wii, Thanks, I have accepted that this where she is right now. I've also tried to allow room for whatever grief she might feel due to this R ending.
I checked with an Att. I will call her again just to clear up a few other questions.
One completely frustrating aspect of this is W's urgency to get a job now, so she can get the D.
I guess it was too much to ask her to get a job to help with some bills, assist in buying clothes for the kids since school is starting soon, anything that would contribute to our family. Instead, the purpose of the job is to make it so she can make things harder on our family.
One completely frustrating aspect of this is W's urgency to get a job now, so she can get the D.
I guess it was too much to ask her to get a job to help with some bills, assist in buying clothes for the kids since school is starting soon, anything that would contribute to our family. Instead, the purpose of the job is to make it so she can make things harder on our family.
Ah, this is the part I had the most difficulty understanding with MY W. But I did come to understand what it was all about.
You see, she was a stay at home mom. We all know that is the best for the kids, having mom there all the time. Too many kids are 'day care' kids.
And as men, we want our kids to have the best nurturing and care possible. That comes from having a stay at home mom. You and I and everyone here knows that is true.
In the beginning we made sure that was going to work. We could carry the financial load, because we're men and generally we make more money. And it was what we really wanted to do - to have our kids be properly cared for.
Somewhere along the way, the finances changed for whatever reason and WE felt unsupported because THEY "wouldn't" get a job, or maybe they WOULD get a job but it wasn't good enough for us.
Maybe we, for whatever reasons, wouldn't force a cut back on family expenses, or decide to move to a more affordable home or city. We wanted everyone to continue to live the way they were 'used to'. Any other option would mean we were a failure.
So, maybe we pressured our W to 'get a job', but whatever jobs they COULD get weren't good enough.
In your case, you say "it was too much to ask her to get a job to help with some bills". Did you ask or did you 'hint'? Did you have a mature discussion and ask for HELP or did you demand?
If you had a mature discussion, did she say "NO way! you Should SUPPORT US!" which, by the way, I would consider very immature on her part.
Lot's of questions, so let me tell you about MY situation and what I have come to understand since then. Maybe there are some similarities. Maybe it will trigger some ideas. We're all different so I wouldn't try to say 'my way is best'. As they say 'Your mileage may vary'...
first, as men, we made an unspoken deal with our wives. they would be the stay at home mom. We would be the providers. In 'women speak' that is a sacred covenant. Think back to 'cave people'. Everyone has a role in the 'clan'. WE provide safety, support and protection. THEY provide nurturing, love and care. Most important is this: WE asked THEM to give up their individual independence, and become dependent on US.
Remember, MEN do not perceive the world the same as WOMEN do. Which also means WOMEN do not perceive the world the same as MEN do.
Later, life became difficult. When WE changed the deal and asked for help supporting the existing lifestyle after many years of stability, we broke a covenant with them. No, we didn't betray them or cheat them out of their ability to be couch potatoes. What we did was break the rules of the 'protector - provider'. We didn't ask her to move to a new cave, or eat less berries. We asked her to STOP DEPENDING ON US. Get a job.
Wow. Imagine how that would feel to someone who has given up their independence, and depended on their man to support them and their children.
My analogies may be a bit weird, but I have a very important point to get across.
As you know, my W and I were able to salvage our marriage. Part of the reason is because I learned what I was doing that was causing the problems - based on learning how a woman perceives the things I do. Conversely, once I WAS able to learn this, and once I was able to guide my W into resolving her own issues (not FIXING OUR MARRIAGE, but RESOLVING HER ISSUES. It was only by luck that by resolving her issues, it fixed our marriage. Don't EVER forget that if you read my threads) that she was able to see my point of view.
So, we talk - a lot. One of the things she has told me is that she likes to work, but she doesn't like that we DEPEND on her income. She isn't 'lazy' and she works very hard as a massage therapist.
She wants to feel safe, and that means knowing that she can depend on me to make sure that we'll always be ok.
A few days ago, my w said to me "I'm trying to help as much as I can by working, but I really want to be 'mom' and spend time with the kids."
When I looked back at the situation many months ago, I saw one really important thing. When SHE decided there was no way to salvage our marriage, she moved forward with her 'plan to get a job, not because she had 'suddenly' decided it was a good idea, but because she had decided that she could no longer be dependent on me.
So, what did _I_ do?
Well, I decided not to give her money. Instead, I facilitated her 'job situation', not by giving her money, but by doing what I already did - being the financial support.
She wanted to leave, to be on 'her own'. I didn't give her money, instead, I made sure she knew what it cost to support the kids, and I facilitated her 'independence' by backing off on child support and stuff so she could get a job, and build her own business. I set time limits , so it wasn't an 'open ended ' deal.
All that was designed to make sure she saw me as a benefactor and not someone she depended on.
She was very clear on how much worse off she would be, and it was also clear that it wasn't because of me.
So, by being her 'supportive friend' and letting her know how I would help her as best I could, without giving her money or other things, she came to see I wasn't her enemy.
It was hard, and she fell down a lot. When she did, I was compassionate, but I didn't 'fix it' for her.
What I DID do was make sure that she knew I was understanding about the 'deal' we made. and that I would do whatever needed to be done to fix that deal.
I forced a cut back on expenses, and we've even discussed the 'last resort' of downsizing our home.
The point is, she needed me to be the leader, and the rock. I stopped being that, and she got scared and ran.
When I started being that, I felt better. In my case, that got her attention and SHE felt better too. There was a lot of damage, but so far we're ok.
frank_d, Thanks for your thoughts. I will work on taking the approach you mentioned.
I have never pressured her or even talked to her about getting a job outside of our home. It was a non-issue for me. I would just work a little more or whatever and we would do okay.
It just frustrates me now in that she is looking for a job now, like right now, not to help US but to help her. She wants to be able to afford to live as a divorcee. I guess my point is, why not help out a little bit?
Maybe I'll just ask her that bluntly. Getting a job is a great idea, now you can help us pay down some of the debt that has accumulated and put something towards the kids school supplies.
tyler, in all honesty, don't bother. It's just you putting pressure on her and thinking that maybe just one more piece of info will change her mind, it won't. It's a cheeseless tunnel and will probably do the opposite of what you are hoping to achieve, it will push her further away. I know to us LBS's these kinds of articles make all the sense in the world but to the WAS, forget it. They are in a world all their own, give her space.
wii, yeah, that's what I thought. She is looking for townhomes, talking about getting her attorney rather than use a mediator and on and on.
I asked her if she had any job prospects as this will cost money. She flipped out. Said I was belittling her again, more mental and emotional abuse. Trying to scare her and make her think she can't do it.
I just walked away. How does one respond to that? Anyone else that I would ask, "how is the job search coming along?" would simply answer. Not in this situation.
I would also (and I think you figured this out), stop asking for status updates - it sucks but will only be seen as manipulation - regardless of how well intentioned it is. Read Frank's post above a couple times as I think there are good nuggets in there - much of which worked with my W as well...
I'm following along in the background..
Sven
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
However, I don't think family finances should fund her little expeditions to visit OW. How you get that right, not sure.
Take care, Tyler.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
I have to go along with whatisis on this one...at this stage of your situation that would be like rubbing her face in poop...she would not be receptive and it would be an overt attempt on your part to pull her closer which will have the opposite effect...it is one of those basic laws of building attraction even in a decent situation...
You have to walk the fine line I think in your situation right now...the fine line is walking that tightrope by being kind and compassionate yet not being a doormat or real accessible to her and around to pick up her slack like when she had car trouble and you ran out to help her...I remember when I was separated my wife called me one morning to tell me that she had a flat and my response was, "I am sorry this happened to you and wish I could do something right now but I have a meeting I have to attend this morning (or tell a little white lie if you have to) and I can give you the OnStar number"...it shows concern but it forces her to feel what it is like to have to deal with these things on her own...you can't make this easy for her and it can't be completely on her terms and timetable...this in turn helps preserve your dignity which will only serve you in a positive way down the line no matter what happens...keep on GAL as you have been...this will also serve you in the long run...you have to keep in mind this is as much about you as it is about her...
I think given some time, you wife will start to be curious about this busy man of mystery you are becoming...once you have truly worked on yourself, you will be genuine and she will see it...I believe like my wife, she has gone through alot of crap in her life which has caused her to be afraid and maybe overreact to anything you may have done...she is just seeking peace and a comfortable place to land which is what we all want in our life...once you have made your changes and they are genuine she could very well see you as the safe oasis and rock she can have a peaceful and happy life with...when you look at the situation in this way, it makes some rational sense and hopefully brings you some peace of mind...I believe deep down she wants to feel safe in giving your marriage a try again but she is afraid...it is up to you to be the strong guy who will provide that safe haven to her yet be soft and gentle with her...women are so much more adept at assessing the genuineness of one's actions that to do this in a superficial or cursory manner would be the death of your marriage...besides, you get the benefit of being a better person which is not a bad deal either...
Last but certainly not least, rely on your faith...it was the biggest source for peace of mind during my hard times...the meditative elixir of prayer and letting go for His will to be done was relaxing...it helped my self esteem too because I knew even if I somehow spent the rest of my life alone I knew I would never be alone because He and His love was with me and I did have worth..."letting go" was a biggie too for me because I had been controlling...letting Him be in control was the final frontier of me shedding that overbearing controlling way I had for nearly all my life and I have to tell you that it was so freeing and empowering that I smile even now when I think about it...I should have had more faith in Him throughout my life because religion has always been a big part of my life but better late than never and I have never looked back since...it is like I had to be brought to my knees of despair and anxiety before I made the complete and wholesale changes I should have made long ago...He humbled me completely when He allowed my marriage to be preserved and I will never take anything concerning my marriage or my faith for granted again...believe me, I am no heretic that will ever get in anyone's face about religion because I feel strongly it is an extremely personal issue but I have to say nothing cured me of my controlling ways more than my faith...lol, maybe once I knew someone competent was running things I felt I could let go!!!
God Bless you all!!
My Story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads...=5&o=31&fpart=1
