WAW and 4 kids

[tryingtilDorR]

A change in the weather brewing with me? I have felt this way before, but seem to be feeling even more indifferent about W than ever before after some things that happened this weekend.

Even though I feel like I have done a reasonable job setting boundaries and not let her disrespect me, I feel very disrespected and like a doormat for some reason the past couple of days after doing some thinking about my situation.

I have always been the one to try to make up after fights. I have been the one trying to get her to work on the R and complaining how OM has poisoned our chance to do that. I have always been the one to apologize for things.

Maybe I am finally viewing the R through unclouded lenses, and seeing myself through her eyes clearly now for the first time.

I have been reading posts from gucci, puppy, and coach and also read No More Mr. Nice Guy and am feeling like a whimp regarding my activities over the past 6 months, outside of trying to put my foot down about OM. I am also getting an idea of the contrast between me and the OM in her mind and even though he is a POS and someone that some day she will wake up and say 'what was I thinking?'. I realize I have not stacking up well against him in the respect department I fear.

More than ever all of the sudden I don't feel like seeing her, calling her, talking to her, or having much interaction with her for some reason. When she calls me I don't feel like answering (which is what she does to me).

Sandi told me earlier that detatching/droppin the rope was mostly an 'attitude' that the W would sense and they can see it in your eyes, just like us LBSs can see the distance in the WAS's eyes. I understood that from an intellectual standpoint and thought about how I could convey that, but I think I am now feeling it for real which is a big difference.

She won't ever want someone she doesn't respect, and I don't want someone who doesn't respect me I now realize (not sure why I didn't realize this before!). I thought respect came from being the father of her kids and a good provider but it isn't enough, especially when I consider why she is so attracted to OM. She may never get her respect back for me and as a result I might be OK letting her go. I feel bad for my kids/family, but not for myself anymore I don't think.

Timing for all of this change of attitude might be good - I am leaving for my annual trip to a particular sinful city where a bunch of my old school buddies and I do male bonding things every year and have a great time. Recently I wasn't looking forward to this trip because these guys are all happily married and it would remind me of what I had lost. I don't feel that way anymore and am looking forward to it. Taking my new attitude along on this weekend might do me some good and make for an enjoyable trip.

[pigskin]

Timing for all of this change of attitude might be good - I am leaving for my annual trip to a particular sinful city where a bunch of my old school buddies and I do male bonding things every year and have a great time. Recently I wasn't looking forward to this trip because these guys are all happily married and it would remind me of what I had lost. I don't feel that way anymore and am looking forward to it. Taking my new attitude along on this weekend might do me some good and make for an enjoyable trip.

I have a trip coming up as well with some close friends that we do every year. I too was not looking forward to it as it seemed like it was taking me away from my "work" at home with my relationship. But I thought, dammit, I'm going to enjoy it like old times, since these are the things in life we live for.

It may be awkward for a bit since one of my friends knows my situation and none of the others do. I'm debating on spilling the beans. But I also see it as a possible way of warning them to not take their marriages for granted; you never know what to expect. If I can help them at all it would be a good thing. Who knows - we assume people are happily married but they could be approaching a looming iceberg and hit it like we did, with no warning whatsoever.

[tryingtilDorR]

My situation is similar in that none of them know much about the situation, except one. He is a laywer (2 are actually) and I had confided in him some time ago since I wanted his legal advice in case things moved towards D.

I plan on telling them since it will be a hard subject to avoid. I think W is a little anxious about this. In some ways I would rather not talk about it much and just say 'we are having problems' 'W isn't sure she wants to stay in the M' 'W is sleeping in other room and we are separtated in house' and avoid the whole A topic altogether, but the one guy knows about this. I know what their reaction to everything will be. They will tell me she is having a PA, not just an EA, for sure (most guys focus on this point)!

[tryingtilDorR]

I had my weekend away with friends at a sinful city out west, and the interesting thing was that they were fairly sympathetic towards W or at least more so than I thought they would be. They have all had a crisis in their marriage and have had their wives go kind of nuts in one way or another, and one of the guys went through a situation similar to mine in the past couple of years as far as W having an EA and wanting a D. In the end, he dropped the rope and told her he wanted out and then she started coming around.

They advised me that whatever happens, happens, and that I need to keep my emotions in check. All in all they gave me great advice/feedback I think.

When I got home W was a little distant (she always is when I return from this trip). I haven't been checking her phone that much lately but felt compelled for some reason when I got home. I noticed that she had a text from the OM on the day I left that she forgot to delete. It was an asnwer to something she sent him so I didn't have the full context (she had deleted her msg).

I was angry at first, but then I decided to just let it go for the time being. On the one hand I want to tell her that I still want no contact, but at the same time the primary boundary I have set is that she can't communicate with him when I am around.

If I confront her then she gets angry because I am snooping around looking at her phone, but at the same time I feel like a doormat if I don't say something about it, but outside of getting my opinion accross nothing else will come of it - she will get nasty.

She has NO REASON to communicate with OM other than to get her fix, since they don't work together or have any other shared activities.

Also, my patience with the whole 'in house separation' thing is waning. I need to try to handle this more like GIMA, but the OM lurking really bugs me.

[tryingtilDorR]

I am wondering... maybe it is just a new outlook after a weekend away with friends and seeing that there is a big world out there that I never paid attention to when it comes to the opposite sex, or the advice from friends who tell me 'don't worry there are plenty of women out there' who speak from recent experience, but I am getting to the point where I feel like I want to tell W that I agree with her that we should D. Maybe it is just a passing thought, but maybe not.

Now, her position isn't that she wants a D TODAY, but that eventually she does and that she is just there for her kids 'for now' while she sleeps in another room and carries out a separation in our house. However, I am starting to realize how frustrating it is to be around the W.

It just hit me that I have thought about OM every day for the past six months - this just isn't worth it! It feels like it has taken over my life and I am so tired of it and burnt out.

D is the last thing I wanted to happen, but I see no way out of the hole we are in at this point and maybe I just need to let go an move on. Hanging on is becoming painful and demoralizing, especially with her continued contact with OM.

I am fighting a losing battle I fear.

[AnotherNightmare]

Trying,

To me this sounds like she is cake-eating. When I was in this situation, somebody on the board asked me if my W was a loner? Apparently she wants to separate, but not really, because she stays in the house. Have you separated your finances? What would happen if you suggested to her to move out? Of course, it depends on whether you are detached enough to stomach this one.

Someone else here described that it takes a drastic step to get out of limbo. There is a good chance that things fall back in place, but there is also a risk that you put the final nail into the coffin. The only question is how long you can handle limbo and when it is time to attempt to wake her up.

AN

[tryingtilDorR]

Apparently she wants to separate, but not really, because she stays in the house. Have you separated your finances? What would happen if you suggested to her to move out? Of course, it depends on whether you are detached enough to stomach this one.

Yes, she is a heavy cake-eater. I recognized this when she moved into the other room. Funny you should ask, but I just asked her to move out last night after getting a little angry about an exchange we had. Also, Yes, we have separated finances - we have separate checking/savings accounts and divide up household expenses.

Last night I accidentally touched her when I was walking around her in our kitchen and she told me "quit brushing up against me when you walk by" in front of my kids. It is a little thing, but it just set me off. Also, she wanted to know exactly what I told my friends on the trip about our M, so I told her. She knows we all talk about our M issues every year so this was no different but she got angry. They already knew some of the story so I just filled in the rest and they wished me the best.

Later, when kids weren't around, I told her she should put in a better effort in front of our kids to show a functional relationship between us. This led to more discussions, where she told me once again the following (these are all repeat statements from the past year):

I am just here for our kids
We are married in name only - you don't have a wife
I can have 'friends' whom I text, etc - it is impossible to have a R with OM if just texting once in a while
We are done and there is nothing to work on
I didn some bad things (EA) and then you did as well (telling people about EA - long story)


I told her that I now realize that she IS done and that I am going to accept that she will not be willing to work on the M ever going forward, so we should sort out how to separate. I told her I didn't ever want a D, but at this point I see no hope for R since both of us need to try eventually and she is clearly not going to do that based upon her actions/statements so I am ready to let go. I told her I don't want to be married to someone who won't sleep in my bed and whom I have to share with other men, at least emotionally.

She made her typical statement of "if you don't like it then YOU leave" and I said that she has been telling me that for months, but that SHE is the one who has been unhappy all along so she should follow her own advice!

It was a contentious discussion at times but I tried to keep my cool. Today I sent her a text asking if she had been looking into rental houses in our area (her cousin is a Realator whom she talkes to often). I may look into this myself today.

I have my IC appointment this morning and need to sort out next step. Her reaction to all this was basically nothing, which is what I expected - she wants to stay in limbo because she is comfortable there but I am becoming less so. I need to keep pushing the point but not in a mean kind of way. She will try to turn it on me or at least try to share the burden by saying we should alternately move out every other week or something like that - she has mentioned this before - but I am firm on her leaving and not me given her statements above, plus she can't afford the house. We both want our kids to stay in the home no matter what for now.

I just can't deal with her any more - it is frustrating and I don't see things ever changing. She said a few weeks ago "the sooner I leave the better" and now I think she is right.

I am prepared for any outcome I think at this point.

I will have some rough times ahead of me, but I realize it is rough either way and I feel like a doormat when I really look at how she treats me and I am tired of her direspecting me by keeping a friendship going with OM and also visiting his buddy the trainer every week where OM decided to show up once.

I have been waiting for a mircale and praying for one, but maybe the help I am getting from God is seeing the situation for what it is and slowly being able to let her go. I feel so bad for our kids and extended families right now.

[AnotherNightmare]

Also, she wanted to know exactly what I told my friends on the trip about our M, so I told her.

I am not sure I would have done that. DBing is about being mysterious. I remember how right after the bomb it used to drive me crazy when my W went out with a friend and I did not know what they talked about. Of course, now I am over that, but since WAS oftentimes feel guilty, that is the time when their conscience sets in. They are afraid of what you might say about them.

I told her that I now realize that she IS done and that I am going to accept that she will not be willing to work on the M ever going forward, so we should sort out how to separate.

Be careful not to repeat yourself too often. It is important to say things only once. I almost think it will make them listen (just like with kids), and maybe they start hearing things that do not fit the picture they have of you.

She made her typical statement of "if you don't like it then YOU leave" and I said that she has been telling me that for months, but that SHE is the one who has been unhappy all along so she should follow her own advice!

Exactly, do not move out! She needs to move out.

Cake-eaters know you are in this ambivalent state, you still love them, have all the hopes for the M to be repaired, wait for them to finally wake up, but at the same you may realize it is not working and you do not want to waste more time. So how do you get out of this state? Some file for D themselves, others start an A, or you really start GAL, become mysterious. You go out a lot without telling her where you are going and what you are doing. You make the WAS wonder.

I know I need to follow my own advice a little more. But I also think I am at a different stage than you. I do not think my W would stay for the kids.

[Deep]

Hi Trying, sorry to read about how things are going, but also happy in a way for you that there are positives too. I think our own personal state of mind as the LBS is the one thing of utmost importance that we keep flailing around helplessly at the most.

People just won't wake up till something forces them to. Even then it may take so much time. Put your foot down firmly on some of the things she has been throwing at you (as you have been doing). And just remember that your WAS probably doesn't even know her own mind even as she keeps changing it.

One thing I have been mulling for some time is the effect of the DB / GAL mode on the LBS long term. I was very tempted to send personal messages to a couple of the more acknowledgable posters here before I found that this action is disabled.

[tryingtilDorR]

Thanks again AN and Deep for your feedback.

So how do you get out of this state? Some file for D themselves, others start an A, or you really start GAL, become mysterious.

I have been thinking about this and will continue to GAL (had been for a while but it will accelerate now) but also combining it with my new attitude of 'I don't care what happens with M either way'.

Either way the M/R will be hard - it is hard to stay in limbo and it will be hard on everyone if we D. Therefore, whatever happens happens. I feel like a burden has been lifted from me and that I see how I can take control of my life again if I shake my focus of saving the M, which is not a fruitful exercise.

I realize that maybe now I am finally listening to her that it is probably over. I still don't think she really knows that, but if it is it is. I have tried everything I feel even though I have backslid at times.

She knows I feel this way. I have talked to her again about it today and tried to press her to do something but she is set on sticking around and cake-eating.

Therefore, I told her that since I am finally at the 'letting go of the M' point like she was a while back we might as well try to be friends for the remaining months that we are here together as a family. It has been hard to be friends since I haven't been able to back off at times and she has been angry at me for exposing her EA to people. Now, with the 'pressure' of opposing views on the prospect of the M out of the way maybe we can have a chance to just be friendly, be good parents to our kids and increase the happiness factor around the home, and pursue our own lives at the same time ( but still maintaining my no-OM boundary)?

I have tried to get her to leave and I have no way to force her. She is financially independent if she just works more days per week and can survive on her own and she knows it, but she still won't take steps to go.

One thing I have been mulling for some time is the effect of the DB / GAL mode on the LBS long term.

The thing that has affected me more than anything is her behavior and attitude towards me. At the same time, my own GAL activities may also contribute to my negative reaction to her behavior since I value myself more as a result of these activities and recognize treatment that I don't want to put up with.

Before doing a lot of IC I would insulate myself from this kind of thing and brush it off, which made me kind of numb and caused problems with the R over time.