I have been brwosing the forum for about 4 months now, just got registered and decided I needed some more specific advice to my sitch. Hope this isn't too long and discourages everybody from reading through it all!
Here it is:
I think it all started with me getting into a depression about my career outlook. That was somewhere late 06 I think, it's hard to tell because you just can't pinpoint when that stuff starts. I was just not sure where it all was going and so I felt kinda lost. I now realize it had all the signs of an MLC, but not as deep, so I call it a "mini MLC". Anyways, this most likely caused me to not pay as much attention to my wife as I used to and I think she took this as rejection from me. I guess I did feel her distancing herself from me, because my "feeling lost" got worse. (around spring/summer 07) I am honestly convinced that somehow I knew that she wasn't the cause of it, but I can understand how she would take my behaviour as rejection. Also around this time, she is working on starting up a new business on the side of her full-time job. This is causing her to spend a lot of what used to be our "free time", i.e. evenings and weekends working, leaving little time for us to do stuff together (esp with 4 yr old twins)
About August 07, I start getting out of it, because I realize I can just enjoy the present without getting overly concerned about the future (as far as my career is concerned). My wife actually opened a shop that month and I can contribute by working on building stuff there, doing the lighting, painting, etc.. etc.. This makes me feel better because I can contribute in a more direct way instead of just keepng the kids out of the way at home, which is what I had one before that (Spring to Aug). However, my interactions with my wife started feeling a little off. I do all this work in her shop, which is her dream BTW, so I thought that would make her feel really good. But she didn't seem very grateful, at least that's how it felt to me. She would keep a blog about the progress on the place and there was no mention of me anywhere in there.
I should also mention that she has been a woman of "full figure" since we met. This never bothered me, I always thought she was attractive. But she had a very low self-esteem due to this and when I would say that she looked good, she would tell me that I am just saying that because I feel have to since she is my wife. Since early 07, she has been on a medication that makes her lose appetite and therefore weight (she lost 70lbs!). It seemed like her self-confidence was getting better and better and she would enjoy dressing up, which is something she never really felt like even though I tried to encourage her by helping her find clothes that look good on her. I do tend to think this boost in self-confidence had something to do with me "snapping"out of my "mini MLC". Who knows....
Another little sidenote: Every couple of years, I have to travel overseas for work for a couple of months. Sometimes it's 4-5 trips of 1 or 2 weeks over 3 months, sometimes it's 1 trip of 2 months. Nov and Dec 07 were gonna be a 2 month trip for me for work. In Oct 07, she told me ILYBNILWY. This comes as a complete shock to me, esp since I was just starting to feel better about life and everything. She said that she still sees me as her very best friend ever, someone that understands her better than anyone, but when we ML, she feels like ML to her brother. The feelings just aren't there anymore and this is making her extremely uncomfortable. She said that she can't turn her feelings back on like a light switch as I did.
So I go on my 2 month trip and it is literally he!! having to be away in this situation. We email and text and she told me that it all came about because I wasn't supportive of her business and several other things. I will honestly admit that I was a little pessimistic about the business initiative because it didn't seem that the market she's trying to reach is there in that location, but mostly because it would take away a lot of our free time to spend as a family. But once I could contribute (building stuff, lights etc...) I did feel better about it and thought it was very worthwile to try. I email her several long letters back explaining my viewpoints and how I was trying to support her. She keeps responding that I say all the right things now, but it still isn't bringing her feelings back.
When I come back (late Dec 07), she seems really close and loving and we ML several times until Feb 07, when she tells me that it really doesn't feel right and she just can't ML anymore. From Feb till June we basically live a friendship (or roommates) kind of life during which we always have lots of fun when we do stuff together and with the kids. I am trying to be upbeat as much as possible, to the point where she asks: "How can you be so happy in this situation?". I just tell her that I am trying to show her how I can be to live with (after my depression) and who wants to live with a person that's miserable?? However, every couple of weeks R talks happen during which she says nothing has changed as far as her feelings are concerned. Late June she told me she found a house to rent (available until Dec she said) and was going to live there. We would share the kids and we split all of our bills except for gas money, car insurance and payment, and the kids daycare.
The first couple of weeks, we have very little contact and I am trying as hard as I can to not pursue her (been reading here quite a bit at that point! After a while she contacts me more and more, we go on dates and have a great time (she says so too). Every time we see each other, she hugs me tight and kisses me. Lately, she asks for my advice on business stuff, then even takes my advice (which I took as a pretty good step forward). Then last Monday, she brings up R talk and says that her feelings still haven't changed. I am really convinced that she herself doesn't understand why this is. She seems to care for me very deeply and even says so, but the intimate feelings are not there. I also don't think she's happier now than before. For one thing, she's having trouble paying all of her bills for her house in addition to starting the business that's costing money right now. She also asked if I would want her to move back in and be roommates again, to which I responded that I would want her to move back in because she WANTS to move back in. I sort of broke down a little bit at that point and told her that I still love her very much and that I miss her and that the door is always open if she wants to come back.
Last weekend, I went out with the kids and my SIL, my BIL and all of their kids (my wife was working at her shop). We stayed for dinner at my MIL and FIL's house with SIL. They are asking me how it's going and I tell them how it is going. They all say that they don't understand what she's doing and that they think I have unbelievable patience (good to have for DB'íng! ) I defend her by saying that I have done things wrong too and that W and I both share the blame for being in this sitch. But now, her parents and sister are getting into it and take my side, calling her to tell her she's making a big mistake, that she can't take care of herself (bills) etc.. etc.. THis leads to tonight when W tells me that she feels like I have been complaining behind her back... Feels like a HUGE setback compared to recent weeks...
Need some advice and hopefully encouragement that I am on the right way.. Does this sound like WAW? She does try to spend time with the kids, esp lately. Or is it a MLC? I keep getting the feeling she's going through something similar to me, except I never felt the relationship was the casue of my unhappiness.
My W is a true WAW. I'm not sure about the MLC thing. Mine has said that she wants to be friends and that ML to me is suffocating. Nice for the self-esteem, huh?
I didn't read anything in your sitch about any OM; is this the case or do you have any suspicion about it? If not, our sitches are totally different.
Having said that, we do have something in common and you need to know this. My in-laws love me and what I'm doing. Remember, though that they are NOT DB'ing and will pass along to your W whatever they feel like saying. You may not have been talking about the R behind your W's back; but that is how your W perceives it, so it's true. You have to stop giving the in-laws information; it WILL get back to your W. Any word from them in the manner you describe will set you back. don't worry, it's normal. I did the same thing in my M earlier in prior episodes. Back in Mar, we separated and I disclosed everything to my MIL and that made it back to my W. Caused lots of problems.
If you guys decide to reconcile, you don't want your family tainted with knowledge of things that might cloud their impressions of the both of you.
Try to remain as silent as possible around the In-laws. If you have to politely decline to be involved in talks with them about your M.
Hope this helps and welcome to the boards. Lots of support and help her.
I cant give u much advice due to not doing to well myself. But u have to leave family out of it. It will backfire on u. As hard as it is u just have to do that. If u have DB or DR, do the find what 180's u need to be doing, and start doing them. That will make the biggest difference, and mean them. You know the things she complains about, maybe u not spending enough quality time with the kids, u dont do house work like she likes it, etc.
Just think hard about all that and do the 180's, then the hardest part is the goals. All of it is to make U a better person, maybe she will see it! You will get some good advice here, and there are some truly wonderful friends here. They will help u, some days are slow here, especially weekends, Just hang in there and really work on ur 180's. And dont pursue. Good luck and will be checking on u!
Me-39 STBXW-42 together 20yrs M-17 Kids-2 D-18 S-16 Bomb-96 Bomb-2005 bomb- 3/2008 for a year Separated 5/08 Filing in July Today.... Slowly learning a new life!
I had read in another post that the family getting involved is not a good thing. The thing is, I didn't engage in any way, they were asking and so I told how things were going. There are probably some things I shouldn't have told them tho... And I have told W that I was sorry, that I shouldn't have told them (about her financial situation among others). It sounded like they lectured her about that and about our M. I guess I will just have to tell them to ask her if they ask me about her.
About the 180's, I just made a list of 180's I have done: - I spend a lot more time with the kids and I take them out to do fun stuff. She notices this, because about once a month she will say that she wants to take them to something fun without me because "I always get to do fun stuff with them".
- I compliment her a lot on her looks, which I didn't do barely at all before. She does look incredibly HOT!!
- I don't constantly criticize her ways of conducting her business, which I did before and she has told me that I am always looking at the negative. Now, I tell her every time I think she does something good (before, I always THOUGHT that, but never said it to her)
- I let her go out on her own if she wants and I am not difficult about it. This one I started before she moved out, so now it's not really relevant anymore. I used to be difficult about this, because I always felt bad if I went out by myself, so I never really did. This caused me to think that she shouldn't either. Now, I realize that when you have a good time by yourself, you recharge and feel good when you get home and then you also don't feel frustrated if the W goes out by herself.
I don't think there is an OM. Early on, I acted a little jealous and she said that she doesn't have any romantic feelings for anyone, so not to worry. I do trust that statement. She said a couple of months ago that it sucks that she can't ML to me. I always thought that was a weird statement, not sure what she means with that.
Re the knowledge that will taint my W, I did not say much to the in-laws, and certainly nothing that has changed their opinion of her. My W has always been kind of the odd-one out in her family. My SIL is the favorite.
She says she feels like EVERYONE is against her and that she is trying what she thinks is right. I told her that I know that and that I am there for her, to help her.
Hi Sam, I'm Sandi.....an almost WAW. I had been where your wife was for a very long time without OM involved at all, so it doesn't have to mean there is another person. However, with her new look......it will be very tempting to her b/c you can bet she is getting the attention from other men. She will like that a lot since she had low self-esteem!
I don't know that I agree to let her come home as room mates b/c she is having a hard time with bills. Sounds to me that she is just using you and she will not respect you. It is most important for a woman to admire the man she is in love with. Therefore, that needs to be your goal. She cannot feel attracted to a man that she does not admire and respect.....it is impossible. She may feel sorry for a man or she may feel friendship.....but she will not have sexual attraction without the respect and admiration. Not, that a woman cannot respect or admire a man without having sexual feelings....I don't mean that....but where married love and sex is concerned...she must have those two ingrediants.
So, start with setting a goal of self improvements. I'm sure there is something you can find to improve about yourself. Maybe you need to just change your looks up a bit (but don't go crazy). Buy some different clothes that look really sharp on you or get a new hair cut.....get some advice from some professionals....but never ask your W. Don't say anything to her about your changes.....just do them.
She needs to miss you in her life. So, don't run to her to rescue her from her problems. That is what you will be doing if you allow her to move back into the house b/c she needs you to share her expenses. She needs to see you being unavailable to her. A human being wants what they think they can't have. Right? So, don't be so easy for her!
You need to act "cool", as the kids say, and not needy. I see a lot of "needy" in your post (which is okay here, but not in front of her). You broke down in front of her once, but try very hard not to let that happen again. If you feel it coming on, get away fast. You don't want her pity, you want her admiration. I would being the one to make the contacts. If she wants to contact you, then fine, but be sure you are the one that breaks the conversation first. It is all in the book by Michelle. I have posted a long list of do's and don'ts time after time, so you probably have already seen that. If you will go by that list, it will make a huge difference!
Exercise is one of the best things you can do for frustration and worry right now. Plus, you get other benifits! Stay on a good diet, sleep enough, and get out and get a life by staying busy at something regardless of how small it may seem.
If you have been around the board for about 4 months, then you have read the advice given to others. It should not be new to you. You just need to apply it to your stitch now.
Good luck and take care, Sandi
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, thanks for responding! I read a lot of your posts to others and was hoping you would see my thread!
Re her new look, she has changed a lot and earlier this year, she has been telling me about a guy asking her out, an older guy commenting on her, or being "checked out" by someone. That did bother me and that was when I was acting a litte jealous. She did tell me on multiple occasions that she has no interest in anybody else and the guys asking her out and checking her out are all old guys that she thinks are disgusting. She also keeps saying that she still does not feel very attractive. Her own words were that her low self-esteem would keep her from trying anything for sure. At least for the events she has told me about (all happened more than 4-5 months ago and she has told me about them right after) I know this to be true, they are old and I could not see her being interested in them at all. I realize now that I sound very naive, but we have always been very honest with each other and I trust her when she told me that she is not romantically interested in anybody right now. Besides, she TOTALLY kills herself with work for the past year and a half, so she doesn't even have time. I think her honesty is also why she has shared her ILYBNILWY early, before she saw D as the only solution. She has mentioned a D once, and that was last Dec. Since then, she has maintained that being on her own for a while and just go on dates with me might help her find her feelings back.
Does the above sound like a WAW or MLC? I am not sure. Any ideas?
Re her moving back in, I think I did not explain what she said very well. She first told me she has hit "rock-bottom" financially, then later on she said she keeps going through scenarios in her head about what would happen if she moved back in. Her literal words were: "I mean, you wouldn't want me to move back in as a roommate, now would you? You want me to move back in as a wife." I don't think she was asking me if she could move back in, even if it is as a roommate, I think she was asking me how I would want her to be when she moves back in.
Re exercising, I was in real good shape in college, then after I got married, it all went away and I became overweight, my W always told me that I wear it well as opposed to her. After the boys were born, I decided I had to get in better shape so I could be healthy and do stuff with the kids. So that was 2004. I have been amping up my exercising a LOT since the bomb and have lost a lot of weight (not as much as her tho), but I do think I look good. My W has told me on multiple occasions that her friends and family say I look good (even HOT from her sister). A couple of times -mainly before she moved out ($$ situation)- she has picked out some clothes for me that she thought would look good on me. I know the exercising is an excellent stress reliever and it works for me!
Re the rescuing her, I have not done that, nor have I any intention to do so. I did tell her that I thought that she should focus her attention differently within her business so that she could make more money. Would that be bad? She did ask me for my advice. The next day she called me up and said that she had followed my advice and refocused. When she picks up the kids here she wants to show me her work to see what I think. I took all of those things as positive, because she hadn't done that in months. Especially asking me for my advice concerning her business, since she said I was always so negative about it.
On a final note, reading your post I do see that I could be a lot more detached. But that's why I came here, so I could get some perspective! I though I was doing OK, not great, but not bad either. I had in my mind that if I could be her best friend, to be there for her when she comes for help, not contacting her myself, but be there if she needs me, that that was the best approach. Now, I know that I can still do a lot better. I just need to be less available for her. I did take a vacation with the boys for 2 weeks without her, that did seem to make the phone calls and texts start coming in.
This week has been a disaster however, it still feels like I went back several months... Every time a setback happens, it seems like that will be the final straw that brings on the D.
Thanks a lot to all responders for your encouragement!!
After a while she contacts me more and more, we go on dates and have a great time (she says so too). Every time we see each other, she hugs me tight and kisses me. Lately, she asks for my advice on business stuff, then even takes my advice (which I took as a pretty good step forward). Then last Monday, she brings up R talk and says that her feelings still haven't changed. I am really convinced that she herself doesn't understand why this is. She seems to care for me very deeply and even says so, but the intimate feelings are not there. I also don't think she's happier now than before. For one thing, she's having trouble paying all of her bills for her house in addition to starting the business that's costing money right now. She also asked if I would want her to move back in and be roommates again, to which I responded that I would want her to move back in because she WANTS to move back in. I sort of broke down a little bit at that point and told her that I still love her very much and that I miss her and that the door is always open if she wants to come back.
