I have trouble remembering or even finding out who is where in their sitch..are they separated, if so how long, living together, OW or OM still involved, divorced, back together, etc. Some people put it in their tag, some don't. I would find it very helpful if on the profile or tag we could just list our facts. It might make it a lot easier to post helpful replies if I knew where the poster was in their sitch with out having to read tons of threads.
I also think it would be great if there was a thread for MLCer who came back and were willing to answer questions about what their feelings were. I feel I could learn so much from the other side. I know some MLCer do come back to earth. Boy would it be great to hear from them as to what is was like for them. I think they need their own place though, as some of us are not ready to hear all, and some of them are not ready to hear us.
Let me preface this post by saying this, do not call me a pot stirrer, understand that my frequency on the boards has been limited sometimes and I post after the fact many times. I will also say that this is not personal, to me this is business, the business of DBing.
RCR, your initial post tripped me out a little. I believe it was good up until you asked for SG to not moderate. I believe in all of this even SG has learned a valuable lesson and I for one believe we need to give her the chance to learn from what all of these wonderful posters have said to her. I supported AMy and you in your return, now you are back, be back as the strong and well respected poster that we all faught for.
IMP, I do not get your style yet, I will at some point. I think the problem is we all want the same thing, but we are so dead set on looking for the negatives that none of us focus on what it will actually take to correct the problem.
Jeanette, your post to Bworl, pretty wrong...People find romance and relationships in many different places, how they find them is not relative nor worthy of judgment. If Bworl had found love in the video room of a porn shop and it was a good woman like deb, I would certainly support it rather than be upset about where they found each other. I would instead encourage them to share their common interests. In this case their common interest is to have an open and honest relationship. I will leave it at that.
As far as all the other stuff on this thread, I am going to address it in the style that I am most comfortable with, that of a manager overseeing a new project.
IMHO we have all lost site of the mission at hand. It is not to beat a dead horse and continue to focus on the negative factors deterring us from completing our task. It is to look for resolution and to brainstorm to find solution oriented tasks to insure that the issues that have stopped our progress do not occur again. We need to focus on how to resolve the issues that led to the "failure" that occurred to cause all of this.
My advice, everyone in the know about all the goings on need to start thinking outside the box a bit and come up with realistic obtainable solutions to avoid these problems as we endeavor to move forward with the task at hand. By the way, the task at hand is to have a safe environment to discuss our relationship problems and learn to cope with our situations. Just want to make sure everyone remembers the task at hand.
So my advice to all that have posted on here, answer these questions within yourself and post about how to resolve them.
1. How do we improve communication between moderators and posters?
2. How do we insure that those who have broken the rules are warned and afforded the opportunity to correct their mistakes?
3. How do we get posters to understand that their are many different styles on this board and if it rubs them the wrong way, how do we suggest they handle it?
4. How do we fix the damage that has occurred between some of the posters on these threads?
5. What is the lesson that we should all learn from what has occurred and how do we prevent such a high price the next time so,ething like this happens.
Bottom line, we are all supposed to be here for one another. We do not have to like everyone who posts, God knows there are plenty of folks on here who cannot stand me. However we should find the level of respect for one another that shows that we understand where each of us is coming from. We all came to this website for a very horrible reason, remember? We are all here because our lives changed, fell apart, took a turn that we did not expect them to take. That was a lot of hurt that we had to deal with, every one of us has some bottled up anger, resentment, fear, and self esteem issues. How on earth is it that we all know how much we have each been hurt and yet we can still continue to do things that are hurtful to one another. For gods sake if nothing else we should all at the very least have compassion for one another.
Again RCR, I like the thought of why you started this thread. I think it is a great idea to have a thread dedicated to improving these situations. Now how do we make sure that it serves the actual purpose that it was intended to serve?
I hope that everyone can sit back and absorb all that has gone on in the last 11 days. I hope you can all see that this needs to be fixed and change needs to occur from us (the posters) and from them (the mods). The thing is, it will not change if we cannot do this in a positive manner and leave all the self serving bullshitt on the curb where it belongs.
Ian, I think you hit the nail on the head, prett much square on! My feeling from the beginning of this (going back even a bit farther than the 11 days, but that's of no consequence) was that a tiny bit of communication could have made a huge difference. The posters started out asking for that, in genereal pretty politely, the longer it didn't happen, the more angry things got. Then, once things got out of hand, people that I like, and repsect, started fighting with each other, and that hurt. It was like there was a bunch of pent up anger, and it all got released at once. In the end, maybe that's a good thing. I never realized how much of it there was. Maybe now all of us can be more aware, and try to address things before they blow up.
So, where should we go? It seems to me that the root of the communication issue was a lack of real communication from the moderator(s) to the posters, even after things started to go sideways. I think part of the issue may have been impatience on the part of the posters, but there was definetly a condescending attitude in the responses that did come back. I'm not saying it was intended, but there was really no missing it. I agree, I am happy to have sg continue (not that I get a vote!). I hope that she has learned from this as much as the rest of us. I think there must be a warning before a banning, except in extreme cases (and I don't think anything that happened here would qualify, from what I saw). Snakesonaplayne would qualify, in general I don't think it's hard to tell the difference. If in doubt, warn. I think that removing posts should only be done when the basic rules have been violated. Again, they are pretty clear. If there is a trend that the mods would like to quell, a warning, on or off the board, would probably work better than deletion, anyway. So, from what I saw, those issues were the root of the problem, and they can only be solved by a commitment by the "management" to improve it's communication to the posters. I think there are signs that this is happening, starting this weekend. Hopefully things won't go backwards as they cool down.
As far as having a poster rub you the wrong way, I think that we should all respect the person that started the thread (or the person a thread was started for). We should allow them to ask any particular poster to either say things differently, or to not post on their thread. We should respect that request. In general, I think the person that makes such a request risks missing out on something useful, but I think that is their perrogative.
As far as fixing the damage between posters, I guess that's a very personal thing. I'd like to think that the posters that have disagreements with each other could either go off board, and work things out, or just agree to disagree, while still respecting each other. I think that's usually what happens, recent events sort of exacerbated everything. We all need to respect each other. We need to remember that even when we disagree, the fact that we are here means that we probably have more in common than we might realize.
How do we prevent it? Hopefully more, and more respectful communication in both directions would go a long way. There are always going to be people feeling raw, so there is always the chance of conflict, I think that all of us need to be aware. When it happens, there are some of us that know usually "know", and like the conflicting posters. We might want to consider it our responsibility to the community to step in, off or on board, as a peacemaker, and try to get us back on the same page again.
I hope this makes sense, I don't have time to reread it much, and clean it up, so I am posting it now, rather than never!
Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged! and Let He Who is Without Sin Cast the First Stone
The website wouldn't exist if it weren't for "judgment".
What do you think it is we've all been doing here?
This IS about our collective judgments. And hopefully the improvement of it in the days, weeks, months and years to come. We judge each other's situations, each other's states of mind and we offer our understanding, our experiences, our advice and swift kicks in the butt when needed. In addition to all of that, yes, we sometimes keep it light and we laugh with each other. It is my understanding that some of you don't like that. Those of you that know me can well imagine what my response is to that...
I'm sorry for those among us that think that advice should always be tempered and come wrapped in a big bow. You are delusional because this ain't no damn walk through the tulips. You will likely be one that leaves in a huff after a few weeks here - unless of course, you are particularly hardheaded and set your sights on changing us. Good luck with that. Life turned us inside out and what you see here is the good, the bad and the ugly that is associated with real LIVING. We're survivors but surviving ain't always pretty. Deal with it.
I think "regulars" have a right to voice their opinions and the powers that be have a responsibility to address legitimate gripes, of which there have been many, along with the crap we've all helped to produce in the last 2 weeks. By and large, we were ignored, smacked down and disregarded. If that was okay with you, cool, but here's a wakeup call for the idealistic suck ups among us: the moderators don't keep these boards going, the people do. And they are not respected. The definition of the word "respect" flies fast and loose around here, too. I've got no problem admitting that at times we do tend to beat the pure hell out of an already dead horse. Here's a straw for you, suck that up, too, while you're sucking up to the head honchos like it's going to get you a free book or something.
In-fighting sucks. I think we've all had enough of that. But do you know what sucks worse? The enormous lack of humility and countless people whose vision won't expand past their already painfully narrow viewpoints. I know my views on certain things have definitely been changed here and I've got no problem giving you one huge example:
Bworl and Deb.
When I first came to know that they - two "divorce-busters" - had hooked up here on the board - in the midst of all this - and were planning to get married - I flipped a lid I didn't think could have a self-righteous thought left in it after all I'd been through. I was wrong. Over time, a lot of time, my opinion changed. On one hand I've mellowed (yeah, imagine how I used to be) but on the other, I've just seen so much PAIN in the faces, voices and typed words of US ALL, that I began to think: if they found companionship in the middle of all that, and then love, who the hell are we (Jeanette) to judge them? Yes, that is the type of judgment we DON'T need on these boards. I'd love to say "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" but hey, somedays I might have never typed a word...so I'll just say what I learned to do myself in most instances and that is "don't throw stones when you yourself live in a glass house". You think I'm harsh? You can not imagine the times that thinking that has caused me not to type a word - or to temper what I DID type. Regarding Bworl and Deb, I wouldn't dare try to stand on the only Word I trust and say God won't recognize their upcoming union because no one knows that but God. He knows what they've been through, how they tried to save their marriages and He ALONE knows if their divorces were "legal" in the biblical sense. He alone. And who ARE we to speak negatively to them, or any others like them, when it is they alone that get to talk about their relationship with Jesus one day? I suggest we all (and I've been doing this a lot lately) think about what He's going to want to talk with US about, 'cause there's not a one of us that's as pure as the driven snow on this board. Not one righteous among us.
To Sg: My opinion of your actions is well known. I do think in some cases you were just doing what you were told and you were allowed to be the scapegoat. For those instances, I apologize for "attacking" you (NOTE: I disagree with the word "attack" as it has been used because we were ignored for days on end). Now, my apology is not to say I like the way the boards look because I don't. They're a mess. But what I think is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. That said, the methods employed by you and those you work with suck but good luck with them just the same. Maybe in the long run, things will be better. I DON'T think that will happen without MUCH more interacting with the posters from here on out, but time will tell.
Faith, there's not a scripture written that will encompass all that is going on this board and in it's undercurrents.
I think it is a great idea to have a thread dedicated to improving these situations. Now how do we make sure that it serves the actual purpose that it was intended to serve?
I think you've started a great dialogue with some excellent ideas. Thank You.
My suggestion regarding SG was merely a suggestion. It was not intended as a demand nor to be disrespectful. Most of us (if not all) understand and have felt the pain of infidelity. We know first hand that the destruction of trust and the difficult process of rebuilding. Not everyone feels betrayed here. But quite a few do feel betrayed. SG has been a Godsend to the DB admnistrators. They love her and that gives her some great credibility. She wouldn't have been around for so many years if she were not a great asset. I'm not asking anyone to agree with me. Rather, I appreciate hearing both sides when offered in a constructive and cordial manner. I personally feel many of us need to heal before SG moderates our forum. I'm not wishing her to go to some dark dungeon and stay there. I don't expect her to step away; but it was a suggestion. I will be happy either way--SG isn't going to ruin my day!! But I'm a trusting person and I feel scared and vulnerable right now. Others may feel this way too. It may take some of us some time to heal and rebuild trust.
As for my comment about whether the MLC forum moderator should be an MLC-LBS or former MLCer, that was meant as a question to discuss, not an endorsement. (Maybe that was clear before, but I wanted to clarify anyway)
Quote:
How do we get posters to understand that their are many different styles on this board and if it rubs them the wrong way, how do we suggest they handle it?
In many ways this community has shown compassion and understanding for our differences through this turmoil, and not merely for differing styles, but differing belief systems and philosphies. People banded together and defended differing views. People here offer love and hugs even when they disagree with the strategies or actions of another. You know what that is...that's a family.
How do we maintain this...perhaps we do as we have done...? I don't know. But I think both Ian and Jeff have given us some seeds to think about.
) and red balloons. 
