blueheart...in your last post on your own thread, you wondered if possibly your H has transferred his alcohol addiction to a sex addiction. Yes I would agree with that, and I also have addiction issues so I am speaking from personal experience.
There is literally zero chance that your H and this OW will make it on down the line. But it could go on for a very long time, especially if they are both addicts and it sounds like that might be the case. So are you willing to wait it out, maybe 2 - 5 years for him to come to his senses? Even if you do, he won't respect you by the end of it, because he won't be able to respect someone who let him eat cake.
I'm so sorry to say this but in your sitch, I would absolutely just go dark completely. Yes he will be confused and will wonder what is going on with you, he will ask what's wrong, he may even get angry or say something like "see? This is why I left you!" Let it all roll off your back. As you know, addicts will say things that are not true, especially when their actions are slapping them in their own face.
I know that you fear by going dark you will lose him forever, and that is why you (and most LBS's) don't go dark. Please re-read my original post on this thread. Don't let yourself be fooled by your own heart hoping for something other than reality to be true. There is still and always a chance he will snap out of it before its too late. But ... letting him eat cake will not only prolong his waffling, it will also cause him to feel contempt and disrespect for you purely because you are allowing yourself to be disrespected by him. It doesn't matter that you love him. That is not the message he is getting. What he's hearing is "Go ahead, wipe your feet on me, I love you so its ok"...to which he can only reply "what is wrong with a person who would say that?" Right? I do hope that didn't hurt your feelings, and remember these things all go on subconsciously. Your H is not consciously thinking this...but subconsciously, yes he is.
I'm so sorry, I wish I could say "oh it sounds like everything will be fine". It doesn't sound like that to me. It sounds like you should go dark and begin moving forward. Like I always emphasis though, moving forward doesn't mean divorce per se. It just means moving forward from the position you are currently in. Make that change and move forward to the next step, whatever that is. Moving forward does not mean moving on. It means taking charge of your own life and in that process, at a minimum he WILL respect you. Even if it doesn't bring him back. Remember all that I said above about how he may freak out, yell at you, accuse you of changing the rules, etc, when you try to go dark. IGNORE THIS. It will blow over. Be prepared. I hope you have a good network of people close to you to help you through this difficult time.
Ok now this will seem to contradict myself, but I have to make a point based on something in your post. You said:
"There were things he said that told me he has somehow understood the weight and effect of the affair in our marriage. He hinted that this separation could be the thing that would save our marriage, and said that he will want to move back for good for the right reasons (and not just because they fought). He is looking for that reason, among other things."
I am having a problem with the he has "somehow understood the weight and effect of the affair in your marriage". Somehow?
Here's the point I want to make...when you are having an affair, yes you make all kinds of rationalizations to yourself about how it wasn't your fault and I have been trying to tell him/her all along and blah blah blah...but at the same time, YOU KNOW when you are having an affiar HOW THIS WILL AFFECT THE MARRIAGE! To pretend not to "really get it" is bull crap.
When a cheating spouse has you under their thumb and begging for scraps such as, he pretends to only "somehow" understand how the affair affects the marriage, this can mean only one thing: he has brain washed you into believing that he really doesn't get it, BUT HE DOES. They always do.
All that is really happening is that he has the upper hand in the relationship. He knows inside that his affair is death to any normal marriage, but you've also let him know by staying by his side and letting him cake eat, that you are willing to "overlook" how bad the affair really is out of "love" for him. But as I was saying to blueheart above, he isn't really hearing "love" from you, he is hearing "I'll let you wipe your feet on me", to which his only reply could be "what is wrong with a person who would let me do that?"
So like blueheart, my advice to you is to go completely dark and GAL. Pull all the way back and do your own thing.
I know and understand how hard this advice is to take, because of the huge amount of fear and anxiety it produces. But sweetie, he has ALREADY done and continues to do the most horrible thing you can do to a spouse! What more hurt do you fear could be coming?
I'm a big advocate of trying very hard to understand your own contribution to the problems in the marriage, and I truly believe that most WAS's did not want to walk...they feel it was a last resort, or that their OP only turned up at a vulnerable moment but the problems were already there....these things are truly felt by the WAS. It is not b.s.
But at the same time, there is no person who is having an affair that doesn't "understand" what an affair "does to a marriage". That is just pure nonsense.
I have to shake my head at times....when I confessed my first A to my ex-h, I fully thought he might leave me and he would be fully within his rights to do so. I did not throw at him any part of the issue at that time. I just confessed and asked him how he wanted to proceed. There was no confusion on my part AT ALL about whether my A was "caused" by "him". I knew it was my decision and it was wrong and he had every right to hate me for it, no matter how bad our problems were.
My later A's, I never revealed to him, but if he had found out I would not have said "well I didn't realize it would bother you so much, what's the big deal?"
I would appreciate some advice on my sitch. Just to add to. When I busted him and the ex bestfriend other woman I said some things that really hurt him. I told him that he was worthless and didn't have anything in his life to be proud of. I also told him that the last 3 and a half years of my life were a waste. I tend to bite really hard when I am hurt. I've never been this way toward my husband and he has never seen this side of me before. It just really hurt to know that he has been having this EA with my ex bestfriend behind my back for so long and that I feel as if I was being played by both of them. She pretending to be my friend while stealing my husband and then continuing to do so when he left and both of them lying about all of this. Please advise if you can. I would appreciate it.
"It is excruciating pain. It is the pain of separation, the pain of loss, the pain of dreams and expectations unrealized. It is the loss and death of a mirage."
DQ, Me next! Don't know if you've been following my sitch but if you've got any input I'd be grateful. In a word, my wife has slept w/ 4 guys and thinks she's in love with the latest all in the span of 7 months. She said she wanted to come home, confessed all, "said" she broke it off w/ OM and then ran away again 3 hours later. Speculations as to if she is back w/ OM? Thoughts on how to proceed? Is it worth it at this point? Should I just move on? Trying to not pursue and don't know if I'm being successful or not. Thanks! http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1757458&page=2#Post1757458
M-41 ex-W-40 Together--17 years SS-20 D-14 Bomb--2 Feb 09 WAW--6 Feb 09 Officially divorced on 2 Jun 2010!!! ex-W has a boyfriend 8 Jun 2010!!! Off we go into the wild blue yonder!!!!
Thanks for your reply, DQ. I appreciate your point of view on this. I did read your initial post about affairs where ILY is said within the first month. He also told her that she would be his bride. Unbelievable!
As far as them both being addicts, I have a bit more hope on that front. My H is very active in AA and I know that many of his AA comrades realize what is going on with him. He's still going to a lot of meetings - so hopefully, he will come to his senses sooner than later.
There's also his lifestyle that is severely compromised. He has no money and is in constant stress about it. He's lost a huge amount of weight and looks awful.
As far as going dark, I have been doing that much, much more. But there is occasional contact about our pets, house and finances. I feel that in my particular sitch, it is best to go mostly dark, but on occasions when I do see him (few and far between) follow the advice of my DB coach and act upbeat, positive and very together.
Today is a particularly horrible day for me. Woke up very, very depressed and despondent. I am trying to move on - joined al-anon, got a sponsor, trying to work on myself. But I just miss him so, so much.
I hate to bug, but would appreciate some advice if you could spare the time DQ.
"It is excruciating pain. It is the pain of separation, the pain of loss, the pain of dreams and expectations unrealized. It is the loss and death of a mirage."
goingtofix....your story is really sad, especially of course the latest stuff, where you are betrayed by your ex-bf AND your husband both.
But please brace yourself for what I'm about to say....
This does not excuse anything he has done, but my personal feeling is that a young man of 23 has no business trying to be married to an older woman with teenaged kids.
It takes lots of time, and seeing children through their baby and toddler years, then childhood, before you REALLY know how to parent teens. For him to marry you and try to become a father figure to your teen kids right out of the gate, is just too much to ask of such a young man. I know that some are capable of this....but most are not. I am not surprised he has bolted.
Not that it is right, and obviously the betrayal with your best friend is not right....but both bolting and taking up with your bf just show his immaturity at this age and stage in life. Its my opinion from reading literally thousands of stories of people's relationships, that men don't truly settle down and mature enough for marriage until after age 30. I hope no one gets down on me for that, because I do know there are exceptions and some very young men can settle down....but for the most part, the ones who try at ages like 23 are just setting themselves up for disaster.
I hate saying this to you because it sounds like I am saying your marriage was a mistake....but really, all I am saying is that he fulfilled the immaturity that could be expected of him at this age.
At this point, I know you are steeped in pain....but I don't see any reason for you to pursue him or the marriage any longer. He and your ex-bf both know and understand the betrayal they have heaped upon you...they are going to disappear with their tails between their legs because they know it is wrong. However, do you want him to wake up from guilt alone and come back to you? And even if he does, he is still only 23 years old...how will anything have changed?
It takes so much life experience in order to grow up and be mature. He hasn't had that experience yet. That is why he can make such bold mistakes and horrible moves, he isn't old enough to fully understand the consequences, regardless of the guilt he feels.
One day when he has truly matured, he will have so much regret for how he has handled this. He will one day know what it means to be a man and how you don't take up with your wife's bf, no matter WHAT! But that day will be so far in the future that it will not matter to your current marriage.
I'm so sad for you, but I don't see much reason for you to hope....
The only hope I do see is if he and ex-gf break up, he realizes what he has done and comes begging back to you...but he will likely only do this if you have gone totally dark first and he thinks you have moved on....and EVEN IF he does come begging back, my personal opinion is that he is an emotional teenager himself and should not be raising teenaged children with you. Again, that's just my opinion, not advice.
I'm so sorry hon....I hate saying things like this. I wish I could wave a wand for you all....
You mentioned you had recently read the original Mars/Venus book and it helped you understand many things. Have you also read Mars and Venus on a Date? That book will really help you understand some more of the dynamics that possibly contributed to his feelings when he left...how a man must feel that he is the MAN and not just one of your children, etc. I know that you both tried not to feed into that dynamic, but unfortuantely, you both did feed into it and that is a recipe for disaster to a marriage. The book may help you understand many other things as well...but don't hope for the book to bring him back....it will not. It will just help you in trying to cope by understand all the things that happened.
I thank you for your advice and your opinions. I must explain that he was 23 when we got together. He will be 27 in August. I agree that I need to move on. I doubt seriously after the hurtful things I said to him that he could see past that and understand my hurt and how that is what drove me to say what I did. I'm crushed. I know I can go on and I thank you for your time. As for going totally dark. I took him his mail today and left it. Did not see him. I also left him the book The Five Love Languages. Maybe it can help him understand what he needs to do in his future relationships. I know his relationship with my ex best friend will crumble as they do not really have anything other than their misery to talk about. They can only shop and go to so many concerts before they will actually need to talk about something other than how miserable each one of them are. I do not suspect that he will come crawling back then. There has been too much said and done from both sides. Which is very sad as I have never loved anyone like I did him. I just wasn't speaking his love language. :*(
"It is excruciating pain. It is the pain of separation, the pain of loss, the pain of dreams and expectations unrealized. It is the loss and death of a mirage."
