My H and I had another joint therapy session this evening. My H is very happy with the way things are going between us except that he feels no matter what he does he can not meet my expectations and that is hurting our recovery.
It became very apparent in the session that H is committed to me and does love me but just does not verbalize a lot of things that I want to hear. The therapist explained to me that he is showing me how much he loves me in lots of other ways.
I explained to her and H that I am having problems with all the pain I stuffed down over the last six months that now bubbles up to the surface sometimes and I just don't know what to do with it. I can't share it with H as that only makes him feel worse. The only place I can really take my pain to get it out is here. So the therapist asked me to come in and see her alone a couple of times. She says that I have done a wonderful job and been through an awful lot and it is no wonder I still have some things to work through. My H is very supportive and even told me in the session that he realizes that this was his fault and he did something he never should have done with this affair. He admitted that I had no responsibility in his actions and that he knows it was his fault. No excuses and no trying to blame it on anything or anyone else. I thanked him for that. That coming from him made me feel that he does understand what he did and what it has cost us.
One of my problems is that I have set the goals to high for any realistic chance of him meeting them. You see as I explained to them tonight I was determined that after all I went through and as hard as I worked to save this marriage that I could somehow shape it into the kind of marriage that probably would only exist in a romance novel.
Knowing my H is happy and appreciates the hard work I put into saving our marriage helps too. Without going to a therapist and him having to contribute something to the conversation he probably would never have told me these things. And my H is of the type that once he has said something he should not have to repeat it again. I should just know it. So I guess in the times to come I will just have to remember in my mind that he did at least once say he was sorry, that he loves me, and that he takes responsibility for what happened. That is much to be grateful for even if I only hear it once.
So I have an appointment in two weeks to go back and start getting rid of some of the pain and other feelings that keep bubbling up to the surface so I can get rid of them and get on with our lives.
Its so strange that my H is happy and I am feeling like I need to be fixed now. Like I said to them tonight in therapy everything is so simple to him. He loves me so I am just suppose to accept things the way they are and not try to make him into someone he is not. So that is what I have to try to do.
At least I know for sure we are going to make it through this ordeal and even though he can't be the romantic person that some men can be he does love me and we will be stronger than ever. After all what doesn't kill you makes your stronger, right.
you sound so wonderful JW. how i wish someday i could write on this forum for the right reasons instead of writing here for help. i think maybe that is why i have chosen this forum...so maybe, someday.
i love your title, h is fixed. how can they be fixed so quickly. you are lucky h will go to therapist with you for your marriage. mine says he went (twice...once with me and once alone) so he could learn how to handle me. knowing that is his premise, i would like to get him to go to the sbt person...but i don't think that will work or he will want to give up the time to drive 90 miles each way and have a one hour session.
i am anxious to hear all about your 'recovery'....to me it sounds like a romance novel i would want to read.
Good morning everyone. Hope everyone got a good nights rest.
Thought I would share with you a couple more things that happened in the therapy session last night.
When I told our therapist that all that pain I stuffed down while DBing my heart out saving this marriage is now bubbling to the surface and making me feel very sad and the tears start falling for all I lost. Like I used to think our marriage certificate was a sacred document and now I see it is just a piece of paper. And with our daughter getting married on Valentine's Day in the same chapel H and I were married in 30 years ago is working on my mind. Told her I am fearful that while we are all standing there I might be remembering that H broke everyone of the vows he made on that day in that chapel that I thought were sacred. Therapist said no marriages are perfect and that all marriages go through troubled times and I should be proud that 30 years later we are standing there with our daughter stronger than ever. She told me that Michele would tell me let the pain go and put it behind me and concentrate on the positives and moving forward. Yep I know she is right. I just got to learn how to do it.
One part of my problem is that I think to much. She says I have an analytical mind and reflect on things all the time like she does but my H doesn't do that because his mind doesn't work that way.
She explained it to me by telling me about a friend of hers. This friends husband was diagnosed with a tumor that a doctor told him was unoperable and terminal. The couple searched for someone who could help them and found doctors that were able to operate and the man is fine today and back to work. So my therapist had lunch with her friend and asked her what she took away from this experience. Her friend said nothing everything is OK now. Well if it had been me I would have taken away several things, like make everyday with your family count, and never give up just because one person tells you something can't be done. My therapist and I both see all these good things that people like us would learn from having gone through such an ordeal. The therapist explained to me that everyone's mind does not work like ours and to someone like my H the crisis is just over and he doesn't reflect on it.
So Ok a key component to helping me through the healing process and us through recovery is me learning how my H's mind works so I can understand him better.
My H listened to the first tape is Keeping Love Alive but did not want to listen to anymore. He told the therapist that it just was not interesting to him because Michele gave to many examples for him. The therapist said that is OK and that I should just listen to them that they could help me. The therapist looks at me and says you know one person can save a marriage and you did it. Even listening to the tapes by myself will help me. My problem is I am thinking hey wait a minute. It feels like I went the extra mile to save this marriage and I am suppose to keep doing all the work and he doesn't have to do nothing but enjoy it. Baloney, I want more.
Just noticed what time it is getting to be and I have got to fly now to get to work on time. Will be back here when I get home.
[This message has been edited by Johnswife (edited 02-08-2000).]
It must be difficult having done such a good job salvaging your marriage and now not feeling that you can continue the process to reach a "higher" level. What has happen through this is that you have grown and become aware what's important to you. This has created expectations for your H that he does not understand and therefore cannot meet.
I think that feeling that you want more right now is a natural consequence of all the feelings that you must have suppressed and all the pain you suffered getting your marriage back together. Your H does not want to keep reliving it so he avoids the relationship stuff for now. Give this some time you have the rest of your lives together to write that romance novel.
johnswife, ONe thing you wrote hit home with me. the fact that your H told you once so he feels like he doesnt have to say it again. My w is same way, she says I already told you I did, (in regards to wanting to stay married) I wish she would keep saying the things I need to hear. why are they so afraid to repeat anything. its like okay I already said it lets move on. doug
JW, Your post really hit home for me. My H and I aren't living together yet, but only another 20 days. But what really hit home is that I also have a very analytical mind---I over analyze things-- to a fault at times. My H is very impulsive, lives in the moment. While we can be very complimentary to each other, we can also drive each other insane. And while I am getting better on focusing on the positives, it is so hard to ignore the negatives--- like taking the OW to her father's and having dinner there instead of coming over here. So how do we tone down the analysis? or at least keep it focused on the positives? My H is also the one time said, you should know type. I don't want to be the one who is putting the all into the marriage! Though he doesn't see it that way... he sees that he has given up a lot to come back home (including an OW who would be more than happy to be his maid and doting servant--- unless of course she needs him to chaufer her all over town). I don't want all the anger and frustration destroy everything that I have DBed my heart out to get. How do we stop that from happening?
I loved the part about once he says something he doesn't feel that he has to repeat it - my H exactly ..... at least when it's something that makes him uncomfortable.
However, he can say the same old boring things about basketball, football, etc. over and over.
Our therapist and my H both suggest that our H's aren't enthusiastic about these things because it makes them feel guilty, foolish, lecherous, shallow, yada, yada, yada... when anything reminds them of their affair.
Because we are feeling insecure right now, we do need more romance and reassurance than would ever be considered normal. I have readily told my H that yes, when it comes to that relationship, I am skewed way left of center now. He finally understands that I am ready to admit that I am a bit neurotic about some things and that reacting in a way that would have been characteristic of me before this experience would mean that I was either pretending or in denial. After all, you cannot shoot somebody and complain because they bleed (borrowed from someone else's post).
I believe that one of the things that attracts our Hs to us is that we are very caring feeling people. Also, it was no surprise to either my H or to me when our therapist described me as analytical. That's how I make my living and understanding people and what makes them tick is what makes me good at what I do. It also makes me love my work. Unfortunately, the characteristics that make me (and you) special, also makes me obsess about how could H have done the things he did.... It makes me so frustrated that he could share intimacies, romance, etc. with her that he can't/ doesn't with me. However well I understand in my brain that he could do this because theirs was a supernatural relationship based totally in fantasy, my heart wants some of what he gave her. She wrote one letter to him complimenting this nonverbal man on his gift for writing and saying such incredibly romantic things (that smarts).
Basically, I understand that in me my H is attracted to strength of character, intelligence, problem solving skills, practicality, motherliness, spirit of adventure, feistiness, and ultimately some physical attributes. My H once stated about me during an exercise at church that one of my best characteristics was my ability to find solutions to problems. Ow's attributes included musical talent, sweetness (perceived), prettiness, and adoration for him (certainly not in that order). She was strong in areas that come much farther down on my list of attributes, but they were what he wanted/needed at the time to make him feel better about himself.
I can get so frustrated with him for being so foolish and for putting so much at risk. Your therapist has hit our situation dead on when she speaks of your H being someone who simply doesn't think in an analytical fashion. I do agree with this assessment, but I don't think you have to be an analytical heavyweight to know that a woman who has been through what you have needs and should get some extra special TLC. I think that when you are not angry you should continue to tell your H what you need from him and to make a really big deal over those things when he does them.
I have accepted that I'll never get from my H the romance that she did. However, I know that I get a whole lot more and that, in the overall scheme of things, what he gives to me is much more important. I think that's true for you, too. One small example... both of our Hs called themselves planning to leave us at a certain time so that they could be with Ms Soulmate. However, considering how intense they thought their love was, they did precious little in furtherance of it. Perhaps my H went farther than yours in that he took a half day and rented an apartment and had utilities hooked up. He actually moved in it for a few days. Your H may have made some job changes to have more time to be with her. But, in doing so, he didn't put himself out much and was all the while enjoying instant gratification form her attention. She may even have come up with the plans. The most aggressive thing he did was telling you about it. My therapist said they tell (or allow discovery) because they want their "fix it" wives to handle this too by jerking them back into reality. I don't know that I agree, but I do take some comfort in how little they actually gave of themselves (except for what they gave so they could partake).
I'd like to read more about your H's strong points. I'll bet they far outweigh the sexual exercise that she got from him. Once, when I was feeling bitter, I made a list of all of my H's strongpoints - something I haven't posted much about. It really helped me. I was surprised to see just how long it was. I then gave it to him because I felt a little sorry for him and how his self esteem has suffered as a result of the affair.
Perhaps, if we all put our heads together we can figure out ways to get these men to be more in character from the romance novels. I was very enlightened by Dr. Harley's HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS analysis in which he says we all fall into the mistaken habit of assuming that our spouses will appreciate the same things from us that we want from them. Our Hs truly don't get what we want, they're embarrassed in the real world to give it to us, and right now they just want to run from anything that reminds them of their affair.
Wesse's post is so inspirational. i think you should give up your day job and simply counsel us ongoing...forever probably. how much i want to be where you are..with h at home and going to therapy. your h and jw's were never even out of the house. you can't imagine how it feels and for me it has been 5 months today. will i ever get used to being in our bed alone...brushing my teeth alone...and talking to myself so at least someone asks me about my day. i know he will call later...i am so afraid of what he will say and how i should respond. i promised myself NO RELATIONSHIP TALK and to be up and peppy and talk about my new long term job, LISTEN to him about his day and give him supportive strokes. if he asks about the children i will have to try and get off that topic as well.
i am looking for someone else to fix it when i know the only thing that can happen is ME fixing ME and maybe h fixing himself and then maybe WE fixing us.
i watched oprah today (actually taped it). that guy, the psychologist is going to talk every tuesday about relationships. i will play it tonight. he wrote a new book. i would love to anonymously send h the tape...but i know i am pushing too hard. sometimes i get so mad at myself i want to call ow's h and find out what he knows....but that would be foolish and intellectually i know that.
what if h calls and says he has filed....he lied about seeing a lawyer...he finally said he did. i also know he is charging lots of stuff on his visa (not ours) and i can't imagien what he is buying...when he asks about money and i ask him...he says he charges gas and that's it...sure!
i want to trust again...first i want to work on this....but he says he is not coming home and he will not work on it unless he decides to come home.
i am a loser in this game. first rate failure in the field of marriage...and tonight i feel myself slipping into the pit again.
Wesse, I think you hit the nail on the head. You are right about the insecurity, the trust, the romance, our basic natures as caretakers and strong fixers, as well as their guilt over anything that reminds them of their affair. I completely validate your frustrations. I feel the same way!
JW, I can relate to all of what you are saying. I have so much anger in me over what happened and lack of trust that I'm not sure our marriage can recover. I think you were so fortunate to have found this board when you did as you were able to avoid a lot of the mistakes that I wasn't. I really think too much hurt and time went by where he was checking out and I was grabbing at threads, too desperately. I hate that h shared any of himself with ow, that he won't or can't share with me. I hate that he was willing to destroy my family so that her kids could have a man in their lives. I hate that he resented having to come home and give her up. I hate that he still sees it as me forcing him into submission. I hate it that I cannot trust him nor respect him and he is giving me precious little to work with on restoring that. And most of all I hate it that he gave up.
We have a first counseling session in a couple weeks together. But I am going to see her separately first to discuss some of my goals and concerns. It's not just a matter of romance. It's a matter of non-commitment, and refusal to forgive on his part. It's also a matter of my needs not being met at all, and no concern on his part for them. I've lived without romance my whole marriage. Sure, I'd like it, (who wouldn't?) but I'm more a pragmatist than a romantic anyway. But I cannot live without trust, respect and commitment. That's the cake. Romance is only the icing. I need the cake. The icing is just empty calories, not substance. So, without the cake, the icing is moot. YOU have the cake. Hang on to that thought. Your counselor is right. The romance may or may not come, but you have his remorse, his regrets, his respect for trying as hard as you did, and his gratitude that you didn't give up on him. YOU HAVE THE CAKE. Be patient. You do have his love. hugs, GG
[This message has been edited by GG (edited 02-08-2000).]
[This message has been edited by GG (edited 02-08-2000).]
I would like to recommend a book to you. I know that you probably read a gazillion of them already. But this book, explains how men think differently than woman. It is by John Gray. Mars & Venus Relationships. When I read this book I could see my H exactly, in many of the situations that he describes.
I wish you well and also want to remind you that you are very lucky. Look how far you have come.
And while I am getting better on focusing on the positives, it is so hard to ignore the negatives--- like taking the OW to her father's and having dinner there instead of coming over here.