Yes, you're right in many sense of what you're saying but I just did not know how to deal with it at that point of time and I don't think I was blind.
She has said to me a few times that she hates me and does not have any more love for me anymore, I just do not have concrete evidence that she has a emotional "affair" with this OM. It may be one-sided, I'm not sure if it is mutual though becos he seems to be leaving us alone since I confronted him for "leading" her on and "encouraging" by NOT setting appropriate boundaries.
What should I do now?? Should I try to confront them again, should I try to gather more concrete evidence to prove them right. I can only work on myself, I know this guy's marriage is also struggling but not to our extent though.
thank you for your suggestions and generous time. will keep in touch.
Does it matter if the EA was reciprocal? If your W has formed an emotional attachment to the OM, I would say the point of reciprocity is fairly moot. Once the hormones flood their head, they head off to lala land. I'm not saying that you shouldn't continue to try and piece together whatever evidence that they have been careless enough to let slip, but it seems pretty clear that she has already checked out with you, and in with him.
My sitch is very similar to yours: OM was just a friend, she would never do anything, etc. etc. I was stupid enough to let them go to a motel at the beach together, a cabin by the lake, he stayed at my house every day for 10 days while I was at work, etc. etc.
Sorry to break it to you, but an EA is an A, sexual or not.
Me40 WAW37 M18 T20 S18,14 D13 EA Bomb 6/08 Sep 11/20/08 Ret 08/09 Sep/Filed 11/09
but I just did not know how to deal with it at that point of time and I don't think I was blind.
I wasn't trying to see how offensive I could be toward you, but you did "sound" blind and I was trying to get you to open your eyes and see what appears to be very obvious. I have been there and I know about these EA's. Besides, you can't trust him just b/c you confronted him and he led you to believe it was all one-sided. Don't you think it feeds his ego to know she is struck on him? Besides, if he claims to be your "friend".....what did you expect him to tell you? Of course he will deny anything on "his" part.
You say you don't know what to do and that she hates you and that you have no concrete evidence that she has an emotional affair with OM. You asked if you should confront them again. I say that you should not confront them if you have no solid evidence. By answering what should you do.......are you forgetting those 39 points of things to do and not do that I sent to you? I thought that was a pretty good starting place. I got the feeling that you just discarded that list and paid it no attention or thought it did not apply to you or whatever, but you apparently did not take it seriously. If you believe in DBing then you have to believe in that list b/c it is just a short guide list of what DBing is all about.
Yes, you need to work on yourself. If you will do what is on that list, you stand your best chance of becoming the man she fell in love with and you will become attractive to her again. If you choose to ignore the list and choose "your way" (whatever that is) of working this out.....you will lose. Why? B/c you will either pursue or pressure her. You have to keep your list handy to keep focused b/c otherwise you will feel "needy" and clingy, you will over-kill, get too affectionate and run her off.
The main reason I came on as strongly as I did was that it bothered me that you did not seem that upset about the whole idea of her having an EA with your "friend". Your friend said, "no"...so that was good enough for you. That is not the world we live in today, unfortunately. Friends and spouses lie. Your wife is addicted to the feel good chemicals that is flooding her brain from the excitement with OM in the EA. I did not know about any of this until it happen to me. After I heard about it, I started reading about what could happen to a women if it continues and it scared me to death. That was the beginning of the end of my EA. So, it is a serious thing and you need to take it seriously. If it means me making you mad, then it will be worth getting you to deal with it. Regardless of how I may appear to come across on this post, I truly am here to help b/c I want to help bust every possible future divorce. I want to help you in any way that I can. I will try to encourage, suggest, advise, pray, or make you mad....... whatever it takes to help. But, you have got to continue to come here and work with us by posting and cooperating......okay? Is it a deal?
Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
hi Sandi, thanks so so much for your kind and yet helpful and tough words.\you're right, I'm so afraid that is why I confronted her, she does not believe that there is anything, I was too trusting before but not anymore. I'm taking things seriously and that is why I keep coming back for more. I've also read Michelle's book and steps some months ago and applied it with some temporary "success" before but somehow I could not sustain the changes and I just kept rescuing her again.
I think I might have pushed her away by pursuing her before but not anymore. I need to work on my own transformation and seek what is it in me that is triggering her.
thank you for your patience. I do believe you, I hope I'm not pushing you away, You do not make me mad ...... I trust that your ministry and support to others will continue to bear fruit. fyi: I've made a copy of the steps give me and is trying to put it handy and in my memory.
fyi: I've made a copy of the steps give me and is trying to put it handy and in my memory.
Ahhh, that is all I need to hear to be excited in doing all I can to encourage you to stay on course!
First, let me say that not believing or accepting what seems to be right in your face is very typical with spouses of the wayward party. I don't know if you have looked at the forum here on the board that has all the abbreviations, but most of us use them and you will get the hang of it shortly.
I will tell you how I felt when I was in that place where your wife is now. Except I met a man over the Internet and became involved in an EA. If you knew me in person, you would understand why I say that I would be the last person on earth you would suspect (besides your own W) of doing such a thing! My H was just as unsuspecting and trusting as you are. He almost had a heart attack when he discovered my messages to the OM....and I'm not kidding about the heart attack.
Right now, she does not feel any of her natural loving emotions toward you. You need to realize that it is a "state of mind" she is going through and those feeling can return if you do what is advised. There are a few women who are too far gone by the time the H comes here to the board to seek help, but I think maybe you have come in time. So, first of all, be prepared for her to act cold and not giving physical affection or loving words or even common courteous behavior. You must be mentally braced for all of this. I'm sure she has already displayed all of this if she has told you she hates you. Now, is the time to back away, or pull back from her and give her space. I do not mean to move out of the house! Stay under the same roof as long as you can. If she begins to talk about leaving, let her know that you want to make the M work and that you will not financially support her to live apart from you and you will do nothing to enable her affair. That will be why she wants to leave is so she is free to do what she wants regarding the EA. I know.....b/c that is exactly what I was going to do after my H found out, but I could not afford to support myself, so I had to stay here and of course I hated it, but if I had ever left....it probably would have been the end of my M and my life would have been in shambles.
As far as giving her "space", I mean to not pursue her by being in the same room as she is in all the time. Do not follow her around the house trying to talk to her. Let her be the one to start conversations. Try to keep a positive attitude showing but don't over kill and act like you've lost your mind being all giddy when she knows there is no reason for you to be that way. Just don't go around the house letting her see how hurt you are, how depressed you may feel. By wearing your feelings on your sleeve (as the old saying goes), it actually will turn her off from you even more. You have to act opposite of how you are feeling! You main objective is to outshine the OM in her eyes. That is quite a goal b/c right now she the excitement of the OM is all she thinks about. But in time, if you are consistant with your actions, she will begin to see either the man she fell in love with.....or a new man that you have become. You need to be attractive to her in your looks, actions, personality, everything. You need to become interesting to her. Let's face facts here. When two people have been together for a long time, things could get rather boring if it isn't given a lot of attention and effort. Sometimes, one of the people in the M may start to not try as hard to look as good as they once did. I know we can't stop the aging process, but we can do the best with what we have to work with. If you need to lose some weight, buy some updated clothes, try a new hair cut, or go to the gym and tone up.....do it and it will not only help your physical appearance but it will help your ego as well. Exercise is the best medicine you can do for yourself at this time. Don't tell her what you are doing and don't explain why you are doing any of this. In fact, you don't explain your whereabouts or your plans or your actions......nothing. If she asks questions, just give vague answers. Never, ever lie to her. If you get all dressed up and you say, "I'm going out for a while" and she asks where, why, and all of that, you just say that you just need some fresh air, or you are going to walk around the mall or whatever.....b/c that may be all you know to do right now is just drive around for a while to get out of the house. In time, you will think of things you use to like to do or get in touch with friends, but you need to get a life (GAL) that does not include her. If she should ask to go to the mall with you, you can say, "If you want to" and make the most of being together. Try to be fun to be around without pursuing her. Don't talk about the relationship at all, and that is hard to do b/c that is what is on your mind. But, it will lead to a bad talk if you bring it up. So, stay away from that. Just act upbeat and try to remember what it was like before you were M and be fun again. Keep your hands to yourself and don't try to hold her hand, put your arm around her or get a kiss. If she should lean in for a hug or a kiss.....then you wait for her and barely respond b/c you are making her work for it. That will throw her a bit.....which is good. Do what we call 180's which is something different than what you have normally been doing. Something that is not "bad" but that she would not expect. That may please her or it may shock her, but it keeps her off balance enough to get her full attention off the EA and onto you. Don't try to "date" her at this time, b/c it is too soon. Later, when things are a little better, you can go that route, but right now she doesn't want to be around you. Pretend that you are not hurt and that you are going to be fine and that you have a life and go on about having that life. That does not include other women b/c you are a M man and you need not to flirt or be in a situation where that could be tempting. But, stay busy at doing something when you are home at the same time she is there. Don't appear to mope around and act lonely, but keep busy. Don't let her see you reading any DB material or M books. You can go to bed early and read if she isn't in the room with you, but don't leave the books out for her to see. Don't tell her about this DB board and keep the history deleted. The reason is b/c all of these things are your tools to help you and you are not going to expose your "game plan" to your opposing team (your W). It is just smart business.
I have to go get ready for work, but I'll be back. BTW, if your W should start talking about divorce.....just refuse to discuss it and tell her that you don't want a D and that you believe the M is worth saving. No matter what excuse she gives, don't agree to anything. You can't control what she does, but just don't give in to help her do whatever she is trying to do b/c she isn't in her normal state of mind. (Of couse, you don't tell her that!)
Talk to you later, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, The advice you give from your POV is invaluable. You are a great asset to the board. I learn from reading your posts. Cheers Coach
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
thanks Sandi for your most helpful advice and suggestions.
I've fwd #38 to OM and confronted him about boundaries. I'm working on myself and spending time with my kids and taking each of them on special dates now and they really love it and are appreciative too.
I'm just wondering if I should cut off all relationships with our fellowship group becos that is what she is going to do but it is the only group we have now and they will be suspicious and the OM is still in the group.
Thank you Coach. That means a lot coming from you. As I recall, the first post (maybe the only one...lol) that I sent you, I was so weary and should not have been up writing that long, but I went to your stitch and you had just come on board. I just remember saying something flippant like, "I don't even know where to begin with you!" I have regretted saying that and I think I told you but in case I didn't, I have thought about it serveral times since, and realize that I have to limit myself b/c I get spread too thin and get too tired. Don't mean to sound arrogrant when I say that, but I just want to reach out to so many people that I tend to take on too much and then it starts to show in my post by the way I talk. Anyway, I'm glad that statement did not discourage you from doing your good work. A lot of people on here respect what you have accomplished and what you have to say.
Thanks again, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I've fwd #38 to OM and confronted him about boundaries.
So, has he responded to you yet? I understand that the two of you are friends, but I really think after this that you should not have any more discussions with him b/c he has already told you that it was one-side. So, he is keeping his a$$ covered. There is another thing to think about also and that is he will likely show it or forward it to your W and that will not go over well with her. His wife may open his email if you sent it to his house, which exposing what is going on between him and your wife may have to be an option to consider if things don't stop immediately. There are so many things to consider when doing anything like sending an email or discussing the matter with him. But until you see how or if he responds to what you sent, I would not include him in any of your DB work. If, at a later time, you have to expose the EA, then we will discuss that then, but for now, I think it would be best not to discuss it with him. He is only going to deny anything on his part, like he did before. Which I don't believe and don't trust him, however, you are not going to get any "help" from him. If you were getting the message of #38 across to him and how you feel about the vacation, and how they talk together, etc., then I think it might be okay this time, but wouldn't do anything else until later.
Quote:
I'm working on myself and spending time with my kids and taking each of them on special dates now and they really love it and are appreciative too.
That is really great! They will feel so special that they have daddy all to themselves. It also gets you out of the house, give her "space" and makes for a closer relationship with your kids. Good job!
Quote:
I'm just wondering if I should cut off all relationships with our fellowship group becos that is what she is going to do but it is the only group we have now and they will be suspicious and the OM is still in the group.
In what sense are you referring to a "fellowship group"? Is this a church related group. That is when the word fellowship is usually used is why I asked. Also, has she said that she is going to stop going? Why do you think the group will be suspicious? Is it b/c she has been flirting openly with OM there? Is the OM's wife there also? I know, a lot of questions, but trying to learn more about the stitch. I want to hear your answers, but I will go ahead and say this about my first thoughts. If attending the group is causing problems.....then stop going. Even if it is a church fellowship activity, don't go. You can go to another church and get involved there. If this is some type of club or civic organization, I will say the same thing. If this is causing problems in the M and if OM attends......the smart thing to do is remove yourselves from the environment. Anybody or anyplace that causes your wife to be tempted or struggles with the idea of the OM being there or presents problems between the two of you.....don't go. It would be crazy to presist in attending knowing that she thinks she is in love with OM. There are too many opportunities and other people and groups of new friends that you can meet and become a part of them. You do not have to contine attending where you and wife will be uncomfortable. If the group gets suspicious just b/c she stops going....then I doubt they are "Christians" and are just looking for something to gossip about. Perhaps they have seen the look in her eyes and noticed the body language. You know, people give themselves away and don't even realize it. If OM is stupid enough to actually tell the group why she stops attending, then he isn't much of a man.....much less a friend. But let me know more about this group and why you said what you did, okay?
I am so glad that you are going to work on yourself and work at the MR. While thinking about the boundaries and what you will not tollerate living in/with, I hope you will make a list of goals for yourself. Just a few to start out with. Make short term goals and ones that are "attainable". For an example, what do you have planned for getting a life over the weekend? Are there any special events coming up in the near future? Where would you like to see yourself.....as far as your physical appearance in a month from now? Is there a particular bad habit you want to break? Just some things you want to work on. Maybe have some short term and then some long term goals. Don't say, I want my wife to love me again. Make them about "you", not about her. Of course, that is the result of your goals, but focus on yourself b/c you have a hard road ahead of you and you will need to stay on course.
Remember to keep any list of goals, boundaries, or DBing, put away from your wife. These are personal and for you only.
If you do not want to snoop and find out for sure that she is or isn't having an EA, that is fine. You live with what you can. However, I would go by the Do's and Don'ts list b/c she told you she hated you and there has to be a reason behind her saying that. Whatever her reason, that list should work. However, if you see that she is getting worse in her behavior and acting more moody or showing ugly ways.....you may need to try to find out what is going on. We can talk more about that later. As I have told you, Puppy Dog Tails is good to help b/c he has been down that road and he shoots from the hip with his advice.
I will be around this weekend if you want to talk more. Most people are busy and there aren't as many posting, so don't get discouraged if you don't see a lot of activity on here. But I am usually close by. I do hope you will stay as busy as possible when she is there at the house. And, if she acts as if she wants to watch TV with you, or be in the same room, that is fine and dandy. However, if she makes her way into another room to get distance between you, then that is your clue. If she is on the computer.....and you walk into the room....notice if she closes the screen she was on as soon as you walk into the room. If she does, it is a sign she is up to no good. Probably emailing of IMing the OM. If she goes outside or somewhere "private", she may be calling him on her cell. Of course, she can TM him anywhere at any time. If she makes up some excuse to leave the house and is gone longer than it should take to do what she said, she probably is meeting him someplace. These are a few signs to watch for.
Okay, talk to you later. Hope you have a peaceful night.
Take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
whatever it takes to help. But, you have got to continue to come here and work with us by posting and cooperating......okay? Is it a deal?