Mattie-I have never posteed to your thread but Lily told me to read it-all I can say is WOW! UNFREAKINBELIEVABLE! What all you have been through!! All I know is the little I read and that was a bomb!. You are an amazing woman. I think Lily told me to post to you because I am going through terrible anxiety over my H. A which I found out about in April We had been separated for 6 months and I had no idea he was having an A-swore he was not, but my gut kept telling me he was. Finally someone I worked with saw them and I confronted him in C and he fessed up. You have enough on your plate-we'll talk when your up to it. I have alot to ask you.Lily knows we have alot in common with the little Mattie and I have a little Rachael that I am having to deal with through all this -well...you know how hard it is. I hope you went on vacation and it was everything you hoped for and more. My prayers are with you and yours. Rachael M.
Mattie-I lied-After reading back-I did post to you a couple of times. We just never really connected that we had alot in common. I truly hope things are going well for you. Post when you can, Rachael M.
Well, I was up yesterday morning at 5:45 after only 3 hours sleep and sitting here typing a very long post. H came down and I panicked and erased everything. I was not able to get back here as we basically talked for 9 hours straight yesterday. We're both exhausted!!
Vacation went well, all in all. We did have some OR talks along the way -- some got a little sticky -- but all in all everything was pretty good.
So, I think I'll just get down to it. If I repeat anything I posted before leaving, please forgive me. At this point everything seems like a blurr.
Basically, H has spilled his guts to me about this EA. She is someone he's known (really just known of) since he was a teenager. Her parents are/were friends of his parents. They only saw each other a few times in their entire lives. He had a crush on her. She never reciprocated his feelings. Now, she tells him she's loved him for the last 30 years!!
He told me yesterday that he's thought of her on and off over the years. Sometimes he dream of her and wake up feeling "messed up" for a couple of days. She started contacting him at some point while he was still in the PA and thinking that he was "in-love" with that OW. He said he feels one reason he gave up the PA was because he wanted to concentrate on this old flame from his past. Ouch. That hurt. He'd give up the PA for her, but not for me. Well, he did say that was not entirely true. He knew he didn't want the PA anymore anyway and that the EA helped him out of that. Still -- ouch!!
So much has happened in the past 2 weeks. We have had some incredibly soul-bearing talks. We really, both of us, dumped the trash -- so to speak -- of all the hurts and resentments that were held back in our marriage. It was very painful; very eye-opening.
Lily, I read your recent posts. My H cried during our talk yesterday, also. He cried at two different times. That was a huge breakthrough. Many years ago my H told me he'd never cry in front of me again. Apparently, I'd hurt him so much at a point where he was bearing his soul to me (to the point of tears), that he swore he'd never cry in front of me again.
I am so ashamed of myself. How could I have made the man I love feel so lost and lonely? How could I have been so cold to him that he finally just shut down emotionally and would not open up to me again -- until yesterday. I guess the answer is that I was so caught up in myself and my own feelings of resentment and loneliness that I couldn't see what I was doing to him.
So, I feel that he finally feels free enough and maybe safe enough with me to let himself cry in front of me and let out all the pain and hurt he's felt all these years. I said that he was letting himself be emotionally vulnerable with me again. He said that maybe he just didn't care anymore (ouch). He immediately grabbed my hand and said, no, that wasn't the case. I hope not.
He says he still has feelings for the EA. He said they don't just go away overnight, but he was certain that they would. He wants them to go away. In fact, he says they are already deminishing.
He is questioning everything at this point about that EA. He himself does not know how he could think his feelings are/were love. He realizes there is no basis for love. He does not know her. He has not seen her in 30 years. He realizes that everything she has told him could be a lie -- he does not want to believe that, but he knows it could be true. Especially since only 45 minutes after I called her two weeks ago, she was trying to contact him to tell him they needed to "leave it where it was. This was a sign from God." He really questions how it could be so easily ended on her part if she had "been in love" with him for the past 30 years.
This woman was a drug addict 20 years ago!! She had an affair with her drug pusher. Her H rescued her from some scenario where this drug pusher apparently held a gun to her head!! They moved from Florida to Ohio to get away from all that. Now, she cultivated an EA with my H while being in counselling with her's because of their problems. Who knows what else she's done over the years.
I asked my H how he could love a person like that. He doesn't know. I asked what is it that you love about her? His reply, "Because of who she is." Huh? That doesn't make sense. He doesn't know the real her, and with her sorid background doesn't sound like such a great person.
He is really confused and wants help -- finally. He really wants to deal with his guilt and he wants to find out why he's been so self-destructive. He wants me to know why he's done the things he's done. He's very afraid that if he doesn't figure out why he's done the things he's done that he will continue his self-destructive ways in the future. I was a bit alarmed -- asked if that meant he felt he could have another A -- either kind. He said, no, not that, but maybe something even worse. Scared me.
It is so hard for me to hear him say he has feelings for this person. But rationally, I KNOW that it is all a fantasy. I believe that he probably thought about/dreamed about this person in the past because he felt unloved and unwanted by me. He desparately wants to be loved. So then while he was already "messed up" by his involvement with the PA (who he thought at one point he loved because she said she loved him), in walks the old crush. She works herself into his life and tells him she's been in love with him for 30 years. That's all he needed to decided he was in love with her.
Guys, is that messed up or what? The man really, really needs help -- not only from a counsellor, but from me. I need to put aside my hurt feelings, resentments, jealousy and really be here for him. He knows now that I love him -- without a doubt. I believe that is why the "feelings" he has for the EA are starting to deminish already. Plus, like he said, since the feelings aren't being fed by contact with her they are and will continue to die. He sees that I've been loving him all through this mess. He's astounded that I can -- me, too.
He says he has made his decision to be 110% committed to me and OM. I questioned him incessantly about how he can tell me now that he loves me when just 2 months ago he said he didn't and wasn't committed to me. He says what happened 2 weeks ago (me finding about about the EA and him having to face our kids), shocked him back to reality. And, friends, I know he was in shock. He slept downstairs that night and when he came up to our room the next morning he was shaking like a leaf. I had to give him some medication to calm him down.
I have much more I'd like to write, but I'm drained. A little bit at a time is probably better anyway.
I need your help and guidence in keeping myself in check and not doing or saying something really stupid to him. I need to let him work out his feelings about the EA. I need to not be threatened by them. That's a tall order.
I told him yesterday that what I needed above anything else was his honesty -- no matter how brutal, no matter if it hurts me or not. That is the only way to get through this and move on to a happy healthy marriage. He agreed with me. He said it will be hard because he's afraid I'll run if he's too honest. I pointed out that I haven't run so far with all the crap he's told me -- and I've had plenty of reason to. I asked him to trust me -- trust that I love him enough to make it through this. He doesn't understand how I would even want to, but right now he's just grateful that I'm standing by him.
He promised me he'd have no contact with the EA, and that if she contacted him he'd inform me. He said he has no desire right now to contact her. I asked him to let me know if he does have a desire to contact her. He said he would. I don't know that I trust that, but in the spirit of full disclosure and honesty I think he will let me know.
Of course I wonder what is happening while he's at work -- is he calling her or e-mailing her? Is she calling him or e-mailing him? Before he left this morning he simply said, "Don't worry about anything." I took that to mean he was trying to reassure me that he wasn't going to contact her. I liked the fact that I didn't have to ask him. I don't want to ask him. I need to let him start rebuilding his self-respect and integrity by honoring his promises to me without me constantly reminding him to do so.
I need to go now my friends. I have much to do today. Please continue to pray for us. God is at work here.
The thing that leapt off the page at me was that your H seeks (needs) to be reaffirmed that he is loved. I will venture to post that he doesn't really know what 'love' is (our C ventured that Sage doesn't know what it means to be happy or the meaning of love).
Hence your H sought this thing called love via a PA and then when that didn't work he reached into his past in response to a ghost fr the past.
You can point to your kids and tell your H that they are tangible proof of love. You can verbally affirm your love for him (without going near the bitter mind you) and you can show him fove through your actions. Real love will begat real love.
You are absolutely correct in your assessment. My H does not know what real love is -- although he professes to love me very much. Maybe a better way to look at it is that he doesn't know how to receive real love. He does not feel worthy of anybody's love so it is easier for him to accept love from unworthy people to feed his deep desire for love.
In our conversation yesterday, we pretty much went over this same stuff. He also admitted he does not know how to be happy. He stated he doesn't even feel he wants happiness so much as he needs to find peace with himself.
Yes, this man is ripe for counselling. Fortunately, I will not have to badger him about seeking help. Now that our best friends know of the situation, they will do the badgering for me. It is a big step for him to really want help, though. It's a big step for him to admit that he really needs help.
I need to find that peace that I was feeling a short while ago. I need to relax and believe that he is finally at the point of starting his journey towards peace and happiness. I will wait for him to catch up with me.
Mattie-you are in my prayers. Your in a very hard plae to be. Not trusting. Your H. sounds very much like he wants help, so there is LOTS of hope in that. He wants you and his M. He will sort through this with you lovingly by his side. He sounds petrified of losing you-a sign that he knows in his head what is right and his heart will have to follow, as it will if he keeps his head in the right place. It does not sound Like he is going to do anything but go foreward in a positive mode. Still.....I know what its like to have to womder if you can trust what they say. I say we do until we have proof that it's not true, then we go from there. Good luck, we are all pulling for you! Rachael M.
((((MATILDA))))!! You know that I am here for you!! I think that you are one strong,brave and teriffic lady!! You have been through so much and you have really handled things well in my opinion!! You have shown your H unconditional love through all this and he knows that and I believe in my heart that your love will see him through!! Yes,he is messed up emotionally but he is aware of it and knows he needs help...that's a big step! It is wonderful that he opened up to you and told you everything and even made himself vunerable through tears (my H did the same thing and believe me I know how difficult it is to watch such a strong man in tears!!)!! I know you feel that you let him down along the way in your R but that is still no excuse for the things he did. I realized that I was responsible for a lot of my H's unhappiness and his feelings at the time of his A but that doesn't mean I am responsible for him cheating! I did try to assume the blame at first but then I woke up to the fact (and my H also told me) that I may have been making my H unhappy but I did NOT make him go out and have an A!! You may have made some mistakes with your R but you are human...humans aren't perfect and people make mistakes. Don't beat yourself over past mistakes..learn from them and don't let them repeat themselves. Your H made a lot of mistakes too. Now he is having to pay for them. You are showing him that REAL LOVE is forgiving and caring!! It does sound like your H needed to learn the meaning of REAL LOVE and now he is. I always felt my H never really knew what love was because of his past. I thought I was showing him but when things got a little rough he took that to mean that I really didn't love him like he thought. By forgiving him and working on the problems and not constantly berating him for the A I have shown him what REAL & TRUE LOVE IS!! You are really doing great and I am really very very proud of you and I admire you so much!! You just keep moving in the direction you are going I feel in my heart that things will continue to get better and happier for both of you!! As always I am praying for you and your H!! Your Friend, Pat
And I will say your husband is in the grip of a life-shattering MidLife Crisis.
I'm not sure how much you know about me, but I have a gift of insight concerning the MLC situations, and can tell you where your husband is within his crisis.
I read your entire post from start to finish and am glad I did.
When he dropped the bomb the first time, he was in the stage of "Replay"--when he broke off with OW, he started suffering withdrawal from the OW, but this other type of affair was going on, and he was consumed with guilt because although he KNEW what he was doing to you, he didn't feel he had a choice, affairs are an addiction and commonly called "dead-end" roads the MLC'er takes in order to dull the emotional pain they are going through.
Since he was withdrawing from the 1st OW, he was easy prey to fall into another type of affair-the EA. He was weak, simple as that. When he was found out the SECOND time, it shocked him into the realization he COULD lose you, and he didn't want that. Before, he was taking you for granted--he just THOUGHT you'd always be there. But he's found out differently.
Honey, understand it was NOTHING you did to "push" him into it, something changed within HIM, and the only responsibility you carry is your part relating to the breakdown of the marriage-you are NOT responsible for his actions-only for your own.
You've got to understand the OW was a symptom, and NOT the whole problem-he was looking for admiration/appreciation. Instead of opening his mouth and voicing that need, he sought it else where, which was WRONG, but the MLC'er's confusion is so deep they are driven to do things they otherwise would not do if they were "normal".
They actually, while deep within the tunnel become the opposite of what they were pre-tunnel. And what he said about not loving you was true from HIS point of view. Doesn't seem right, but I've been there on the receiving end of that one. It is VERY possible to fall out of love at Midlife--in order to fall back into love, it will take MORE work than it did when you two were younger.
What you are dealing with right now is a husband who is still in the tunnel at this point in time, and he is suffering from OW withdrawal as we speak. Also, don't worry about his failure to perform sexually-I would also say he is suffering from Male Menopause, and impotence is one of the symptoms-bet he's also having hot flashes, too. It seems that MLC and the male menopause go hand in hand and his hormones are all messed up right now.
They should rebalance as he comes on through, unless he's suffering from low testosterone levels or erectile dysfunction-but from your posts, I think guilt is working on him, too, and that can cause him not to be able to perform. Be patient with him, and don't get hurt at him. It's not his fault. This is normal for him and nothing to do with you.
Look for him to fall into a depression, and it will hurt you to watch him, but the only thing you will be able to do is be there when/if he needs you. Be kind to him. I know you are angry and I understand that. But the emotional pain he is feeling is very real and he doesn't understand why he feels the way he feels.
At least you know FOR SURE about both affairs. My husband had one and I still don't know the total truth yet-although ALL the physical and phone evidence was there. It has been 11 months and I still don't know the truth about it, althought I DO know for a fact it is over and has been over for 10 months. Fear keeps his mouth shut, although I've done everything in my power to make him feel safe. I have had to accept it for now.
Anyway, he will most likely suffer depression AND OW withdrawal for awhile and the pull of the addiction will be with him for a time, and it is a hard battle for him. Because the answers come from HIM, and not you, it is important to be patient and understanding of him during this time.
When his OW withdrawal comes to an end, he will still be in a depression, but will attempt to exit the tunnel. If you can, don't put any pressure on him, or he will jump back in. One of the hardest parts of MLC is the exit from the tunnel. He will start to relax, feel and act more like himself and start trying to be happy. It is also during this time, you will observe him "splitting" into several personalities-he will literally disintegrate into several people.
You will observe "flashes" of your "old" husband, "new" husband, personalities you've never seen before, a 3 year old child, a 15 year old adolescent, and "bad" personalities as well as "good" personalities.
Just like in adolescence, he will be trying on different personas to see what he will keep, and what he will "throw away" and whatever you see, you must accept.
It is during this time he will face his final fears concerning death, his life, etc. He will "bottom out" once or twice and will go into the stage of Withdrawal and that's where he will literally shut himself away from you and his family for a time. Each stage has the seeds of the next within and are needed to go through fully in order to progress to the next stage.
When he breaks Withdrawal, that is usually the time he will recommit to the marriage, and start attempting to enter Acceptance, which is the last stage.
It is during that stage that he will accept himself, his life, his mate, etc.
You MUST give him space and the time he needs to complete his MLC so he can progress through the stages. He cannot be pressured into coming out before he is ready.
The dangers of falling back into "Replay" are lessened once he reaches the stage of Withdrawal.
In the meantime, if you haven't taken your journey to find your part in this, it's time you did so, now.
Why must you change? Because, for one thing although your husband has put the marriage asunder, YOU must look at YOUR part in the breakdown of the marriage, and change accordingly, because it is now time for you to "grow up" and become what you were meant to be.
Each one of us made mistakes in our marriages and each one of us have areas we need to improve in our lives. The lessons MUST be learned so that IF your marriage was to fail (life has NO guarantees) you won't take the SAME problems into another relationship, if it comes to that, or even if your marriage makes it you won't make the same mistakes once again, and once you make your changes, you will actually like what you become and won't want to go back to what you were. I know I don't like what I used to be, and really like what I've become.
It is the same as the DBing principles. I have to confess I didn't know Michelle's principles, but what I was taught while my husband was deep within the tunnel were the SAME things Michelle teaches her clients.
The changes are for YOU, not for your husband. If he accepts your changes that's fine, but if he doesn't, that should be fine, too. You have to shed the "old" you completely and make way for the "new" you, that will stand her ground no matter how hard your husband tests the waters.
A new marriage calls for new people, and believe me, if your husband lets his MLC mold and shape him, you'll get a "new" man in place of the "old."
He has no choice BUT to change, as his MLC calls for change within him. When YOU change and stick with it, HE will follow suit. I saw it myself and know it's true.
As hard as it is, TIME, PATIENCE and LOVE are called for to help him through. How long it will take, depends on him, because the answers come from him.
My husband has been going through his MLC for 2 years and 8 months. I was made aware something was seriously wrong in September 2001, and I have been hanging with it since then. My husband is now in the stage of Acceptance, and is very close to finishing; how close, I'm not sure, but the rollercoaster ride was a rough one.
No, it was not easy, and I wanted to throw in the towel many times, but I can say I made it on the strength of the Lord, and I use my experience and the wisdom and insight He has given me to help others through.
We are a young couple-he was 36 when it started; I was 32. We are now 39 and 35, and I'm glad this is nearly over with, and I have come to be glad for my circumstances, for the Lord is bringing us through with a better marriage in the making. The changes in my husband have been amazing, and to me, it was worth what I put up with to make it this far.
Do exactly what Heart's Blessing suggests. Tammy is in tune w these men. I went back and read all her threads. Very insightful. She gives credit to God for this gift.
Good advice here, thats for sure. I'd only like to add one thing.
None of us really know what love is. It's something that takes a lifetime to learn. At best, we begin to get a clue.
Your love need is different than your H's. The magic happens after the expectations are lost and there is still something left. I call it mutual respect and real love. Love that drives you to want to respect and support your S in their life journey, wherever it leads them.
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