I grew because we all were helping each other and learning how to DB…not having some one spoon feed us and burping us on advice.
I wonder, if us ‘old wise’ ones aren’t hurting you guys. By doing just that.
Originally Posted By: HeartsBlessing
Although, I laughed at that comment, I respectfully agree to disagree, Jack and I'll tell you why; someone always NEEDS to be here to help lead the way, IMHO.
Many people need to be here leading the ways…there are many ways. It is not about having a specific leader. Sometimes I stood at the head and marched forward. But then I stumbled with confusion, anger, frustration or even a sorry-for-myself sob and someone else was there to take my hand, give me a hug and guide me, someone I had been leading moments before.
Being a leader without having a leader within the other followers is a lot of pressure. Often people rest their hope on the leader…hope for their own situation with advice from a leader, but sometimes the groups hopes come to rest in the leader’s situation…rising and falling with the rollercoaster in which the leader rides—not driving it. Consider if now, Jack’s wife or BND’s husband began cycling heavily once again. What if Happy_Again went back to being Finally_Free? The pressure to hold everyone else up is too much. Leaders need leading and help leading. We are all followers, leaders and side-by-side hand-holders. Db’ing is a mutual effort.
Some posters seem wise on their first day here, as though they already have this amazing insight. I can think of only a few, but they were helpful because since they were in the throes of the crisis, they taught that wisdom, confusion and stumbling are not mutually exclusive.
Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
I am seeing less of the company of peers supporting each other, and I am seeing more edicts from on high. I fall into that catagory.
I don’t read as often as I once did, but Jack, it never seemed to me that you flew so high as to melt waxen wings; you always brought yourself down with comments admitting you were ‘falling’ into that high category. I won’t accuse you of hubris.
Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
I see more new people asking the 'success' stories directly for help, and if you haven't figured it out yet : ) that burns me a bit. It is dismissive of others who have put in hard time here been knocked around and are awesome people, who take the time to post to help...and to be willing able and capable of doing that, but to be overlooked by some noob's whacked concept of 'success'?
I understand it. I understand the neediness of it. What they don't understand is the feeling of being looked over.
You also do not understand that there is a certain ammount of pressure in being called out by name. You say, Jack or BND, or Pilot or Snodderly or HB look at this...
To each person, what if one of your favorite DBers began to post under a different account. The new-old DBer could dispense advice, but posters would pay less attention and give it less credibility without knowing the background of either situation or advice history.
What if Braveheart started a new account and immediately started controversial discussion topics, offending posters with his challenges? Some may presently be offended, but many are tolerant and even enthusiastic with Braveheart as they know him now because he has established an identity, thereby ‘earning the right’ to speak his mind a little more than someone who is as yet an unknown entity.
Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
I meant boundaries with the OP.
Specifically?
"Me or him!"
Thats a no brainer to see how that will turn out.
Yes to boundaries in so much as "You will not sleep* with him in my bed while I'm in the smae room/house."
But a boundary with "Do not see him or I will walk away..."
Okay, I get it now. But isn’t that saying “No ultimatums” rather than no boundaries?
Originally Posted By: Bworl
I learned here, in some cases from some of you, that there is little that you can do initially to help your situation...but there is LOTS you can do to do it further damage. That's what worries me about over there right now. Person after person is arriving shell-shocked and being told a) that their spouse is probably having an affair, and b) that they should tell them to stop the affair or get out.
All that kind of advice does is place both the burden and the focus on the wandering spouse.
I visited marriage builders a few years ago. I posted for only about a week. They were all about exposing the affair. Their reasonings have merit, but the posters themselves were confrontational…with the other posters who disagreed or did not follow their ‘holy advice.’ They acknowledged no exceptions and scoffed at me when I discussed MLC…and I’d already spent a few years over here on this board.
Different forums have different approaches, some of which are considered hard-and-fast rules. No Contact is a biggie in a few, but detachment is neglected…??? This DB-MLC forum is the forum that I found was most supportive to standing.
Originally Posted By: sofaraway
It's great to have experience around to support those beginning their journeys here, but there is a huge difference between being supportive and being addicted to the "high" of posting to people. Thats what God created a Psych degree for.
But maybe Jack and BND have found a calling in being here. MyTurnNow (MTN) posted awhile back (around the holidays?); she is now a professional coach I think. For a few this may become their passion.
Originally Posted By: HeartsBlessing
For your information, it was ALWAYS my habit before NOT to read other people's answers before I posted my own. Not that I think mine are better, but it was for good reason. I learned this a long time ago..it is all a part of being an INDIVIDUAL. Reading another's answers before answering with your own view, can have the tendency to "color" your perception, instead of really looking within for your OWN INDIVIDUAL answer; which may something different, but no less important than another's.
I do a bit of both. Sometimes I read a thread and post, other times I need to get my thoughts out without clouding my view. Both are valid…
Originally Posted By: Jack_Three_Beans
I grew because we all were helping each other and learning how to DB…not having some one spoon feed us and burping us on advice.
Originally Posted By: HeartsBlessing
I didn't know that requirement of coming back for awhile to help meant that I was supposed to be toting a diaper bag plus bottles and baby food! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!
Originally Posted By: Cat04
HB,
While you said not to be offended, THIS was a truly callous and rude comment. Offensive to every single person on these boards. People are at all different stages here and if you really FEEL this way, maybe you should reconsider spending time here…
I thought this was odd…I read Cat’s comment and though, Oh wow, she’s right that does sound rude, how odd. SO I went back to HB’s post where I realized she was referring to something from Jack’s post…I must’ve missed it, so I reread Jack’s post. Then I got it. Had HB made the comment in the absence of Jack’s post, yeah it would seem rude, but given the earlier post I think we can follow it to its source. But HB, you admit to not always reading all posts, maybe Cat04 didn’t read all of Jack’s or she unintentionally missed or forgot about the portion you were referencing.
Originally Posted By: HeartsBlessing
I seem to have stumbled onto someone's territory, people think they are being "threatened"; that's ALSO the feeling I've gotten.... but the last time I checked Michelle owns this board, not any of you.
There are so many meanings there.
Originally Posted By: sofaraway
(plus I am most likely banned...again...after that schpeel)
And again…lather, rinse, repeat
Oh well…it’s been nice.
Seriously, this place has gone through storms. But you know what doesn’t change…? NEWBIES People keep coming here for help. They read DR or DB or find a link and come here desperate for help. In the past posters have discussed going dark on the board and leaving when the rules change, but DB holds the newbies hostoage—kidding--but newbies will continue to come in and they need someone to greet them. Even if you cannot offer advice, support and hugs are still the best to help the quaking and the tears. This is the reason so many stick around.
Originally Posted By: sofaraway It's great to have experience around to support those beginning their journeys here, but there is a huge difference between being supportive and being addicted to the "high" of posting to people. Thats what God created a Psych degree for. But maybe Jack and BND have found a calling in being here. MyTurnNow (MTN) posted awhile back (around the holidays?); she is now a professional coach I think. For a few this may become their passion.
If that is the case then when they answer the questions I wrote about how others would feel about how much they post, their conscious will be clear. But......
People have jobs, people have families, and people could be doing more with their time....
I finally asked myself the question that needed to be asked... If my boss, my kids, my girlfriend, or my friends knew how much time I spent on it would they approve.... Nope....
Thought I answered...
guess that one was directed at me (others) too.
Boss? No. I did discover something however, at dinner with my former boss and IT guru...They let me have Divorce Busting. Face book gone, any game site or social network. He actually allowed it through, and the impression I got from talking with him was that come from on high.
Kids, wife? If I lost my job they'd be upset. My wife actually knows I come here. Thinks it is good now...at first she was jealous that I had a support group while she never did for her MLC.
Friends? ...hell some of my friends here have 'met' my real life friends. Killed each other and zombies together.
My job is such that I can post from it. My style is short. Similar to firing off an email to coworker about plans later. Or my wife.
When I am home? I seldom post here. I spend enough time at work in front of a computer.
Thank you for worrying about my conscious...its pretty clear though.
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
Not checking your concious Jeff.. Thats yoru job. I am pointing out that this place becomes addictive and people spend too much time here sometimes.
If I am running a company and paying you, your not on a divorce website.... but thats me.
Do you remember how gaming impacted your marriage in the first place?
I don't care how much anyone posts on these boards, I could give a crap. What my point is which I knew would be overlooked by people who believe it is all about them is that when people, in particular old timers are here out of habit and because of the rush, it isnt helping anyone.
This site is about helping people, helping them either save their marriage or themselves, one or the other. Once that occurs many have a hard time letting go.
Lets take you Jeff since you feel like talking to me. What do you get out of this board now? How does it help you in your marriage today? Do you still need it? Your friends kill zombies with your outside the boards friends, great, thats what Facebook is for.
It is so simple to come on here and get admired for the time that we have been around. But, is it admirable? Who the fuckkk knows.
No MLC is the same, some of the syptoms are, some of the behaviors, but other then that it is not cookie cutter. The advice that is given by a guy or gal who has posted for 5 years looks extremely similar to a guy or gal who has posted for 1.
It is not about time, it is about education on the subject and understanding. Passion about helping people is not about staying on these boards 1000ships, the person passionate about that pursues their degree in psychology or psychiatry and opens a practice or volunteers at a center.
My point Jeff, and please stop taking this personally, is that I wanted to answer your question. You asked if old timers are sometimes not helping. My opinion is yes. My reasons have been stated.
I owe a ton to these boards, they saved me. I also respect them enough to know that in the eye of the storm the best practice is honesty. Some marriages can be saved, some can not. Some spouses suffer from MLC, some are just fuckktards. Spent all the time you want trying to figure out which one you dealing with and I will tell you you just wasted a shittload of time.
Fix you, address your mistakes and behaviors that damaged your marriage. Then see what happens. If you didnt spoend enough time at home, spend more time at home.
If you had intimacy issues, see a shrink and deal with them.
If you were a shitty father, take some classes and learn to be a better parent.
If you spent all your time gaming instead of with your wife and kids, quit gaming.
It's just that fuckking simple folks. In order to save your marriage you have to save yourself first. Then, they may come back or they may tell you to piss off. Doesnt matter at that point because you have probably figured out what you want and most likely it aint them anymore.
So now, I leave you with this. If you really take a look at your spouses, yep I am talking to all of you who are sitting there wondering if I am... Do they deserve you? Can you be happy with them again? Are you fighting for something you truly believe can be great? Are you looking at your spouse or ex-spouse and thinking They make you sick and what the hell are you fighting for? These are the questions you need to answer honestly, not to us, to yourself and then walk the right line. Simple enough.....
Look, one thing I've found in my journey of the last 4 years is that trying to apply your personal convictions about a matter to a wide swath of people is a prescription for trouble.
We're all unique. All in unique places, with unique histories full of unique experiences. All that we've been through has helped to shape us into who we are today, for good or bad.
Blanket statements are rarely accurate. In the end it will always be the case that a personal choice has to be made.
My particular marriage crisis is over and has been for the better part of three years. But my life is NOT over, and my life still has issues, some of them rather large and significant ones.
So maybe I'm done with db'ing right now. I still have a new marriage, a blended family at that, and a new life that I'm embarking on with a new person.
This sight helped me to save my life, and I'm not trying in any way to be melodramatic. If I had not found this sight back when all the shite was hitting the fan, I don't know how I would have made it through the days from hell. Just having other people to turn to made all the difference in the world on some days.
Now I don't need advice on how to deal with an MLC spouse anymore, but I would like to think that I can still come here, find a familiar face or two, and know that they care about the new issues in my life.
I don't get off on posting here as an "experienced" person. And posting on this board no longer consumes my days as it once did. But if my experiences can help make one persons day even a little bit easier, if sharing things that worked and didn't work for me maybe helps a confused person reach a decision....well, I think that's a wonderful thing.
Retired Presidents are still consulted on critical issues. Retired CEO's are still asked for their advice on business matters. Old teachers are still used to provide direction for the new group of teachers.
What the hell else is experience for if not to use it for the good of others?
I say, if you don't want to post, don't post.
I also say, if you don't want to post, don't piss on the parade of those who still like to think there is value in their posting.
Be who you are.
You can't be anyone else anyway.
Blessings,
Bill
Last edited by Bworl; 03/11/1001:03 AM.
"Don't tell me the sky is the limit when there are footprints on the moon."
Ok so after being attacked the other day I had sworn off the thought of ever posting here again, but after all that has been written here I want to have my say.
I was on these boards for a longtime (under a different name)until my divorce. I remember HB. She was leaving as I showed up. Say what you will but what I do remember about her was that she was always kind and patient. It saddens me to see this board and some of the "oldtimers" on it fighting for somekind of pecking ordet. Ian is so right. This board was and can be a lifesaver, but carrying on like this serves no good.
When I came on the other day and posted on BND's thread asking, "what purpose did making fun of her husband have to do with anything at this stage of the game", I knew that I was risking the wrath of BND. I had seen it directed many times to people who didn't agree with her way of thinking. As is her mo she came on and talked down to me as if I were an idiot with no sense of humor. As if this wasn't enough, I was also reemed by many of her "friends" all for not finding her charming and funny. I thought her marriage was now going well, but I also know that happy people, truly happy people, don't need to knock others down to make themselves feel superior. We can always fool others but we have to live with the truth, so it doesn't matter why I think she posted that or why she is threatened by HB. She knows the truth and why posting that felt good to her.
People have lots of reasons for resurfacing. I myself have been through the whole deal and have come out the otherside. Life is good, social life and worklife are great, I had truly moved on. Suddenly my ex decides to awakens from whatever and have an epiphany. Truly I never thought this would happen. After much soul searching I know in my heart that I don't want him back. I feel that I've done a lot of growing and soul searching. In short, I am a far different person then I was when he left. I came back here to remind myself all that I had gone through to make a life and to get back to my "Happy" place.
Ian made so many good points. Some people need the attention and adoration that newby's so willing give for some insight that can help. We all know how desperate we are for any help when we first land here. I really question the motives of posters who are back together with their spouse but still have a need to be here. WHY? Shouldn't their energy be going into the relationship and rebuilding of their marriage? At least HB has admitted that she has some new issues, so why the attacks? Could it be that some of us feel as if she's stealing the thunder?
Oh and sorry J3B, your answer to Ian's questions are just plain lame.
