I can relate to having to focus on one thing at a time. I lost my job w/in 2 months of my D becoming final. Stay focused and most importantly keep you faith and PMA up. You have to take care of you so you can get where you need to go.
My C told me that of the roughly 50% of M's that do not end up in D - about 15% of that 50% are really great partnerships. Those really great ones take time to find. Many people settle for less. I am shooting for that 15% next time - that is what it will take for me to make changes to what TC called the rhythm I have established in my life since my D 5 years ago.
And while I am finally ready to date, I am in the middle of adopting - and that is one of my highest priorities right now. My career is also important to me. And I have four cats that I adore. Any guy that dates me will have to understand that while a P will be an important part of my life - these other parts of my life are also important to me and a part of who I am. I would like him to be accepting and supportive of those parts of my life. In fact, I would like him to also have other parts of his life where he needs time/space away from me.
My C also always tells me when I get worked up that I don't have to decide the rest of my life today. Take one step at a time. If this guy is meant to be - he will eventually get that the R is a partnership. If he doesn't get that - do you really want to spend a lifetime validating his need for you. If he is doing this now - it will get worse with time.
My GF has a H that calls her all the time - when he is away on business trips, when she goes out with her friends, when she is out with the kids. He has no one else - no other support system and is very dependent on her for his sense of well being. We went out to lunch once and much to my surprise - he decided to join us on a girl's lunch. If she doesn't answer her cell when he calls - he calls over and over again and leaves a million messages.
The X and I had similar issues. I didn't have any space in that R. At first I thought it was love and so flattering - then over time I felt claustrophobic. He jever ever wanted to go anywhere w/o me and if he ever went anywhere - he would call me continously. I was showered with flowers and cards and well every romantic thing you can think off - but it was all the time and too much.
I am not saying break up with your guy. Just proceed with caution and don't ignore your instincts. I am also a big proponent of the two year rule that TC posted about. A GF told me about that one - and that is one I am not budging on. I am slow - I need time to get to know someone before I will even consider moving in or sharing my life with him.
Please keep us posted on your job hunt. I hope something comes through for you soon - being in financial limboland is miserable. Just remember if you are getting a million rejections it doesn't matter - you just need ONE offer.
OK - very good points from all. Thanks for the input...
Am I looking too closely for flaws? Maybe. Am I scared? Yes. Am I hesitant to go forward with this R? Yes...but is that because I am simply scared, based on what I've been through, and I am looking for an excuse to bail out and retreat to my comfort (safe) zone? Or is it because my gut instinct is telling me simply that something with this guy is not as "right" as it should be in order to move forward. That is the puzzle, and I don't have an answer for that just yet.
Beth may be right and this is not necessarily "needy" of BF, but what happens in a normal relationship. When both are on the same page and ready for the next step, it isn't even an issue...when I am holding back, it becomes an issue and a source of frustration.
Spitty, I can relate to the kids issues...in my case, his kids are fine with our R and my kids are not. They don't dislike HIM personally, but they do dislike the fact that Mom is dating and my time is not 100% theirs. While that in itself is not something I want to give in to - my kids can't make that decision for me, obviously - I also hesitate to bring another source of conflict into my home. Three teenagers is stressful enough! I understand that at their ages they don't want to deal with the possibility of creating space in their lives for a potential step-dad and siblings. (although we are not even close to discussing marriage, I know my kids see it that way. They watched their dad do it very quickly and they assume I will also) They still don't deal with OW and her kids particularly well, and it has been two years since they married. My XH's life is very segmented. Most of the time, he sees his kids or his wife, but very seldom together - and he gets frustrated because they don't get along as one big happy family. But he never had everyone together before the marriage - which is another reason I really like the two year (or more) time plan.
Well, for now, I am not making any major decisions...just trying to enjoy the relationship for what it is right now, but knowing there are some flags I will be watching for.
XH just brought the kids back...three days is nearly a record. And actually, one of them stayed with me...so it has been since Christmas since I had any alone time!
I wouldn't have it any other way, though. OW may have gotten the H, but I got the kids, and I definately won in that deal!!!
OK, back to the work. Thanks everyone, for your help! I'll do some more thinking about all this....
VJ...Wow..you have received some wonderful and thought-provoking responses here! They are good food for thought for me, as well. I think Beth hit on something when she said "Women do better at being along after a divorce than men do". My BF was only alone for a few months after his D before he started dating, I was alone for 4 years before dating! When I was alone, I was totally "fine"...well, after my crying my eyes out, not eating, not sleeping period...once I stabilized and accepted the D...then, I was "fine" being alone. My life was FULL with my kids, my family, work, hobbies, etc. I got SO TIRED of people asking me "when are you going to start dating?". Even my own therapist told me I was "stuck" because I wasn't dating!
So, I did the match.com thing, and it took a year to meet anyone I cared to go out with again ( my current BF). But, as wonderful as it is to have a significant other in my life, I would also be just fine without a significant other in my life. There was a time in my life where I couldn't say that, and I was never happy just "being" , I had to "be WITH someone" to be happy.
I have my concerns that my BF has not learned that lesson in life yet....to be happy just "being".....he doesn't relish time alone....he would rather be with me or his kids or his friends....he is always inviting people over and entertaining....me.....I HAVE to have my time alone, or I get SOOOOO CRANKY! The thing that saves us is my BF is a workaholic, and works 6 days a week until 7 or 8 pm at night. So, that way, I get LOTS of time to myself and time with my kids.
That whole "two year rule", I truly believe in it. The first 6 months to a year, everyone is still on their best behavior. By the end of the first year, you are JUST BEGINNING to see the REAL PERSON, with all their flaws, as they are of you. That second year is a big "dance", back and forth, figuring each other out, deciding if their flaws are ones you can live with ( and we all have flaws, darn it all!) or if those flaws are deal breakers. That second year brings conflict, and how we deal with that conflict dictates whether the R is a healthy one or not.
In my situation, I am 37 and my BF is 48. He has dated lots more than I have. I really could care less about dating more men, I am very happy with him. But, then again, I like things just as they are...my house..his house...my money...his money....my kids...his kids....and I have no desire to go any further. That being said, I am good to him. I cook for him a few times a week, do little errands for him ( as he never has time because he works so much), make sure I get a babysitter if it's not my XH's weekend so we can go out for a nice dinner, etc......
I know in my heart that I am not ready for more than we currently have, and I have to stay true to myself. If that means that I will end up an old maid and alone, so be it....because, thanks to this awful D journey...I have done the work on myself and learned to be happy all by myself. I know the day will come when my kids go to college and move away, but that's another age and another stage. I am enjoying this age and stage , one day at a time, and I finally learned to stop stressing and let go of worrying about my BF wanting more than I do. I finally realized that that's HIS problem and HIS decision, and once I let it go, it's been so much better!
I wish you all the best in your job search. What type of work do you do?
Hi VJ, I totally understand your thoughts on this. My D was 18 when her dad and I separated. After dating on and off for about 3 yrs, I met someone and we are now living together. Neither of us have kids at home. Your kids are at an age when "it's all about them." However, in a couple of years they may feel differently about your BF. My D was "relieved" when I found someone because, until then, she felt like she was all I had. She worried about me constantly and now she feels less pressure to "be there for me." Your kids need to understand (and eventually they will) that you can't put your life on hold indefinitely to cater to their needs. They will grow up, move out and have their own lives.
I didn't read all of your post on the neediness of your BF, but, it may be that he just wonders where he stands in relationship to your kids, job, etc. This is normal and it's something that we all need to know.
As for being scared, looking for excuses, etc., this is also normal after what we've been through.
I wrote what I did because I worried about much of the samethings that both you and Spitty have been talking about. I was lucky in that I had a wealth of women who went before me and who also felt much of the same. Early on I joined a Divorce Care group. Not only has the original group of both men and women stayed friendly but there is also a group of women who have gone through it and still get together to share. I understand so much more because of them and know that these feelings are very normal.
Not only is our situation different from women who have gone through this who don't have children, but the fact that we do have children to consider piles on a whole other group of concerns. When we have children it's alot harder to let go of the past. Our children are a constant reminder of what was. Besides that, we are constantly worried about them and what the longterm affects will be. Maybe there's even a little guilt that we couldn't have done something in order for them to not have felt the pain. Also,I think we go into overdrive trying to do the job of 2 parents.
Early on I had a guy friend who was also getting divorced and started to come over. We had been friends through both of our marriages so at first I was cool with it and so was my daughter. When he started to show up more frequently my daughter started to become uncomfortable and I could see it in her face and body language. This was her home and she was uncomfortable that once again she would be thrown into changed while still grieving the loss of her family as she knew it. I had to tell him that this was getting to be too much and neither of us were ready for it. The really weird thing was that he hooked up with another of our friends and within a month and a half they slithered off to Vegas to get married (that's a whole other kettle of fish). So now I realized that both of my daughters had seen so much bad behavior from adults that I sat them down and promised them that I would never do anything stupid and I would always be honest with them. They needed to know that they came above all else and that they would always be my first concern. It helped but I have noticed that when guys tend to try to get close my youngest daughter tends to get nervous.
That talk happened 3 years ago. I feel now though that we should be at a point where life does have to go on and she will have to understand that. It's only natural for our kids to be conflicted and not want to share the new family dynamic with someone new. The only fair way to get them used to our moving on is to do it slowly. If your guy cares for you as much as it sounds like he does he'll understand this. If he doesn't, then you didn't lose a thing because the truth is, it would never have made you happy to see your kids put on the back burner for someone else.
Don't get me wrong, I'd never want to know what life was like without my kids, but it makes dating a lot less complicated when you have only yourself to consider. This time around we have baggage and it's precious baggage at that. No one knows how we're going to feel when we find ourselves there.
So listen to your gut. If something makes you uncomfortable tell him and see how he does with that. These feelings don't mean there is anything wrong with you or with him, they just mean you're in different places. If he really cares and wants something more, he'll back off and wait for you to come up to speed. It he can't do that, well I'd rather know that sooner than later.
No worries about hijacks here! Thanks everyone - this is great to hear all the different perspectives from wise people! I think one leftover result of my divorce is that I tend to not trust my gut like I used to - which is strange, because really, my gut never failed me. My "gut" told me to marry my H becuase it was right, and it also told me something was wrong several months before both OW's...so in that sense, my gut was always right.
I think what my intuition (gut) is telling me now is that BF is not going to be able to let this go and just enjoy our R as it is without worrying about where it will go. We met for coffee yesterday, and he immediately began talking about our "problems" again...I just wanted to enjoy a cup of coffee before I had to go home and make dinner! He kept me there, talking in circles, for more time than I had - the kids were upset that I was late, I was feeling resentful that I had to be pulled in too many directions.
He says he feels me pulling back...and I am...but am I pulling back only becuase he is pushing, or because I have seen a few things that make me wonder if this has the potential for long-term? Both, actually...but the more he pushes as I pull back, the more frustrated I get, the less time I want to spend with him.
Seems in a way, a reverse of my last few months with XH...I wanted to "fix" and talk about our issues - he just wanted to let things drop. I did always wonder had I been less insistant we do SOMETHING to heal our marriage NOW, would the flirtation with OW have just faded away? Being on the other side of this...maybe - I will never know. Hard lesson to learn, even though I had the best of intentions in trying to save a 15 yr marriage - I went about it the wrong way (and found DB late in the game). And of course, this isnt the same type of R at all...
Well, in a way it is like TC said...I have told him what I can and can't do right now. What he does with that, in a way, is his problem and not mine. I regret hurting him (and it IS hurting him right now, even if we do keep seeing each other - he is a mess), but I can't be drawn into something that doesn't feel right. Whether it is the man or the timing that isn't right doesn't matter so much - it is the combination. Maybe a different personality would be able to step back and give me some space, and we could continue to enjoy dating. I don't know.
I have several very busy weeks coming up...and while I am sympathetic to where BF is coming from...I also just don't want to deal with drama from "what is our relationship? where are YOU in this?" stuff right now. The kids are out of school and want time with me...I have house projects that have been neglected as long as they should be and need done...the job hunt is in full swing...and I am teaching summer school and have to create two weeks of full lessons for 25 middle school kids who absolutely DO NOT want to be in school during July. Should be fun. I might need some of ALL's wine when this is over...
Wow, this guy IS going to push you away if he keeps it up. I have to say, at the 4 mo. point of my R with my BF, when he started asking me about making things more serious, I told him that I was in no way raeady for that, and he let it go....for the most part....I think that every few months he would try to address it again, but certainly not EVERY DAY! In fact, I recall him asking me if I wanted to "slow things down" or "take a step back". Your BF is not respecting your boundaries...that is, assuming you have made your boundaries clear to him, which I believe that you have.
I think I would just tell him, point blank, exactly how you are feeling about things....and tell him you need to be able to enjoy the times you two spend together....not get all stressed out about all the deep R talk....and that if he cannot accept things how they are now, that he needs to make a decision, but that's HIS decision and you will respect whatever decision he makes.
I feel for you teaching middle school kids summer school! I teach high school math, and I have always found middle school to be a hard age to teach. I much prefer the older kids. People always ask me "how on earth can you teach high school?" , but I think everyone has their niche, and mine seems to be with teenagers. Plus, I have honors math classes, so I am sort of spoiled!
Are you looking for a teaching job in the fall?
I am home with my kids all summer. They spent the first 2 weeks of the summer at their Dad's, and will go there again in the end of July for another 2 weeks. He lives about 2.5 hours away ,and he is great about spending time with them. During the school year, he takes them every other weekend. I am so grateful that he does his part with them, it wasn't always that way. He left when they were 13 mo. old and didn't take them overnight at all until they were 4 years old! ( they are 8 now) He remarried a wonderful lady, and she is a great influence on him.
Well, hang in there, and try not to stress about things. Enjoy your summer with your kids, it will be over before you know it!
Wow what an interesting thread. Don’t worry Bethie, I’m not going to give any speeches on the "Women do better at being along after a divorce than men do” topic. I can see I’m way outnumbered and evidently there a lot of single men out there that don’t know how to take care of themselves. (I guess I’ll just sit home alone and try to convince myself that I’m miserable… Ha! )
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They don't dislike HIM personally, but they do dislike the fact that Mom is dating and my time is not 100% theirs. While that in itself is not something I want to give in to - my kids can't make that decision for me, obviously - I also hesitate to bring another source of conflict into my home. Three teenagers is stressful enough! I understand that at their ages they don't want to deal with the possibility of creating space in their lives for a potential step-dad and siblings.
The issue of having kids and dating is a slippery slope for sure. I dated a nice gal for awhile that had 3 not so nice daughters and she told me up front that her kids were not easy and they came first. Well they did everything they could think of to sabotage things. I understand that the kids came first and their needs have to be met but they would be downright unreasonable at times and since I was “so understanding” it was always me that got put on the back burner playing second fiddle. Well, it didn’t take long for that to get really old, and then once she told me that her kids would always come first even after they left home… Throw in a few other issues and the fact that she was very needy… See ya.
I don’t have all the answers but there has to be a fine line here somewhere between our kids needs and wants and who comes first at what point. Maybe these 3 girls can pull mom’s strings but I just couldn’t see any point in letting 3 teenage drama queens run my life, besides I didn’t think it was fair to expose S17 to that kind of behavior.
VJ, I agree with TC that BF is not respecting your boundaries at all. There is a time to discuss things and then there are times when you just need to drop it an let things cool off. There will always be conflict in life, it’s how we deal with conflict that determines how successful a relationship is. Oh ya, I have plenty of wine back at the castle so when you’re ready just say the word and I’ll send ya a bottle or two.
ALL
"Life may not be the party we hoped for... but while we are here we might as well dance!"
Balancing the parenting and dating stuff is rough. The timing has been important in my sitch as well.
I do think that parents - mainly women but sometimes men too (I've been guilty of this) - sometimes use their kids as excuses for not getting deeper into a dating R. Reality is that in a marriage, or at least one that will last, it's probably not a good idea to neglect the adult R too much. Some scheduled adult time is necessary, with no child interruptions.
In my sitch, things seem to ebb and flow. Earlier, my GF would almost smother me with time, coming over alone or with her kids, and that caused me to set up some limits. More recently, due to her own stuff, she's spent way more time with her kids and mom, with us having very little time for dating or being alone.
My requests to set aside time for dating and us were translated as being pushy or needy, similar to my view of her earlier in the R.
So I backed away, did trips on my own, booked up my weekends, and let her reach out.
Most recently, she offered the brilliant idea of us setting aside time to date and be alone as adults, not merely as parents (she has 3, I have 1). Without pointing anything out, I merely noted "sure!".
It's not an easy issue, and seems to go back and forth as the need arises b/t the two households (actually more if you consider the X's involved).
Any guy that dates me will have to understand that while a P will be an important part of my life - these other parts of my life are also important to me and a part of who I am. I would like him to be accepting and supportive of those parts of my life. In fact, I would like him to also have other parts of his life where he needs time/space away from me.
Thanks everyone - this is great to hear all the different perspectives from wise people! I think one leftover result of my divorce is that I tend to not trust my gut like I used to - which is strange, because really, my gut never failed me. My "gut" told me to marry my H becuase it was right, and it also told me something was wrong several months before both OW's...so in that sense, my gut was always right.