Zebra...ahte to do this but Im getting funky. What is the title of tha tbook about the children of divorce? Tree thinks that you would know it. I'll check back again later tonight or tomorrow.
yeah.. there are days when I am clear as mud! What I MEANT was... I have your email, I have Dar's email... if sharing info via email worked better... I could hook you both up... But the book title is here shared with the world. I see similarities sort of in your sitches... but Dar's W has flown the coop where as your chickie has hung around to keep the nest warm... but the R stuff... close enough. better?
Way back when, when I was still a whining sniveling pathetic.... I got into an exchange here on the board about contact with the OM, or OP if anyone out there prefers...
I recall talking about whether a "normal" social relationship could ever be developed with the OP. I recall saying something about sometime in the future at a cocktail party, explaining how the OP came to be a "friend", how we met.... ("well, we met back when OP was screwing W. It's a happy memory, and we've been fast friends since"), or something wise-ass like that was what I wrote...
Then, later, I was warned by Arnold that it may in fact turn out that OP/OM may never leave my life, he might just be around, and I might just have to accept that. As much as the books say "complete cut-off", you must end it, or what ever, these are things that we, the left spouse read, and believe -- heck we cling to this. Anyway, Arnold was just pointing out that it was quite possible that OM would be around, and as much as I wished he'd just shrivel up an die, he may not. He said in some situations where the affair was a meeting of minds among the same social circle, there was no other choice if you (or the spouse) was not willing to sever ties with the entire social circle. Arnold is nothing if not a pragmatist.
Yesterday we went to a family 4th of July pool party. As we pulled up, W glanced at me with a look, I'll call it terror, but it was a look. There was OM's car. So, a while ago, I decided I'm not going to be bad, mean, distant or anything to him. I'm going to "act as if" he's just another guy I see a lot. I figure this works for me cuz I don't get my knickers in a twist, and it works for W cuz I don't look like the ugly jealous neanderthal, and it works for OM because he is likely constantly on his guard wondering when I will finally try to kill him... So I was on my best behavior at this party. I laughed, I joked, I chatted with lots of folks, I had nice chatty exchanges even with OM. I did good, I thought. Finally as the day was winding down, W wants to play cards. People are leaving, families are going.... W says "Guys against the girls...." So, my card partner was --- guess who??? So, we played, and I didn't even yell at him once, even when he totally blew the game because he was clueless (W commented about how nice I was to him then, even)...
So, I think I did good. I'm on a campaign to not give W any reason to... whatever. I'm on a campaign to make OM as uncomfortable as hell by my being nice to him. I'm on a campaign to get rid of all the crap that makes me unattractive to anyone at all. But, I wonder sometimes, am I being a doormat? Am I allowing myself to be played as a fool? W still doesn't touch me, doesn't initiate any affection, forget sex. I'm a friendly roommate. I don't snoop, so I don't know what she does... I force myself to trust her. She's out now, left at 8:30 (kid's bedtime, how convienient) will return whenever she feels like it. I don't try to control, I don't ask many questions, she doesn't offer many answers. She does call to tell me when she'll be later than "usual", but of course, I have no way of knowing where she is, or whom she's with....
Am I doing this right, or am I being a doormat, big time????? Now, that asked, I feel good, I feel there's progress, I feel I have succeeded at "Busting" the divorce... But I live in a sexless marriage, a sexless existance with little physical affection, being little more than a cherished roomate and old friend and co-parent, and I can't feel sure W is doing the same. I feel I might be investing more than I should be, and I may be taken for a fool. A long time ago (last summer) I said I could hold out at least till June 2002. I'm feeling tired now. I have "won" by some measure, but I'm feeling more tired, more impatient, more wondering if this is what I want, than I ever did.
wow.....I wouldn't say doormat...I would say amazing and unbelievable...you were NICE to OM????? I think I need to spend more time learning from you. A
As you posted on my thread, we seem to be in the same place (R-wise).
Personally, I don’t feel like a doormat unless W starts presuming too much. By “too much”, I mean that she has expectations of me which I have no right to expect from her.
For example, she made plans to ride (motorcycle) to in-laws with MF and her cousin. The plan included me as the person who would drive our van full of kids and MF’s W. Did she give me the courtesy of asking?
Nope!
But I can’t go back and say no now. It would only be vindictive.
This is one of the things I’d like to tell her about. Problem is, no matter how I word it, she would only hear, “Blah blah blah… You’re a bitch… blah blah blah”
As to you, would it hurt for you to ask more questions? You could approach it as being interested in her. Alternatively, you could phrase it in terms of common courtesy. I’d never dare do the latter, as I’ve just said, but you be the judge of whether or not it’s appropriate for you.
"Personally, I don’t feel like a doormat unless W starts presuming too much. By “too much”, I mean that she has expectations of me which I have no right to expect from her."
Thanks, Andy... This is again good perspective. I have been guilty in the past of resenting her for leaving me as the designated babysitter when she would just leave for the evening... She'd sometimes go for days without seeing daughter, even tho she'd eventually come home very late and leave very early.
But those times have changed. It's another baby step I sometimes over look. She doesn't stay away nearly so long, and usually she lets me know where she'll be. I either know exactly where she is or have a pretty good idea. She also almost always asks if it's ok if she goes out when in the past, she just stated it.
Sometimes I just get down, and get impatient. Now it's July, I can move on and reflect upon how I've made it this far. Good for me.
Thursday is our first real session with our new C. It's the 4th session, but the first 3 were the priliminaries of "meet both of us, then meet each indivudually". Now, we get to the work. This is one of those situations where I have to be very careful of how I set my expectations... I have to take it for exactly what it is, and not allow myself to see a vast change based on one session.
I just had something happen that makes me smile...
It's one of those good thing bad thing things... I had an unbearable urge to snoop. In the most recent past (last snoop was in January), I snooped to "catch her doing it right". I figured snooping would show me that my fears were unfounded and that she was as trustworthy as I hoped she'd be. Well, I found I was wrong, I found evidence of lies and meetings with OM, and that most of the fears I had were totally founded. I felt like the lowest of the low, like I couldn't go on. I found that the only way I would be able to keep a PMA was to stop snooping.
So, as I've said before, it's like an addiction. I eats at you, it pulls you. You feel down, you want to snoop. So I did. I snooped in her 2 "secret" Hotmail accounts. She knew I knew about one, but from what I could tell, only she and OM knew of the other. I've been squirrelly, and I felt down, and I wanted to know what's really up with OM, so I snooped. And I got messages from both accounts saying that they had been shutdown from lack of activity. Finally, I think I've caught her doing something right through my snooping...
Not that I'm going to do anymore. Just thought I'd come clean here. Now you can all admonish me. Mea culpa.
Things are definitely looking up. Great new counselor, W opening up, and a positive recon mission. It is also good to know that even the "great one" needs some "recon" once in a while. Awesome job of being "nice" to OM at the party but I agree with your "doormat" concerns. That is a tough call that is such an individual decision.
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