It just means you arent focusing on the R and the M for a while.
Your W is still there and is working too. Huge plus. Everything takes time. It took you time to get in the mess and it will take time to work your way out of it. Patience.
I have a sneaking suspicion that DBing is a way of life. I can imagine, in the future, if I'm feeling insecure and I ask my husband how he's feeling, that even if he's feeling good, he'll feel pressure from my question.
We've all seen that relationships take constant effort. Some more so than others. But I've come to the conclusion that I need to make sure that I treat my family better than I treat strangers. And as difficult as it is for me, that includes staying respectful and treating them with curtesy. Because I've noticed that strangers ultimately won't care how I feel, but my family will harbor hurt feelings and resentments if I have an off day. Does this make sense?
I suspect, for me...that on the days that I feel insecure with my relationships, that the best thing I can do is to journal it and act as if with my friend.
I'd like to believe that the relationships that I value will get to the point where they are sailing along without any hard work...but I'm afraid that attitude is why I'm here now.
Thanks Abby and PNT. Well, I was rather blunt last night with my W. My conversation with her fits in fairly well with your comments/questions...
Quoting Abby:Sorry you are hitting a rough patch. Do you really feel you love her less b/c of the A or is it that you have lost some trust and security that is attached to the love?
Abby, yes, I think I do love her less, and she has to earn it back. I've worked very hard for about 1.5 years (not as long as some). Maybe, because of ignorance, I wasn't working on the "right" things, but nonetheless, the effort was there. That's why I'm tired. Tired of worrying about what she's thinking. Tired about having to "act as if" all the time...even when I'm feeling like crap. Tired of feeling guarded and not "saying too much." Tired of psychoanalyzing every aspect of our conversations.
Quoting Abby:Taking a break doesnt mean being the old you. It just means you arent focusing on the R and the M for a while.
Your W is still there and is working too. Huge plus. Everything takes time. It took you time to get in the mess and it will take time to work your way out of it. Patience.
I agree, Abby, and I know I have to have patience. Thing is, I've been on this road for a while...
Quoting PNT:I have a sneaking suspicion that DBing is a way of life. I can imagine, in the future, if I'm feeling insecure and I ask my husband how he's feeling, that even if he's feeling good, he'll feel pressure from my question.
PNT, I agree that DBing is a way of life; however, when we've gone though this junk it is simply understandable that we would be insecure when our Ses come back. Heck, they are! I think, over time, the insecurity will diminish, but nonetheless, when making a fresh start after going through all of this junk, I think it's reasonable to expect some reassurances.
This is a good segway to my next post... Thanks ladies!
My previous post leads me quite well into the conversation I had last night with the W...
So, my W and I were working on a puzzle together last night and listening to some music. It was nice, not much conversation, but we were doing something together. However, I was not feeling quite right, per my posts. I decided to go out on a limb and came right out and said, "I'm not feeling very secure right now, and feel sad." Well, I kind of surprised my W with the comment, but she was cool.
I told her that I didn't really know how she felt because she doesn't really tell me much and that I need some reassurances if things are fine (you know verbal love language stuff). Got into the fact that I don't hear ILYs, but that she dishes that out to everyone else.
It took her some time to actually get the information out of me because I was trying to be very careful about what I was saying. She had numerous things to say. She said: - "I'm confused because you say on the one hand that you need reassurances from me about our R, but you also say that you're not sure you'll be able to get through this." (I said I have both feelings, but that I am thinking less and less about the A) - "Sometimes you seem to want to talk about things, then you say we shouldn't." (My response was that there was a time that I didn't think she could hear what I had to say) (*note to self: Jethro's been sending mixed, confusing signals to W) - "Much of what it says in your books about these wives having a wall up is similar to our situation, and that it's very likely I have had those "in love" feelings for you, but just forgot." (if you remember, she claimed she never really loved me...another WAW trait) - "I do love you." - "I'm happy where I am right now." - "Things are getting better."
One thing I realized last night was that my W is now at a point where she can talk about this stuff. Up until last night I didn't really think so, but now I'm fairly comfortable with it. I do think she'd get weird on me if I dug into the A too much, but simply talking about the aftermath of the A and working on our R she's pretty open about.
Is this good DBing? Probably not. I don't like showing that I'm insecure. Naturally, self confidence is more attractive; however, I don't think it's unreasonable to express these feelings if I'm having them...just as long as it's not all of the time. What do you guys think? Did I go a bit overboard? I'm just tired of the "not saying and showing" stuff and wanted to be blunt.
Quoting jethro: Is this good DBing? Probably not. I don't like showing that I'm insecure. Naturally, self confidence is more attractive; however, I don't think it's unreasonable to express these feelings if I'm having them...just as long as it's not all of the time.
Opening up the lines of communication that bring you closer together is not good DBing? O' contraire!
Seriously, J, I know you have gotten plenty of forewarning about the pressures of OR talks (myself included) , but you seem to have striked upon the right formula of when & how much ... and it has worked for you!! So long as it works, keep doing it. In this regards, I believe you have surpassed me. When my W senses my insecurities, it seems to trigger hers which is not good.
Its about keeping the positive changes going. Talking to each other about how you feel works for you to keep that momentum going. It has allowed her to see you are working through your issues and for you to see that she is doing the same. That in of itself has to be a reassurance?
I have thought about this all day and I have something thoughts I want to share w/you.
Quote: she has to earn it back.
What is it exactly that she is going to do to earn your love back? To me you cant quantify love. Is your love w/her unconditional or conditional? To show you your W's point of view, she may feel that she cant do enough to make up for the past.
This really isnt about her earning your love but more about you leaving the past in the past and forgiving her. You have to let it go. If you dont she isnt going to keep trying b/c what would the point be? She can never do right.
Quote: Tired of worrying about what she's thinking. Tired about having to "act as if" all the time...even when I'm feeling like crap. Tired of feeling guarded and not "saying too much." Tired of psychoanalyzing every aspect of our conversations
I kind of getting the feeling you are tired of having to carry more than your fair share of the R work. You know most R's are not fair. You may always do 60% of the R work. What you need to put out there is what you want from your R. What is it that you want her to do for you in the R?
I am sure she is thinking what more can I do to show him that I am here to stay. I have called the OM and told him No More. I have told him I want to be here and work on the M. I am still here. She is probably afraid to put too much on the line if you are going to say it is not enough for you. In the end you both end up feeling tired, angry and frustrated.
I dont mean to come down hard on you. I do want you to look inside and be honest.
Also, maybe you're right about recharging my PMA. It hasn't been too good lately. I think I need some good Jethro time.
