Where do I go from here? pt. 2

[tpaschal]

Hello, all!

I haven't posted in a long time---too busy, too tired, and too depressed, but I have been following others' situations and praying for peace and healing for all of us.

My H is still the same, still being a jerk, still with the 22 yr. old OW (now they are going to look at houses together, before the D is even final, before we've had any convos about where the kids and I will live---lovely.)

The D trial date is set for Sept. 4, though there's a chance it may be postponed again. I hope so.

The kids have really been struggling lately, as he has NOT been the poster boy for fatherhood. Big surprise.

S9 wrote him a "letter" that I've been holding on to for a couple of months, and I wrote an accompanying letter and have been praying and waiting to see if there would be a right time to give it to him. It's been on my heart a lot the last few days weeks, especially since the kids got back from a very difficult 5 day vacation with H (no OW---he's been lying to the lawyers and the courts all along about her involvement), and think this may be the time.

But I would love some input and feedback about the content and whether it's wise to give it to him.

My letter to H to follow in next post. Thanks for any thoughts you may have.

[tpaschal]

TPaschal's letter to H:

Dear H,

First, let me say thank you for our three bright, beautiful, loving children. They are something wonderful we share that no amount of anger, disappointment, or hurt will ever be able to erase. They are proof that the majority of the life we shared together was loving and happy and beautiful, even if you've forgotten that or convinced yourself otherwise. They have taught me a lot this past year and a half---a lot about myself, about the joys of being a parent, and about unconditional love.


I've come to realize that I do have unconditional love for you. I know all the wonderful parts of you, and all the dark parts of you, and I love all of you. I'm sorry I didn't figure out sooner how to show you the depth of my love. Loving you unconditionally doesn't mean I will be a doormat, or that I won't be hurt or get angry at you, or even that I will sit around waiting and pining for you. I am moving forward with my own life. But it DOES mean that my love for you isn't based on whether or not you love me anymore, or whether or not we stay married. My love for you just IS.


However, my love for you doesn't blind me to the fact that our kids are hurting. I don't think you realize how much.


D5 is starting to forget you. Not forget who you are, but forget the importance you once had in her life. When you first left, she cried for you, wanting her Daddy, and asked all the time when you were coming home to her. She still talks about missing you but it's becoming less real to her, almost like you living here with her is only a vaguely remembered dream. She was hardly more than a toddler when you left, so in another year or two she won't have any clear memories left of that time in her life, of you being an everyday Dad to her. That is heartbreaking (because what 5 year old child doesn't deserve to have both parents together loving, taking care of, and living with them on a daily basis?), but in some ways it's less painful than what D14 and S9 are going through. They're too old to forget. They'll always know what they're missing.


D14 is at a difficult stage of life right now, and she would be butting heads with both of us even if you lived at home, but she and I have also had some real bonding times over the past several months. She has had some very mature conversations with me about her thoughts and feelings. D14 adored you and had you on a pedestal, even if she didn't often show it. Even though she whined about us being too strict, and moaned about S9 and D5 being pests, and persistently and stubbornly questioned and chafed against the rules, she felt completely secure in the knowledge that her parents loved her and each other, and felt completely secure and supported by her stable home life.


Now D14 feels like her entire world, her entire foundation, her entire belief system, has been yanked out from under her. She (and S9, as well) still cannot comprehend how you could suddenly say that you didn't love Mommy anymore when everything she saw and knew for the first 12 years and 8 months of her life completely contradicted that. Now D14 truly believes that you do not love her anymore, either. Yes, she can be a difficult, melodramatic, hormonal teenager, but she still believes this even when she isn't being dramatic. I reassure her that of course you love her, but sometimes she crawls in my lap and cries like a baby because she doesn't think so and because she misses her Daddy.


But S9........he is the one who truly breaks my heart. And he is in an impossible situation. Maybe you think that S9 loves you more or accepts the changes more than the girls do, but the truth is, he is just as hurt and confused and even angry as they are. But he has a totally different personality than the girls do and doesn't approach things the same way. As you know, he has always been the sensitive, thoughtful, empathetic one. He wants to win your approval and your love and wants to make you happy. He also sees how upset you get at D14 when she makes waves, so he just doesn't voice all that he's really feeling.


The kids love you and want to spend time with you, even D14, who often acts as though she doesn't, and they tell me they do have some good times with you, but they say they miss the Daddy they knew from before. They can sense a difference in you and in how you feel about them and relate to them. They ask me why that is. They ask me why you are choosing being with someone else over being with them, why you don't see them very much anymore, and why you sometimes act like you don't really want them around when they do spend time with you.


I don't have answers for those questions. How could I? I don't understand it myself. Even if you demonize me and blame me for every single argument or hurt feeling or misunderstanding or miscommunication that ocurred in our entire 20 years together, that does not explain how you can treat your three bright, beautiful children this way. It does not explain how or why you could physically leave them and emotionally distance yourself from them. It does not explain how you could make D14 think that she is even partially at fault for you leaving, or why you think it is okay to tell your young kids that the grandmother they love and depend on tried to kill herself many years ago. I can't begin to tell you how disturbed they are at this. I know how much that incident traumatized you when you were a teenager, and it obviously still affects you deeply, so why would you think a 14 year old, a 9 year old or a 5 year old could cope with this knowledge? Where is your common sense as a grown man and a supposedly responsible physician? I don't ask these things in anger, but in bewilderment.


I've shared similar feelings and asked similar questions several times over the past year and a half, but I've also held my tongue on several occasions because I didn't want to anger you further. I still had hope that we could restore our marriage and I didn't want to cause any more rifts between us, but I am done with thinking that way.


I still believe absolutely, 100 percent, that we could still restore our marriage, and have a new relationship that is better, stronger, and more loving than the the old one ever was, but I have realized that for right now, at least, you aren't able to see that, and in fact may never be able to see it. You would be our hero and the most loved man in the world if you came home, but I know that there is nothing I can say that will convince you of that and nothing I can do to force you to give me, our marriage, and our family another chance. I stll pray that you will come to that decision on your own, but that is up to you. For now, at least, you no longer seem to value the same things you used to, so I have turned my feelings for you over to God and am moving forward with life, both for my own health and happiness and for the kids'.


You may look at this letter and the following one from S9 as emotional blackmail, or as an attempt by me to convince you to come back. If that is what you think, then I will feel sad for you, because that is not the case. Giving you this has nothing to do with me, and everything to do with your children. I will not stay quiet anymore when it comes to the kids just because I'm afraid to anger you. You need to know the pain to the kids your actions are causing, and if you react in anger instead of with care, concern, and contemplation, then that is your choice.


S9 has been wanting to give you his "letter" for a while, but I held back because I wasn't sure how you would react to it, and I didn't want it to negatively impact your relationship with him. I've been praying about when would be the right time to give it to you, and when I asked him a couple of nights ago how he felt about it, he said, "Yeah, I think it's about time. Maybe we should have even given it to him a long time ago."


Maybe S9 was right to want to give it to you earlier. He is sometimes a very wise little boy. From the way he normally talks and acts, you might never know that these things are percolating in his mind, but I swear to you that I did not put these words into his mouth. These are all his own thoughts, words, and feelings.


I don't know if you are at a place emotionally or spiritually where you will be able to read this letter or S9's and take something real from them, or if you will reject them totally. I hope you can see that both S9's letter and mine were borne out of love for you.


Sincerely,
TPaschal

[tpaschal]

S9's letter to his father (with my opening and closing remarks):

H,

This is S9's "letter" to you that I referred to in my letter.


It is a kind of stream of consciousness monologue from S9 on the evening of Thursday, April 3, 2008. I'm not sure if you remember, but you did come over from 3:30 til 5pm and spent the time working in the yard. The yardwork was very needed and much appreciated, but the kids did miss spending time with you.


You left a little before 5pm to take a load of yard waste to the recycling center. S9 was sad about not getting to be with you, and asked if you were taking him to soccer practice that night. I told him I didn't know, but he could call you if he wanted. He called and you told him you couldn't do it and said Mommy would have to take him. He was pretty disappointed.


A little while later I was sitting on the couch proofreading a report for D14 on the laptop. S9 was sitting with me watching TV. He started asking me why Daddy didn't hang out with him that afternoon, and why Daddy wouldn't take him to soccer. I told him we should really be thankful for your help in the yard and said I wasn't sure about soccer because I hadn't talked to you about it. I asked S9 what he was thinking. He was quiet for a minute and then started talking.


His first comment surprised me and really made an impression on me, and I immediately typed it on the bottom of the page I was proofing for D14. When S9 kept talking, I just started typing everything he said without him knowing it.


It didn't come out in one long flow. S9 thinks about things very deeply, and it sometimes takes him a little while to put words to his thoughts so that they come out like he wants them to. His comments started out slowly with him saying just a few sentences at a time. I didn't want to interrupt his thought process, so I didn't say too much. Sometimes I would nod or say "mm hmm" to acknowledge that I was listening, or would occasionally ask, "what do you mean?" S9 would be quiet for a few seconds, or sometimes as long as a couple of minutes so that I thought he was finished and had gone back to concentrating on his tv show, but then he would start talking again. After a little while it started coming out more and more quickly.


After several minutes he asked if I was typing what he was saying. I said yes, and then he started addressing his comments directly to you instead of talking about you in the third person.

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/
/
It's like Star Wars, you know, where Anakin was "light" and then he turned to "dark." It's just like Daddy. You know, when he was with us he was in the light and now he's in the dark. You know, just like the Chancellor turned Anakin to the dark side, it's like the girl turned Daddy to the dark side.
/
/
Anakin was tricked to going to the dark side just like the girl tricked Daddy to going with her.
/
/
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I said, wow. Those are big thoughts. I said I understand what you are saying, but it isn't fair to blame everything that's happened on her. I said that Daddy and I had made mistakes, too. And that just like Anakin, we were all grown-ups who could have made better choices.
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/
/
Yeah, but don't you want to fix it? Don't you want Daddy to come back so you can both fix it?
/
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I said yes.
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/
So why doesn't Daddy want to fix it? Why did he just leave instead?
/
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I said I didn't know. I said it was that whole thing about choices.
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/
/
/
That's why it's like Anakin cause if the Chancellor had left Anakin alone and not tried to turn him to the dark side, Anakin wouldn't have made the bad choice. He would have stayed in the light and not turned bad.
/
/
It's like a bad spirit and a good spirit are at war and the bad spirit is telling Daddy to do bad things and is winning and the good spirit is losing and surrendering.
/
/
/
/
Daddy probably doesn't realize it, but a lot of people he knows like his friends from before and all are sad, and, you know. Sad that he's turning to be a bad person.
/
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/
/
It makes me feel really really bad that he might have some more kids. It's like he doesn't want to be our real dad anymore. That's what makes me the saddest.
/
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/
It's really important that Daddy isn't doing what God wanted for him. I think maybe God's disappointed with him. We pray every night to say thanks about all the good stuff that's happened and all the other good stuff we want to happen, and we pray for Daddy and I even pray by myself for the girl to remember that he already has kids and a wife and she shouldn't separate him from them. Good people would not do that to a family but bad people would. Bad people might think divorce is okay, but it's not.
/
/
/
And I'm really sad that we are going to have to move away from our house and our friends and maybe even our school. It's like when we moved away from (friend's name). I don't want to go through that again.
/
/
I just, well, can't live like this. I don't want to move to another house. I'm worried that we won't have enough money to pay for a house or car or other things. You say we'll all be okay, but we need our Dad, not just our Mom. There should be a big connection with a dad and his kids, and now it feels like the connection has been cut in half and he connected with the girl instead. And now he'll probably have kids with her and have a big connection with those kids instead. That's what happened to some of my friends at school.
/
It's so sad because Daddy already has three kids and he probably thinks now that we can take care of ourselves. He probably doesn't care that much if we even live or get injured or anything.
/
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At this point I told him that Daddy still loved him and no matter what else happened, Daddy would always love him.
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/
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Yeah, I love him a lot, too, but that's what makes it sadder because Daddy even betrayed his own parents and they're really sad and disappointed in him and I wouldn't want that to happen to you Mommy and I would never want to turn into that kind of person.
/
/
And when people get married the preacher asks if you promise to spend your whole life with that person, and Daddy said yes and now look what happened. It's like, why did he even get married or have kids if he didn't want to be with us for always?
/
/
It's like we can't handle this and we turned into those people whose parents are gone. And it's like Daddy promised on his marriage that he wouldn't do that and now he's doing it anyway and it's really sad that this is my only life and this is how it's turned out and this is how it's going to be.
/
/
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This is when S9 asked me if I was typing what he was saying, and I said yes, so he started addressing his remarks directly to you.
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/
We're really disappointed and it makes me sad and it makes me cry. D14 and D5 are pretty mad at you, but really they miss you a lot. Mommy still loves you and misses you a lot, too. And it makes me sad to see Mommy sad. And now you didn't see us at Easter and you probably won't see us at the Banquet and now I don't even know if you'll see us at Christmas or New Year's Eve anymore. And even when we go see you it seems like you don't really, you know, want to be with us too much. It just seems like you're always too busy with other things or other people instead of your kids.
/
We just hope you come back because we really miss you. When I see shooting stars most of the times I wish you would come back home. We really miss you a lot.
/
But it makes me sad cause it's like you are being mean a lot and telling us you're going to sell our games and our horse and D14's cell phone whenever you get mad at us. And it's like you're lying all the time and hiding stuff but we know the truth so why do you keep doing it? Like about the girl living with you at your apartment because all her clothes and shoes and stuff are there. And it really bothers me because I know you're lying and you know it but you do it anyway. You can still stay in the light but it's like the girl is luring you to the dark side like the Chancellor lured Anakin to be Darth Vader but you don't have to go there.
/
And there's a lot of other things I think about, like you betrayed all your promises and your family and even your own brother and a lot of other people. It's like the girl is like tricking you and making you think she's a good person but a good person wouldn't take you away from us and she's really confusing you and it's like you're in a box but you can still fight back and escape.
/
She could have gotten someone else who didn't have any kids, so can't you come back? Because there are a lot of other people she could find who aren't married and don't have kids and I think she just wants us to go away.
/
She just wants us to disappear so she can have you to herself but you don't realize what we're going through and what we have to do.
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/
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I asked S9 why he thought some of these things, especially about the girl not wanting them.
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/
Cause that's what happened to all the divorced kids I know at school. As soon as the dad gets a new girlfriend or a new wife, he doesn't see his kids much anymore. It's like even if the new girl acts nice at first, pretty soon she gets tired of the kids coming over or the dad being gone to see his kids cause they're not even really her kids. And my friend's dad had a new baby with the new girl and he almost never gets to see his dad anymore. The dad is too busy with the new family and it's like he forgot all about his first kids, even though he promised that wouldn't happen.
/
/
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I asked S9 if he would like to talk about some of these things with Daddy, instead of just to me.
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/
I kind of just don't have the energy to say it to Daddy and it's just that sometimes I can't even remember all the stuff I want to say but I can say it now and maybe we could make this a letter and I can say it in the letter.
/
And if he reads this and he cares maybe he will want to come back and it would be the best miracle ever. Maybe he'll realize that we all still love him and he still has a chance to come home. The girl could find someone else. I hope that will happen right away for her. She could find somebody her age who maybe just finished college and would be good for her and that's what everybody wants even Daddy's friends and all his relatives.
/
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I gave S9 a big hug and thanked him for sharing his thoughts and feelings with me. He asked when we would give you his letter, and I said I didn't know. I said we would pray about knowing when would be the right time.
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The following remarks from S9 were made at bedtime on Thursday, April 17, 2008.

As I was putting him to bed he realized that it was Thursday but Daddy hadn't come to see them. I explained that you had called and you had a big test to study for and weren't going to be able to come that day. I had decided to wait to say anything, because if they didn't realize you were MIA, I wasn't going to disappoint them by reminding them.

S9 was sad and I talked with him a little about how he was feeling. I encouraged him to call you if he wanted to, but he didn't want to. I told him it was okay to tell you when he's sad, but he said he didn't have the courage. We talked a little about courage and what it meant. I asked him why he didn't
have the courage.

S9 said, "It's kind of like......when Daddy was here there was a big wall around us. You know, kind of like Daddy was a big wall of protection around the house, and you know, around all of us. Daddy was a wall of protection around the family. But now that Daddy is gone, the wall is gone, and I just don't feel.........."

"Safe?"

"Yeah, like I don't feel as safe anymore."

I told him I understood how he felt, and said that sometimes I felt that way, too, especially in the beginning when you were first gone. I reassured him that we were going to be okay, that I was there to take care of him and keep him safe, and I wouldn't let anything happen to him or our family.

S9 said, "Yeah, but we're not a real family anymore."

I told him we were, that he and D14 and D5 and I were a family, and that was a real family, and that you still loved him and were part of his family even if you weren't living with us.

He said, "Yeah, but we're not a whole family anymore. We're broken."

Then S9 said, "You know, it's kind of like a big body. Like a big robot body or just a big body kind of thing. Daddy was the head of the body, and me and you and D14 and D5 and Grandma and Grandpa were the hands and legs and arms and other parts of the body. But when Daddy left it was like he took the head off of the body. And now the rest of the body is falling apart, like the other parts of the body don't know what to do anymore without the head, so it doesn't work anymore and it's just falling apart."

Of course, by this time I had tears but tried not to show it. I told S9 that I knew how sad and scary it was, but that we would be okay.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

These are just a couple of the things that S9 has shared with me over the past year and a half. He wants to talk to you about how he's feeling, but for whatever reason he hasn't been able to. He talks about not having enough courage, or enough energy. D14 is acting out her anger in unhealthy ways, and S9 is keeping his feelings bottled up too much of the time and then it spills out in bouts of crying or angry temper tantrums.

I would like to ask you to please think about seeing Dr. Whatshisname again (on your own, not with me.) You and I need to find a way to co-parent peacefully and work together to help the kids get through all their hurt and anger and confusion. Dr. Whatshisname has been doing this for a long time, and I think he would have some good, workable ideas about how to help make that happen.


You were a wonderful father for 12 years, so please don't be the kind of selfish person who puts himself and his own needs above those of his children for the rest of his life. The kids are the ones who suffer for it over and over and over again, even as adults, and your children don't deserve to suffer through that. No child does. I've seen that happen too often, and I'm sure you have, too. I'm afraid that if you don't find some way to rebuild a real relationship with your children soon, it will be too late to repair some of the damage, and you (and they) will end up regretting it for the rest of your life.


Sincerely,
TPaschal

[tpaschal]

I know the letters to H are a long read, but I really would love some feedback on whether or not to give them to him. I'm thinking I should maybe give him the one from S9, and cut down the length of the one from me considerably, or cut it altogether.

Anyone?

[CMNM]

Hi T!
Welcome back! I understand the absense. I have yet to lock a thread; I use it to work through some things and then just get tired of being mired in all of this yet again.

Anyway-

My opinion, for what it is worth, is to give the typed version of the letter back to your son and let him do what he wants with it. Take your stuff off of it and tell him that it is a copy of the words he spoke to you that night.

If you involve yourself in it it will seem like emotional blackmail and the message will not get through.

As for your letter--- Don't. It is great that you were able to articulate your feelings, and it is good for you to do so, but you need to now follow the advice of my good friends Betsey and Meredith and put that away in a box with all of the other letters you will most likely write to him. Sweetie, there are no magic words that will bring him home. Is there anything in that letter he doesn't already know?

I hope others will chime in. From my experience, and oh man was I a letter writer, they do nothing but cause more distance. And guilt.

I'm sorry you and your chidren are still struggling so much.

Hugs,
Pam

P.S. I was just doing a report on young children of divorce, and you're right, it is said that younger children need to see the other parent at least every 3 days if a relationship will work out later on, as they do not develop the memory needed to bond with that person until age 5 or 6. Interesting, eh?

[tpaschal]

Pam,

Thanks for your reply. How are you? I've seen a couple of things you've written on other people's threads, and it sounded like you were still struggling with your xh? I'm sorry for that.

That's one of the many things I would love to hit H over the head with---he thinks that as soon as the D is finished, all his problems will be over and he will magically be happy. Sorry, a$$****, but your kids and financial responsibilities aren't going anywhere! And you haven't fixed your emotional and psychological issues, so you're still going to be miserable!! Getting rid of me isn't going to change that!!!

Ah, well. What can I do? Nothing, I know.

I will probably do as you advise. But if S9 doesn't want to hand it to H by himself (he wants H to have it, but still says he lacks courage), I will probably go ahead and snail mail it to H's office. (It might very well be intercepted if I send it via email or to H's apt.)

I wrote H one or two long letters last spring and summer, and every couple of months we seem to have very non-productive conversations about relationship stuff, but nothing since April. But I've written tons and tons of letters that I've kept just for me!!!

I did call my L this morning about paperwork and deadlines, and mentioned to the legal assistant some of the emotionally damaging things H has been saying to the kids lately. I don't know if it's too late to get court ordered counseling for H and the kids, but I'm going to try.

Thanks again for checking in on me, and thanks for the wise advice.

T

[CMNM]

Hi again T!

You know, I am not really struggling. When it seems I am, I really do have the answers in front of me all the time- I guess I just don't want to listen to the truth. I recognize that pretty quickly these days and move on.

Just like you probably will realize that you didn't need to ask about sending the letter from you--- in a few days you will realize that it wouldn't have been wise. It does help to get the feedback though.

After I posted to you I sat and thought about the fact that your kids are younger than mine, so of course it is harder to let them build their own relationship with their dad. I do think that you should talk to your son about addressing the letter himself. It would be easier than him handing it to his dad and being around for the reaction, that's for sure. But, I really do believe it should come from him. That way your H has to face the truth of it rather than get bogged down in thinking of your motivation for sending it.

Here's to a good Wed. for you, T! I have nothing to do for the first time in weeks. Well, I do have to clean. That is what I haven't been doing much of while I have been busy! I am actually looking forward to my son leaving for work (the others are gone for the day). I haven't been alone in sooooo long.

Glad you're back. I like "listening" to you.

Pam

[momof2girls]

Hi T...it has been a while!

Just my opinion, don't send the letter you wrote. It may not help and look like you are trying to guilt him out of a D. Tuck it away...I had tons of letters I wrote to H and I finally did give him one...now I know that H read it but it made no difference to him at the time...H said it sounded like I was desparate and it turned him farther away.

As far as the letter from S9. Let him decide what to do with it without any influence from you. It is so difficult for kids and getting his feelings out to you may have provided some relief. If S9 is ready to give the letter to his father then let him do so. I would just feel awful if H did not react to it the way S9 hopes, that may provide more hurt.

[forward]

T, I would not send letter either.

I've always figured you're in a timeframe similar to mine. I konw maybe it's not good to pay attention to that sort of thing but my H has filed, too. All I can say is that I am going along with it and not resisting but not assisting.

I'm actually in a pretty good mood and am in a pretty good place, too.

[tpaschal]

Momof2,

Hello! So nice to hear from you. Hope everything is going well for you.

This is so hard. It's so hard to know what to do. I gave my MC and the kids' child psychologist (who are in the same group practice) a copy of S9's letter back in early May right after S9 "wrote" it, and S9 did talk with her about it. We had all hoped that H would go in for another appt. with the MC (who I had also seen), and the MC planned to share the letter with H then. However, H never scheduled another appt.

I'm sure that H would take my letter as desperation, too, so I will not send it. But I'm still not sure about S9's letter.
Like you, I am afraid that S9 will not get the reaction he is hoping for, but he wants H to have it. I'm torn.

I will continue to pray about it.

Thanks for checkin in on me. :-)

T