I was reading through your last threads Bagheera.. i wish i could give my husband your email address...lol I think you could soo enlighten him.. w/o the insult of coming from me..i wish he had found this place instead of me..
With regard to your sexual ralationship -- what you want out of it and what he can gain from it too -- the Just F*ck Me! book that you ordered will say things better than I probably could, once he starts reading it. It was written by a woman, specifically for women in your situation --> who want their beloved husbands to start bringing out their inner 'bad-boys' in the bedroom, rather than being all timid, tender, and overly-attentive.
I also wanted to recommend to you that while this marital 'upheaval' is going on, that you give your husband plenty of time and space to himself, in addition to talking with counselors and having talks between yourselves. One of the most noticeable differences between men and women is in how they handle problems and stress.
Women generally tend to want to TALK the problems out, share feelings, emotions, complain, gripe, bounce ideas and thoughts around -- and the very act of doing that is soothing, calming, and helps them to find a solution to a problem by talking around and around it.
Men generally tend to want to isolate themselves and THINK the problem out, often engaging in some soothing activity (a hobbie, watching sports or the news, etc.) to occupy the front of their brains while they turn the pressing problem over and over and examine it from all sides in the back of their brains. John Gray calls this tendency "disappearing into his cave." Once the man has soothed -himself- and thought the problem through for a time, only then will be ready to engage in a discussion about it again.
So you can see the built-in conflict: a problem arises in the relationship, the woman wants to talk about it, and the man wants to retreat into the man-cave and think about it. Pursuing a man into the man-cave, in an attempt to -make- him talk (because you 'just know' it's what you need to do) is a BAD idea --> it will make him angry and even less likely to talk, and keep him 'stuck' in his cave for an even longer period of time.
So give him some 'cave-time,' HJR. As a man, he -needs- it. If you need to talk and he is in his cave, call a friend, come write to us, find some other outlet until you think he's ready to engage with you again. And don't be angry at him for needing some cave-time: he's a man, and is wired differently from you.
Additionally, as a general rule of thumb, most couples can only handle about two long, serious R talks a week, if even that many. They are draining, exhausting, and stressful. Both parties generally need some 'digestion time' between talks in order to make progress --> otherwise you just end up repeating what you said the last time. And don't expect -any- problems to be quickly solved during any particular talk: 'light-bulb' moments are rare. It's more important to LISTEN, honestly listen, to your spouse, and to be HEARD yourself: empathy is essential. You'd be surprised how much better both of you will feel just by simply being heard and understood -- perhaps for the first time in your marriage -- even if severe differences continue to exist. The actual problem solving generally occurs gradually, and often after the partners have had time to think on their own about what they have heard and understood.
Give it time, HJR, and be patient with him and yourself. This situation took YEARS to develope. It will take months to years to fix. As a general rule of thumb, it takes about 1-2 months for every year that you have been married to put a broken marriage back together again and restore it to a happy, satisfying state, and that is with BOTH partners on board and working on it.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
OK..Lucky and who ever else is brave enough to offer their advice.. I want to feel alive.. again.. I want to feel wanted .. not like a mom or a wife.. as a woman..I want my kids to be happy ...I want H to want live his life rather than let it roll by..I want him to be happy..I want to feel like I am doing the right thing for me.. with out hurting other people...
that is as far as i could get.. So far..going back to school and getting physically fit are the two main steps I have taken.. I really want to avoid antidepressants again.. but somedays like today I wonder if Im destined to be on some kind.. I cry every day..sometimes several times a day.. I dont seem to be able to shake this feeling of despair.. i do for a short time.. but it creeps up on me.. I told IC that i wasnt going on them as long as I was functional..but crying in front of your kids and crying yourself to sleep is starting to look non- functional..
Bagheera- I know you are right.. about him needing space..but it seems we are back in the old pattern of him returning to himself and me w/ the kids.. that we dealt w/ for 10 years..but i will back off him.. im sure he will talk in counseling next week..as far as the sex book.. i dont even know if I want to give it to him now.. we are not even near that topic.... seems pointless..
I know well the fear of "if I back off from bringing up these issues, he/she will just drift back to the old status quo." We just went through a round of that last month, actually, when we hit a nice plateau and I became afraid that Mrs. B was starting to sit down and declare our M-improvement work done....not!
The best thing that you can do for yourself is to take breaks from obsessing, or 'pinging' on the situation yourself. Be sure to keep yourself busy, and do nice things for yourself -- treat yourself in some fashion DAILY. Take a long, relaxing bath / walk / drive. Enjoy the spring air out in the yard / playground with the kids / park. Go shopping and get a new book / plant / item of clothing. Go out with a girlfriend to lunch / dinner / a movie / a play / bowling / whatever interests you. Go treat yourself to a new haircut / manicure / pedacure / facial. Find some local club / group / church / society that you have an interest in and can actively participate with.
Start filling your life with GOOD THINGS. Take positive steps each day to do so. Everytime you find yourself wanting to sit and mope and ping on these issues -- get up and do something nice for yourself instead.
-- B.
P.S. Why are you still sitting there reading this?! Go be nice to yourself!!
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
OMG Bagheera.. i got the book today.. i just filed that away for another day..we are no where near those discussions..LOL....
I would read through it anyway, on your own, just to reassure yourself that (a) you are perfectly normal in desiring this, and (b) that yes, it -IS- possible for your mild-mannered man to find and unleash his inner rake / rogue / pirate / caveman.
At the same time, I understand exactly what you are saying above. I don't think that form of sexual relationship should begin until the two of you have reestablished a lot of love, trust, and CONNECTION. My wife didn't reveal to me what had been missing in the bedroom until we were about 8 months into the recovery process, and even then, very reluctantly.
-- B.
At least I made you smile, and laugh.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
This is when I wish we could send PM's...lol... i hate to get into our sex life in such an open forum...but we actually do some of those things or have done them..and after being on that "website" and having the fire reignited in my mind.. i have been VERY explicit of what turns me on...which includes the basic premise of the book.. but i dont think he has the drive at all...he has some health issues that possibly contribut to that, but overall it is the same as ever..its just mine has picked up immensely since coming off the meds..its not so much that i want to have "sex".. im craving the attention and passion that accompanies it..he doesnt get that.. he is wrapped up in what he is "able" to do and not "able" to do..
I want that kind of change in him throughout his whole life.. which means I want him to change his personality.. and Im not sure that is fair..
There is so much distance and hurt between us now..i dont evenfeel i can reach out and hold his hand..which makes me sad b/c he was always who comforted me through everything, so I have to go this alone as I "made my own bed" as some would say.. and its better that i do anyway..
ONe thing i will say.. is this distance and isolation is making the urge to return to the website even stronger..i feel more alone every day..but im trying to fill my days up..so maybe i can keep it under control..
We have counseling on Tuesday, Im sure he will have some things to say then..until then we are just having basic everyday talk.."dinner, kids, etc." which seems so fake and contrived when we are dealing w/ such a big issue..
OK Bagheera, Lucky and DQ..today after my exercising..i seem so clear in thought...
The more i pursue for my self improvement, the more i feel myself pulling away from him....the more my goals become more "me" oriented...I cant and dont want to wait on him to "wake up"..which is scary..:(..
It took all this time for me to get this way.. and now that I slipped up.. he thinks we have problem...Which i resent the hell out of..so much so.. i dont really care about what i did..
But the real problem lies in the fact that niether of us have been happy, and we both feel we are moving in seperate directions..
NO..i have not..i have been tempted.. but realize that is not where the answer lies....
It is a quick "feel good" remedy.. and I know this is bigger than that..
We just had a very honest discussion..about the fact that neither of us really knows what we want or what to do...and that any effort on either part feels "contrived" or fake.. I think we are both in the same boat.. totally clueless.. ALl i was saying above.. is that the more I am taking control of my personal happiness... the less I see him in the picture.. which is not a good sign:( I know its still very early..but something in me feels this is moving on w/o us.. We cant even come to a realization together that we want to work on it ....
HJR...have you done any reading about mid-life crisis? From the way you described that it was like a switch turned on, around the time you found the sex sites, etc and I think you said there was an illness or a death in the family....plus a lot of the things you are saying sound like MLC script. Have you read any of that info? It may help you to understand that many people go through this, and that it does end at some point...
