it is an insight into a person who is not a monster or demon, but quite unaware of her own actions.
I want to respond to your views of the e-mail,--that will be fun. But I will make no guarantee--busy as you know! But really, that's the type of stuff I like to do, so it will be fun.
But you have stated the kernel already. she is not a Monster or demon. She's broken and allowed herself to be a victim.
Victims are people who think other people should fix them.
You may have been broken, but you know that the only person who can fix you is you.
You may have been broken, but you know that the only person who can fix you is you.
Yes. In fact one of my pet theories about my marriage is I began that fixing well before the affair. I think my H was happier when I was more broken. Basically I was willing to wrap my life around his needs. Opps, shame on me. As I got older and learned more I was less and less willing to play that role. Now I can't go back.
My only hope in all this is my H would have to decide to actually break out of his own victim role. He is in that abuser/victim place. He sees himself as the victim, but is actually causing harm to others and he doesn't see it. He likes the control at this point. He is pretty much your run of the mill narcissist.
It is also important to note there are true victims. Victims of crimes, assaults, abuse, etc. This OW was in fact a true victim at one point in her childhood and her ex is fairly abusive. But she got struck and likes the role.
Me: 46 H:44 Together: 25 years Married: 20 years Separated: 11-30-06 Divorced 12-21-07 OW: EA began 2005 PA began end of 2006 3 children,20, 16, 6 ex asked for forgiveness 01/16/11
Yes, and somehow I am the bad guy. I find it odd how many people tell me to get out and move on. There is a tone that somehow this is all my fault and I should just get it that my H wants OW and its better for him as opposed to honoring his marriage. Guess this is our world now...trade in the wife when you're bored or whatever.
Hey Shorty, you said a bunch of things a while back, I wanted to ask you about, selfishly.
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Typical of children of alcoholics. When I was younger I left home and never returned. I finally was able to put up and keep boundaries with my parents as it was best for me. It never felt comfortable. At that point in life my self worth was slowly growing. Then I met my H.
For many years things were good..but the trap was there. The wife who would do anything to please and the H who wanted always to be the center of the universe. Talk about exhausting. For me. Basically I felt used up. And I was.
I guess this isn't that uncommon for children of alcoholics. For the details you provided, it's like a mirror of my W's childhood. She left the house at 18 to go to college and never looked back. Her mom and dad divorced when she was 6. Mom became an alcoholic. W always harbored ill will toward her father for leaving the family and abandoning her and her sis (no child support). And I think she always had mixed feelings about her mom - loved her but also ashamed of her.
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the experience set up patterns in me that have taken a long time to change. The patterns get in when you are so young they become part of you. They become normal. The habit of pleasing others and denying self is one. Seeing yourself as worthless is another. And yes knowing we can not change others is there. Certainly as a child you are powerless to do anything, but worse than that you actually are dependent on your parents. So the pattern is one of thing if I change me to suite them I will survive another day. So changing me is not one of self care but to please others. In a sense self ruin.
So here is where I really want to pick your brain. This issue - the ACOA phenomenon - is at the root of the problems in my marriage I think. My wife perceives me to have been totally dominating of her for all our years together, when I don't see it that way at all. I don't deny her perception, only that I really did not intend it and actually strove for partnership with her on all things. She ran the finances. She picked the houses we lived in. She led on how many kids we had. And many other big things.
In any case she felt inadequate, had an affair, and then we had the typical messy arguments, recriminations, crying, push/pull.
We are different people, W and I. I like to please others but don't feel like it tears me down to do it. I feel fulfilled as a husband and father, in providing and caring for people in my family. I think maybe she feels like she has to please others, and she has in the past blamed herself for example, when I was not happy. She took that on herself.
Unlike your sitch, I was not dishonest with W. I did not betray her, or lie to her, or hide things from her. I always wanted to be there for her.
All that is water under the bridge. The question now is, what does it take for her to recognize the pattern for herself, to stop denying herself and yet, not discard her marriage in the process.
I guess I am just looking for some insight into my dear W, from you, who had a similar beginning. anything you can share, I'd appreciate it.
M 43 S14 S13 D11 D7 Divorce final: Jan 2009 Making it up as I go....
Not sure where to start. When we walk away from our parents at a young age, it is not because we "get it" yet. It is because it is so harmful to stay. So it is an act of self protection. But most ACOA feel bad, as I did, on a lot of levels. We feel bad we couldn't fix our parents. We feel bad we couldn't endure our parents and that somehow if only we had done this or that, things would have been better. We also feel angry. Angry that we never had parents who loved us in any meaningful way. Parents that did things with us or were there for us emotionally. On top of that, ACOA often end up caretakers as that is how they made it work at home. We become the parent of our parent.
Meanwhile, we have a funny split self esteem. We absolutely know how to take care of ourselves and others, because in a real sense we had. But the alcoholic parent is emotionally abusive always. So we, the kids, end up with little self esteem in certain odd places. Places that usually involve relationships. Often trust is hard as we never learned it growing up. Alcoholics lie all the time. We often fear chaotic environments, again because alcoholics are always chaotic and drama queens or worse. And yes having to please and deny ourselves is huge. We deny our own self in order to survive. It is an absolute necessity in alcoholic families. The non drinkers are always jumping around to tring to please the drinkers, so that the drinker is happy. A happy drunk is livable and unhappy drunk is not. An unhappy drunk abuses either emotionally or physically. The ACOA can please their pants off, but hate it. They please to avoid being hurt, not because its fun. And in all this pleasing there is no reward, no pat on the back, except you make it through another day.
I have had to unlearn most of this. It has taken years of my life. The home I came from was blatantly awful. So I knew I needed help and got it. I first learned about alanon in high school and learned well the serenity prayer. Through college I meet others that were 12 steppers. Even with lots of help, I still work at it.
If your wife never did this, the pain is still in there as are all the coping patterns. The self blame comes from what I said above...we couldn't fix them, yet felt we should have or felt it was in some way our fault.. that we were bad kids.
My husband also has an alcoholic Mother. He has a lot of these issues, but doesn't see it. He thinks he got out free. He didn't. That's why he is out there in MLC land, not me.
I would suggest you try an alanon meeting or two. It will help you understand your W and it will help you. One thing you learn is they have to help themselves or it means nothing. Just as they say here... can't fix them, can't control them, can't cure them. But you can understand them.
Your W would have to get to a place she thinks she needs help..hit bottom. At that point therapy works.
You know Short, I never did seek help regarding my childhood and the fact that I am so broken definitely help lead to the demise of my marriage. Do I think that I deserve having my h have an affair and destroy our finances? absolutely not!
I always find what you have to say so on the money. I remember so well thinking if I am a good girl today, maybe my Mom wont drink and then always being disappointed. And I took on the roll of caretaker for her and my younger sister. I kept in that roll all their lives. My mom has passed away, but I still do it with my sister.
But the difference in me is that I didnt do it in my marriage. I let my h be my caretaker. I allowed him to do everything. Now, he has to have things done a certain way so that is a role his is comfortable with. But then, I just gave up. I became extremely depressed and checked out. I wonder what makes some ACOA carry the caretaker role into their marriages and others dont. Just trying to figure it all out. Thankfully, I have a wonderful C who is guiding me.
Basically I was willing to wrap my life around his needs. Opps, shame on me. As I got older and learned more I was less and less willing to play that role. Now I can't go back.