sgctxok....I'm listening.....

[TiredHeart]

It's something very small...something that ALL OF US..by now...would recognize.FIB

FIB,

Yes, I know exactly what you mean here. H and I were separated 22 months. I had gone completely dark for a couple months. But then, something came up, and we spoke on the phone. We talked ~ once a week for a few weeks & decided to meet for lunch. Lunch was something we did somewhat regularly while separated. We always parted ways with a hug...a non-passionate hug with a back pat. But this time, the hug had a little bit of linger in it, and then he did it. He kissed me on the lips. Right there, I knew he was feeling differently. I sensed that things were about to go in a whole new direction - all from that 1-second peck.

I was right.

H did something. It was an action that any other couple might not notice, but for me, it screamed decibles lounder than words. Since then, it has been a whole new H. No more OW. Just me. Just us.

Don't get me wrong, it wasn't/isn't smooth sailing by any means. There are so many issues that consume me sometimes. What he did during those two years. But I know that if it is to work out for us, I will have to let it all go.

It's very hard. Harder than standing.

But at least I'm not trying by myself anymore. I now know that H wants this M to work just as much as I do.

Our sitch was severe too Frank, but H found his way back. Your W will too if she wants to.

Hope my story helps you see that the smallest of signs can have the biggest & best intentions. You're eyes are still open to see it too. Just keep them open Frank, it's not over until both of you stop trying at the same time.

[sgctxok]

So move forward FIB, as you feel you need to. But if you're really allowing that "back door" to remain ajar, you're going to have to clean up some things in your heart. If you really ARE willing to acknowledge an honest effort on her part, you can't be in a state that causes you to see everything she does as manipulative. In the end, any effort she makes must be manipulative in some way, at least to the extent that she would be trying to convince you that she wanted to try to work things out.

There is a lot of wisdom here.

[ford]

I think at this stage, it's not likely anyone would confuse you with the Dalai Lama after goin through all this. nor should they.

Being a human and all, you have these damn human reactions and these funny things called FEELINGS.

blasted humans.

so you walk out into the street, right infront of a Bus.

WHAM! it takes you... I dunno, 17-18 months to walk again. you're not healed completely, but you have your feet under you.

so you go back downtown, the bus scares the hell outta you.

this is normal

the trick is to not break out the windows of the bus everytime it passes, trying to get back at it for running over you the first time....or three.

you learn to drive yourself eventually.

how's that for some jibber jabber?

[Bworl]

Ford,

Wisdom in a language we can all understand....as usual.

In your words.....you RAWK!

Blessings,

Bill

[Jeff223]

In this case, I took FIB to be trying to explain to his wife why he did not get her anything for V-Day.

I agree with all you are saying Bill but for the record:

Trying to "explain"? Has it EVER done anyone any good? Has it EVER done me? I can of course only answer for me.

Why go down cheeseless tunnels?

In fact, explaining things is not only a cheeseless tunnel but there is a spring loaded trap at the end.

He compared HIS feelings this year to HER expressed feelings last year. I don't think his intent was to throw anything in her face.

No he did not intend to, but the result was the same.

I do think that MANY of us on this board wait WAY too long before we ever speak the TRUTH to our spouses about how much what they do hurts us. Truth, as long as it's not motivated by the desire to bring pain, can not be a bad thing in my opinion.

Agree 100%, but the truth is not cut and dry. They have their own truth do they not? Therefore hearing our truth, vice their's, may indeed be painful for all.

Why beat ourselves up for no reason?

BTW, I would LOVE to have that conversation with xW! But know what? Glad for ME I never did.

Also, for the record I am not suggesting that FIB do anything different right now. Only that he accept whatever positives he can find and use them as opportunities for growth.

He has to deal with W the rest of his life.

But if you're really allowing that "back door" to remain ajar, you're going to have to clean up some things in your heart. If you really ARE willing to acknowledge an honest effort on her part, you can't be in a state that causes you to see everything she does as manipulative.

That is what I was trying to say Bill. Thank you.

Strength and Honor Bill.

[Jeff223]

That was ALSO what I was trying to say ford. Thank you.

[faithisbelieving]

But at least I'm not trying by myself anymore. I now know that H wants this M to work just as much as I do.

Nothing similar expressed by my W but a blessing for you that he wants to work thru yours with you TH.

If you really ARE willing to acknowledge an honest effort on her part, you can't be in a state that causes you to see everything she does as manipulative.

Agree with the latter; nonexistent on the former. I know my W. There is NO HONEST EFFORT ON HER PART.

I want to thank Bill....his comments are still very dead on. And...I agree with Jeff....the comments still probably don't even sink in. In fact, like we all have posted before, my W doesn't recall any of the lines or things she has said to me..in fact denies them. Comments like 'the physical chemistry is gone'...'the flame is out'.....'the day we walked down the aisle was a lie'...she cannot recall saying. So...Jeff...yes....it IS a cheeseless tunnel in THAT aspect.

ford's comments are correct as well. Although I agree that healing, forgiveness, etc is needed to move on...and thru...if recon is a possibility, I can still say that it does NOT OCCUR without the help of the person who committed the indiscretion. In fact, in reading a book by an 'expert' on infidelity, it states that the majority of M's that have infidelity involved where the S does not contribute to healing...usually go on to D. Do I run my life by statistics, well, not unless they help me plan an operation. bworl's words ring true...you can put the infidelity's behind you, cover them, etc, but the pain doesn't go and the healing doesn't occur and the TRUST doesn't return without the work of the other person and THAT must be done without beating them WHEN/IF they retutn to work on it, as TiredHeart's did above.

I WILL go on to admit my own failures here, that, I've posted before. I am tired of this. I have given up. I am NOT beating my W. In fact..if you all must know...when my W came to bed last night she pushed her way in between me and the kids (who snuck in in the middle of the night)and pushed herself into a spooning position.

I didn't push her away.
In fact, I held her...the difference is that I recognize now that this is for HER...not for US...in fact, today, on her cell, she told me that this helps her with her 'pain'.

There is nothing here to stop this D. There is nothing here from my W that can be called 'an honest effort'. All her behavior now, as I see it...as it has been repeated in the past...are behaviors that are done out of fear..out of personal need...out of trying to redirect the dynamic back to her control. There are NO babysteps and there is NO desire at recon at all...as of today...as I can see it.

To FaithfulH: I admire your stand for your M and the return of your wife AND YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT IN SPITE OF ME TAKING A DIFFICULT NON_DB PATH but there are significant differences here. Your W approached you, as I recall, inquiring about YOU beginning to know more about HER. She also was not out giving her cell phone number to strangers and with your DB'ing, she responded within a relative 'DB timeframe'. Although the hurt to you and your M was great, the behavior was not as destructive as in ours. For that...I am happy for you and you are certainly blessed. My W is gone. She does NOT do things as you describe them and I am NOT here to punish her. Do you realize who will suffer here the most by my decisions? MY KIDS!! With MY decision to file, I will lose MY HOME...I will be financially CRIPPLED. I've run many miles, alone, in the dark, thinking of this and trying for 2 years to not arrive here. But..lest we forget...perhaps it puts things in perspective to understand that I am willing to do this out of determining that this is a dead and destructive M as it exists right now. I can guarantee you...GUARANTEE..that if I tore up my complaint and just went back to DB'ing again, my W would NOT be back and WOULD seek out OM4. I AM SURE OF THAT and this is NOT said with anger or to rationalize my D

And to those who think I am punishing my W, I went with her and the kids to Madame Tussaud's Museum in NYC yesterday. I wasn't going to attend, but, my kids wanted me there....and my W thanked me for going (for the kids). I walked with D4 on my shoulders down 7th Avenue...I got lunch for us all...I took multiple photos of my W posing with various wax figures. I think that's pretty good considering what's happened in this sitch.

I'm so sorry. I wish things were otherwise.

FIB

[Jeanette1120]

{{{Fib}}}

I wish I had some answers for you. I think you've looked at every avenue possible. Just continue to move forward and find your peace. It will come, it may even surprise you. It will be ok.

I found this to be intriguing..

And to those who think I am punishing my W, I went with her and the kids to Madame Tussaud's Museum in NYC yesterday. I wasn't going to attend, but, my kids wanted me there....and my W thanked me for going (for the kids). I walked with D4 on my shoulders down 7th Avenue...I got lunch for us all...I took multiple photos of my W posing with various wax figures. I think that's pretty good considering what's happened in this sitch

.

Rich and I seperated Oct 05 but on our birthday 11/20/05 we went to Las Vegas. We have hundreds of pictures of US posing with all the wax figures at Madame T's also.... We had so much fun....I especially had fun with Billy Idol and him....some silly looking super model

Cherish those memories. They are good ones. Let the good ones guide you through all the bad ones as you move forward.

Hugs FIB...I'm wishing you peace, joy and happiness.

Jeanette

[faithisbelieving]

Jeannette...thanks so much. You've been really great to me here. I want to thank you personally from the bottom of my heart for the time that you took to give me thoughts. I've read everything you wrote and took them to heart.

To My Friends

I have arrived at a deeply painful time in my sitch. As you all know, I tried valiantly for almost 2 years to save my marriage. I will never claim that I was the best DB'er here...nor would I ever want anyone here to think that I have heaped all the blame on my wife. It's just not true to think that either she or I was either faultless or totally blame.

However, I think it is time that I begin to rely on myself now to guide my family through this, even if I must steer us through the maelstrom to get to peaceful seas on the other side.

I need to take a break from here. Sometimes, I feel the posts pull me back to a 'fake place'...a place where reconciliation is always the reward to those who wait and DB forever. Although my W has shown some behavior which I would agree with everyone here..is kind or thoughtful....the feedback I am receiving is not the woman I am living with.

Many people perceive me recently as being 'punishing' or vindictive or angry. It is not. In fact, I have reached a place where I can spoon with my W if appropriate, and, tho' most people left this out...buy her flowers on Valentine's day...and do this without my past need to get a reaction from her or to fix our M. I can do it because I want to.

To Jeff...the bullets ARE just spectres now...they can't kill me.

Despite my W's recent (cough)..positive babysteps...(cough)...I cannot attribute them as such (or efforts to come back as some have coined). That little something that TiredHeart picked up...that bigger message that FaithfulH received...are just not here. I still must make a decision, at tremendous hurt to me and my family....what is least damaging. After being here for almost 2 years, listening to all of you, reading, etc....I find that nothing here has changed and my wife is still in a place where she is capable of hurting me and the children.

I need to take a break here and try and be a man on my own for awhile. I don't know if it will be one day...2 days..a week or six months....but I need to do this on my own now.

I'm not perfect..but..I've gotten better. I can guarantee my friends the following:
-I am not out to hurt my W
-I am not trying to punish my W
-I will never denigrate her to them
-I will listen to her
-I can spoon her if THIS helps her pain
-I am not angry...to her...I have vented to my friends
-I will do everything in my power to co-parent optimally with her
-that if she becomes enraged next week after receiving the legal complaint as is required here in the State of NY, that I will do as best I can as Deida would say..to be a 'superior man' in the storm of her anger and not let her reaction cause me to become angry myself

I know what it would take to risk the hurt of OM4...that little something that we all know is a ray of hope that says "I want this".

It's not here yet. Not sure if it ever will be. I WILL know it when/if I see it. But my kids need me now...now more than ever...and I will be there for them at everystep of the way.

Strength and Honor. God bless you for your unwavering patience,kindness and courage to stand with me when your OWN principles told you not to.

FIB

[missmyfriend]

I pray for countless blessings on you and your family FIB.