strange evolution of WAW

[futureunknown]

Hi Sam-

I've followed your sitch, and it does seem like there are a lot of simililarities!

You know one small change I've noticed is my W and I call each other by NAME now. When things were very tense between us, we would almost never address each other by name, only when we had to, like getting attention from across the room. Now I notice us using each other's names all the time, in a nice way, like at the start of a sentence. I never appreciated how much affection there is just in using someone's name.

Another small change is the casual physical contact. When we went to the festival last weekend, my W would occasionally touch me, on the back, on the arm, on the shoulder, on the hand, etc. Just little innocent and quick touches, but very affectionate. So far I've been letting her lead. The last close conversation we had about a month ago ended with me initiating several kisses, which were tentatively accepted. Afterwards I felt I was much too forward, so I've completely held back ever since. I'm taking her touches as a signal that she actually liked the kisses, but I'm playing it cool to present a bit of challenge.

Sam, have you noticed similar things?

[futureunknown]

I can see how frustrating this all must be for you.

Wow, so true! I'm trying to maintain a decent level of detachment to preserve my sanity, but it's very hard when the stakes are so high.

Thank you for the support you offer here.

[Sam1007]

future,

I've noticed that my W sometimes gets so much into a convo we might be having and touches my arm. It's happened a couple of times lately. I have not initiated or received any kisses in about 3 months. In your case, I would completely pull back as far as that's concerned.
The changes in my sitch came about after I told her that if she's sure she wants a D, then go ahead and do the paperwork, then I took my ring off and started talking about splitting the last few bills that we still share. I think I will actually split the first one in the next few days. After that, I started following the "stay distant, but show her a good time when we're together" course. I do not organize anything for us to do together, but she's initiated something last weekend. I just told her that I am taking them to an amusement park next weekend and if she asks if she can come, I think I will let her, but I am not going to propose it.

[futureunknown]

I think I'm at the end of my rope. Reading other situations, particularly AFWAW's, makes me think it's time for me to move on. There will be no reconciliation any time soon. I've got to concentrate on my life. I've been here before, and don't you know it, when my W got the vibe that I was going away, she started pursuing me, and we took a step toward each other. I should have held firm much longer. I've got to embrace the reality that she needs to move substantially from where she is for her to be an adequate partner for me. She's not going to move while she's getting so much of my attention and emotional support. The question is what she'll do if she stops getting it.

Yesterday we had to go talk with the principal about my daughter's class situation. We had reservations about the teacher they selected for her, and we were going to have to be united and resolute to convery our concerns. My W arrived after I did, and she wanted to discuss our strategy before we went in. We came to agreement on what we'd say. While we were talking to the office assistant, my W was unconciously wrapping and unwrapping her purse strap around her keys in her hand. Although she had her game face on, her hands showed me how nervous she was. I reached over, took her hand, and pulled it away from her other hand. She looked at me and I gave her a reassuring look. She said thanks and her hands calmed down. I saw she was scared, and I offered some of my strength to her. I don't know how much more loving I can be than that.

We went in to say our peace, and I took the lead. We made our points, the principal heard our concerns and said she'd see what she could do. Afterwards, we walked out into the parking lot. We had an awkward moment where I could tell she was trying to figure out how to say goodbye. I made a move to walk away, and she said "I'm glad we can still be a team." I just said "Yeah" and I walked away, and didn't look back. I was on the verge of tears. I can't continue like this, so at that moment I decided it was time for me to let go and move on.

[futureunknown]

I really could use the opinions and support of folks here. My kids' first day of school was yesterday. I had them at my house, so I was responsible for getting them all ready.

Part of the situation I'm dealing with is that my W is having an A with a man in another country. She just went to visit him again last month after we had taken a step toward each other. Was another punch in the gut for me. I didn't know it, but she bought a t-shirt with the name of the country on it for our son. When I'm getting the kids clothes ready for school, my son says he brought a shirt from mommy's house to wear on his first day. I got it out of his backpack, and sure enough, it was the shirt she got him. I reacted poorly, I just couldn't take it anymore. I told my son he couldn't keep that shirt at my house, and that he needed to keep it at mommy's house from now on. He seemed so confused and he asked "Don't you like <country>". I said "No, I don't." He says "I'm telling mommy that." I say "She already knows." He asks "Why don't you like it?" and I say "Ask mommy." He could see the anger in my face.

I have tried so hard to keep my kids completely ignorant of what's going on. They keep asking over and over "Why can't we all be together?" and "Why can't we live in one house?" My W has been singing the praises of this foreign country to my kids all year. After her first trip to see OM, she gave a presentation to each of their classes about how wonderful it is there. She was completely indifferent to how any of it made me feel. The fact that I existed and that I might be hurt by her actions was just annoying to her. We had an enormous fight when she said she'd want to bring the kids on a trip there, and I said it would never happen.

When I saw the shirt my son picked for his first day, I just lost it for a moment. I couldn't hold it all back anymore. A little of my hurt leaked out, and he picked up on it. He was so confused, and I know his fragile security was cracked. He hates what's going on, and he knows there are things he isn't being told. For the first time he saw that mommy and daddy are not united.

I just heard from my W that he had a tough first day at school, and that it was because of what I said to him. I feel absolutely awful. He doesn't deserve any of this, and the fact that he was at school worrying and wondering about his mommy and daddy just makes me sick to think about.

I hate all of this. I promised myself I would protect my kids through this and that they would never have to carry any burden because of it, and now I've failed. Why does my W not see the damage she's doing? How can she just do what she's doing, with complete indifference to how it might affect the rest of us? She expects me to just take all this, and if I show any sign of hurt or anger, then it's me who's failing.

[BeingMe]

How difficult for you, and I so understand your hurt and pain. I hated England for awhile until OW moved away from there. And now she's in Canada, so I can't hate my own country, although I will never live in the city where she lives. So, I know of what you speak. England has gone off the hate list now.

Don't beat yourself up too much. Your S has to know something was happening when your W left and that must've been just as stressful as his first day of school. Still, your timing could've been better. You can't protect them completely until things have been resolved one way or another. It would be best for a reconciliation, but it may not go that way. Kids have weird thinking that when mommy and daddy split, and they are unaware of why, they tend to think it's their fault somehow. Now, he discovers that daddy doesn't like 'said country' and mommy does. Perhaps he's going to think this is why mommy left. Make sure he knows that it's not his fault, and make sure he believes it.

Your W left, is having an A, so what the heck did she expect was going to happen? Nothing in the M, except abuse, should turn a person to someone else. You try and fix it, then you leave and find a new person a time after.

As I said, don't beat yourself up too much. Accidentally, spill a lot of ketchup on the t-shirt. Well, I would. I tossed gifts that my H received from OW. Your home is the marital home, therefore, nothing pertaining to the OP should taint it, if possible (in my mind, anyway).

Sorry, not much advice, put a lot of empathy.

[futureunknown]

That means a lot BeingMe, thanks for your support. Whereas I hate you had to go through it, I'm grateful for someone who can so clearly relate to what I'm going through.

Now I have more news. My W was going to my house to continue to clear out stuff today. After hearing about my son, I wanted to talk to her about it and make sure he was okay. Although I was very hesitant to do it, I drove home from work to see her. She was there with our youngest daughter. She was clearly emotionally hurting as she packed up her things. I didn't really know what to say, so I just milled around and did small talk for a bit, then I eventually asked her how our son was. She said he's okay, and that we should talk about it, but not now, when we have time to be alone without interruption. She was not angry at all, actually just the opposite. For the first time, I felt regret from her, and support for my feelings about it. She said "If you're feeling like giving me a hug, don't, I'm all sweaty and disgusting." I said "No, I wasn't thinking that." She said "Wow, I can't read you at all any more." Well, she can, because I lied, I absolutely was feeling like hugging her.

She did ask if I wanted to talk about other things, finances, splitting up stuff, etc. I said okay and we sat down to talk. We discussed various minor practical matters, then she said "You're really moving on this (the divorce), and it hurts. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it hurts." I was surprised by that, but that was just the beginning.

She said she was collecting up all the kids baby stuff, and was going to prepare a memory box for each of them, and asked if I wanted a set too, as there was enough stuff. I had my armor on and was acting aloof and indifferent to everything, but that went right through the armor and into my heart. My eyes started to tear up, and I whispered "No." She said "Are you sure?" and I just nodded. I looked away as I emotionally broke down, then I composed myself and I said "I'm sorry." She said "Don't be. I've been doing it all week."

Once we got past that moment, she says "Do you remember when we christened this house?" She was referring to when we ML there the first time. I just nodded and smiled and pointed to the area on the floor where we did it, after we drove there from the house closing. She smiled and nodded. Then she said "Do you remember when we took S for his first walk when he was only a week old? Right out there?" she said pointing to the driveway. I said "Sure, with the rickety old blue stroller we got handed down to us." Again she smiled in a way I haven't seen in a long time.

Here's the punch line. Then she looked very nervous and said "I'd like to get together to talk about us again. Not right now, I've just got too much else going on, but maybe in a few weeks? Would that be something you would be willing to do?" Her demeanor was one of meekness and vulnerability I haven't seen in years. I didn't show it at all, but I was blown away. There she was, my impervious WAW, the woman who left me for her wonderful OM, the woman I thought was gone forever, meekly asking if I would meet with her to talk about us. I didn't even think there was an us anymore. I didn't show my cards, I just stared at her, with a very hesitant look, but I eventually softly said "okay", with a suspicious look in my eye. I probably should have said no, but the moment was just too much to resist.

Now is when I really, really, really, need to be strong and stay distant from her. I have to let her chase me. If she acts like she did today, it's going to be very difficult, and will take every ounce of self control I've got.

[BeingMe]

I'm so sorry, futureunknown! My sitch never got that far, but I can just imagine.

Perhaps your WAW is finally realising who was there at the most important times in your family's lives --- between you and the children. Those memories are so precious. OM cannot even come close to feeling the feelings you had during those times. Like, when the children were born --- where was he? Nowhere! You and your W were wrapped up in the joy of their births, I'm sure, and no-one can know those moments. Only the two of you! When I told my H this, I think it was one of the things that got him thinking about our R.

Take care.

[futureunknown]

I've managed to maintain almost no communication at all, except for a few minor matters regarding the kids. My W brought movers to the house yesterday to move out the last of her things. I was surprised how that didn't bother me. I was relieved in fact, as her things had been hanging around in boxes for months and months. I was glad to have all that stuff gone so I can get the house organized and set up the way I want it. Very odd, she left me a bag of apples.

My W did call me after she moved the stuff to discuss our son, but when that was done she said my name, to which I replied "Yeah?", then she paused and said "Nothing... never mind." She is acting very unsure of herself every time I see her, which is uncharacteristic for her. When I picked up the kids last Sunday, she was acting like a school girl, nervous and self concious when she was talking to me. She nervously adjusted her clothes, and I said "What's wrong?" She said "I don't know, why are you looking at me like that?" I made a joke out of it and said "Like what? Should I look up at the sky when we talk?" I tilted my head back and kept talking. We both laughed. It occurred to me to make a move, like saying "Alright, this is ridiculous", taking her hand, and leading her to a private place out of view of the kids and going in for the "kill". I held back though. If this was any other woman, I would be absolutely certain she wanted me to do just that. She isn't any other woman though.

I think silence and time are my friends right now. The balance of power between us is in serious flux. I wonder if she wants me to give her some indication that I still want her and that I could forgive her. I can't be the one to initiate that conversation. She was the one who left, she was the one who said she doesn't love me anymore, she was the one who had the A. If she still wants a R with me, she has to find the courage inside herself to come to me and ask. Our previous R was degraded by me accommodating her insecurities, which led to where we are. If we are to have something new and better, that has to stop.

If anyone has any comments or advice, I'd love to hear it. I'm still stabbing in the dark, although I think there is a little light now.

[v1olin]

I think your last paragraph says it all. Your wife needs to come to you first. If she doesnt and you do it for her then she is not really owning her bad choices.