My Wife wants out..still!!

[Jeff223]

Anger is what I read. If you were not angry then you would have picked up the phone yourself and worked the schedule directly with xW. Putting a five year old in this situation was not good and is counter to ALL co-parenting guidelines you will find.

Then the second night you wrote that you "told" the kids they had the next day off - of course they jumped at the chance to stay with you - as you implied for them to do (may have been subconscious but it was implied). They do not know what is really happening. You do.

Then you lambast your xW for being angry. She had every right to be angry. She was the one you placed in the position of saying no to her daughter or giving up her time with her. But xW let it slide - she could document what I am writing now and hire a lawyer to make things "right".

The visitation schedule should have been worked out ahead of time. If you don't have in writting what 50/50 means then do it now. Playing it day to day is not fair to anyone, especially the kids. They NEED a schedule.

Your past work schedules mean nothing and does not entitle you to additional time with them now, unless that was in a signed agreement. If you should end up in court, she could use any effort on your part to keep the kids extra time against you. She can accuse you of "using" your daughter against her.

In court, 50/50 is not a given.

Build a schedule, build a parenting plan, get it in writing.

So 50/50 IS what it means? How angry is that? Whatever schedule you come up will never be in concrete unless you are totally unflexible. There will be many times in the children's lives where deviation from the schedule will be in their best interests.

At best, you will average 50/50. At the very best, you may get less than 50% but enjoy that fact b/c you did right by your kids.

At worst, you will keep score and land in the never ending custody battle with her.

[Pudmuddle]

Hi markyb

This is really getting old... My W just cannot speak to me w/o an attitude and acting as if I am the most horrible human being.

The fact that this is getting old for you tells me that you are beginning to detach. This is a good step. You are removing yourself from the situation and starting to see it for what it is, not just the emotions of the situation.

Also, the notice that she is still so angry and has an attitude with you tells me she is trying to bait you into reacting and being emotional again. This will give her more cause to push you away. I think you are doing well with being polite yet not totally cold. That is a VERY HARD thing to do. Remove the fact that she was the love of your life and your heart is broken. I know, again hard to do. But I see it as kind of starting over with a new friend, for both you and she have changed and if the relationship is to get better you need to approach it with a beginner's mind. Build the friendship again first, just as you might do with someone new.

I sense she is coming to grips with the reality she is creating for herself and that is making her feel guilty and angry. Let her soak in her own feelings this is good for her. As long as you remain positive and don't fall into the bait traps she sets, she will realize her own feelings within her own self.

Keep up the good work mark, you ARE making positive steps, as hard as that is to believe right now. I am there too, so I understand.

[dadtotwo]

Jeff223,

So let me understand your response...

I am angry

My W has a right to be angry with me because my D asked to stay w/me

I "told" my D there was no school as some subconscience way of venting my anger(fact is she said she had no school and I saw no harm in having them stay another night with me)

You refer to my W as XW(she is not)

I don't have a right to 50/50 custody because why???

I didn't realize I was lambasting my W for being angry??

You sound as if my W is IN CONTROL yet I have no control(seems a little out of balance)

Is this about being positive based on your experiences or just being critical of what I do each and every day since you INSIST I am angry??

[Heimlich]

Mark,

Please believe me in this, you sound very, very angry and focused on your W and what she's doing and very hung up on not having control over what she does.

If you're not expressing that anger to your W, great.

Having your child ask your W if she could stay with you IS putting your D in the middle. You ARE entitled to 50/50 custody, but establish the schedule and adhere to it as much as possible -- you'll need flexibility from your W for your work schedule I would imagine.

I've also always wanted to ask you this, but it never seemed appopriate and I didn't want to offend you. So, caveat, not trying to judge or anything but why are you so interested in continuing to be married to a woman who is only interested in, from my point of view, a sugar daddy?

Best,

BD

[Pudmuddle]

Interesting Heim and Jeff that you see him as so angry. I didn't get that from his post, only that he working through a tough situation and is at one point where we all have been.

It took my H awhile to see that he WAS putting our S in the middle of our convos and his R with the OW, and I had to put my foot down. Kids come first. Sometimes the WAS needs a good smack in the face to have the reality hit of what they are doing to their family. For my H, it was taking my S to the counselor so that he could hear from someone objectively on the affects on the children. And it hit him hard.

To me, it seems his W is putting the children in the middle first, not just markyb.

[dadtotwo]

Heimlich,

I can understand your question considering that our M problems were all related to money. In fairness to my W, I would not be true to her if I portrayed her as wanting a sugar daddy. That has never been her goal but just to have peace of mind that the bills were being paid, we had health insurance for our kids and could save a few bucks every month for a vacation.My W pictured her life as having 3 children, a nice place to live and not have all the stress she experienced over the last 2-3 years.

If you are able to read my original thread, you will see that this mess was mainly caused by my poor choices and trying to be the "big shot" and having my W be a SAHM while I earned. I took on a great deal of financial responsibility that I felt I could handle. When the plan wasn't working, I took the opportunity to pursue this business venture that would give us all the financial security we would ever need.

I was so determined to make it happen that I put off working full time for 2 years. With 2 small children and a house, this was foolish, but most of all, selfish!!

My W waited for me to get my act together and endured calls from bill collectors, a bankruptcy and our house going into foreclosure. By no means did she expect that her H and, father of her children, to just stop earning the way I had done before especially when I was the one to bring in the money.

I went back to work full time in June 2006 but I could was not able to get caught up and frankly I struggled under so much pressure(self induced). So after 3 years of financial stress, my W lost respect for me as a man and lost the trust for me since I was borrowing from Peter to pay Paul w/o her knowledge. I never hid anything(rarely opened up about it) but she didn't ask and admitted that she put her head in the sand.The stress and the distance between us was such that she took up an EA with OM right at the time she dropped the bomb.

I know in my heart that she truly wishes that we were not at this point. She decided that getting a D is the only solution she sees since she still says, to this day, that I cannot support our family.

So I will say, with a heavy heart, that I made very poor choices that created an avoidable financial disaster. My poor choices caused my W to lose respect for me and no longer be able to trust me. Now she wants to be responsible for her own finances as I failed to be the provider and "rock" she needs as a husband.

She has left me with our kids with no accountability for her actions(OM) or any part of reaching out to me and having us work together like we used to do years earlier. She has chosen D instead of even considering counseling or any desire to try. She has given up and no longer wants to be my partner as she has stated that she lost her partner.

So, although my posts may convey that she is only interested in money, it was the lack of it and my failure to "step up" that has us where we are today.

[dadtotwo]

I also want to add that she, as the WAS, wants to control me by forcing the D mediation. Her pushing is a form of manipulation/control that I do not have to give in to either.

This does not mean I am angry(in case anyone was thinking that)

[Just_Me]

Pudmuddle,

I want to disagree with just about everything. Sorry.

Also, the notice that she is still so angry and has an attitude with you tells me she is trying to bait you into reacting and being emotional again

No, no and no. She had the right to be angry and she isn't actually trying any baiting. Or at least that's as reasonable as assuming that she wants you to do something.

I sense she is coming to grips with the reality she is creating for herself and that is making her feel guilty and angry. Let her soak in her own feelings this is good for her. As long as you remain positive and don't fall into the bait traps she sets, she will realize her own feelings within her own self.

Gobbledy-gook. All this talk of coming to grips and feeling guilty is just something we envision to make ourselves feel better. Where have you read even a single WAS that came back saying that they felt guilty that entire time? In retrospect, yes, he/she may feel guilty if they want to come back. But when they leave, they are getting away from you and I really don't believe that guilt is a big factor.

My point is that the focus is on the WAWs actions. We can't read minds and we can't read these actions. We certainly shouldn't put some kind of positive spin on all of it. What is the point? WHAT we can control is our own behaviors and emotions. We can get to a point that WE are happy with who WE are. The WAS can take it or leave it.

[cire2]

Mark,

From experience i'll tell you using kids as a go between is wrong. That being said, I don't see anything wrong with your kids asking mom for some more time with you. Believe me, if they want more time with mom they'll not hesitate to tell you.

If she's pissed then to bad. Spend as much time with them while there young as you can. Mine were 4 and 13 now they are 14 and 23 and being with Dad isn't what it use to be.

Remember never bad mouth there mother and work together when you can. Choose appropriate battles to be fought. Sometimes you will have to take it in the .... to be the PARENT they deserve.

cire

[Pudmuddle]

No problem Just_Me. We all have our own views.

Maybe I am just not at a point where I can see this. And I have actually read that WASs are weighed down by the guilt, not that they would ever admit that...I just see anger as a negative emotion, not positive, even though yes it is ok to be angry. Their choices and realities to me hit them up by showing anger.

The positive spin is what keeps me going, when there is no way to possibly know what they are thinking or doing. Just my optimistic take I guess.

Sorry markyb, didn't mean to hijack your post.