My H definately piecing but me...

[74Kim]

Hi! I am new to piecing. I was over in the infidelity forum. But I think here is more appropriate for me though. My H is doing all the right things he needs to do to piece our life together. I couldnt ask for better cooperation. But I cant seem to do my part. I have to be honest, I do not have the DB or DR books. My resources are limited and I am doing my best to learn from you guys. So I really do not know the complete steps to piece.

Right know I am trying to figure out what is the difference between forgiving and accepting?

Also, I want to know opinions on wedding rings. Do you wear them, can never wear them, never took them off, put them in a garbage disposal? To me they mean absolutly nothing and I don think I will ever wear them again. Does the feeling pass and with time I will be able to wear them or most likly not?

Thanx
Kim

[toughlover]

Until you're no longer married, the rings mean something. My wife and I still wear ours, because she is my wife and I am her husband. Her commitment at some points was meaningless, but the rings have always meant something and always will.

I'm in a similar sitch, except it was my W who had the A behind my back for 3 years and was planning on divorcing me to marry the OM. However, she chose to stay, and is similarly doing everything I could reasonably expect her to do.

My wife lacks feelings for me. I still have feelings for her, but they come and they go, they change with time.

The fact that she acted upon her feelings for someone else, and chose to act on those feelings rather than act upon her commitment to me, is the problem. IMO, anytime we choose to act upon our feelings rather than our commitments, if there is a conflict between the two, we commit a grievous error.

I believe that applies to our lack of feelings as well. I made a vow to my wife to be her husband for richer or poorer, in sickness or health, for better or for worse, til death do we part. That doesn't mean I'm supposed to simply take up space in our house and be her roomate and "co-parent" (I hate that word, anyway).

I am a Christian and believe I am obligated to forgive my wife because she asked for my forgiveness, and I am obligated to fully restore the relationship from my side, as she is obligated to from hers. So I can't treat our marriage like a second-class marriage, and I can treat her like a second-class citizen in our marriage. I have to give her my best and expect nothing in return.

That doesn't mean I can't DB, and it doesn't mean I have to be a doormat.

It means I have to love her anyway, regardless of what she does, because of who God is, not because of who she is.

The way I see it, I'm loving her out of my strength which ultimately comes from God, rather than my weakness or neediness. Even if you're not a Christian, I think DB is consistent with the idea that we must choose to become strong first, then love our wayward spouse out of that strength.

That way we know we gave it our all and we are no longer the problem. Someone on here has the tag line in their sig "If I am not the problem, I can't be the solution."

I think that's one good way to look at it. We are working to not be the problem in our M. Once we get there, that's all we can do. Maintain it and love out of our strength. It is likewise our S's obligation to not be the problem.

If they choose to be the problem, we know we've done everything we can do...and if they leave for good, then we're that much better for the next person who comes along.

This is just my opinion, of course, but I don't think removing wedding rings, withholding things, etc. does anything but hurt ourselves, does anything but continue to make us part of the problem. That doesn't mean we have to be at our spouse's beck and call, doesn't mean they get to make the decisions.

It means we must be willing and availalble to solve the problems...in ourselves first.

[believing_isaiah43]

TL, that was EXCELLENT. Good insights, thank you.

[StevieRay13]

The fact that she acted upon her feelings for someone else, and chose to act on those feelings rather than act upon her commitment to me, is the problem. IMO, anytime we choose to act upon our feelings rather than our commitments, if there is a conflict between the two, we commit a grievous error.

I'll toss out an idea and you can shoot it down if it seems lame. Just working through a thought I had, but what about your W's commitment to herself? Do you feel like she is acting on feelings just to be doing something, or do you feel that she is dong this because she is committed to making herself better/happy? She has taken the wrong choice, but when a person is unhappy and maybe even in misery is it really wrong for them to look for solutions? They need to learn and grow just like we do. Sometimes they do that without goofing up their other commitments and sometimes they don't. I guess what I'm saying is that she chose to be committed to you, but she can't give up and loose herself because of that commitment. What I feel her mistake may be is that she is trying to find herself through someone else. She has to learn that she can only find what she needs in herself. I guess sometimes they can find their way back to themselves through an OP, but to me it seems rare and presents more of a distraction rather than a solution.

I am a Christian and believe I am obligated to forgive my wife because she asked for my forgiveness ...

Would you have forgiven her even if she hadn't asked? Forgiveness is something you do for yourself. Forgiveness is what takes the bitterness form your soul. Even if you do forgive your W or any other person who has wronged you it won't help the other out until they can forgive themselves.

[toughlover]

StevieRay

I think you're right. I don't think she would see it that way. But I think we had created so many problems in our marriage and our life, and I was certainly no help to her for a while, that she just chose to escape. She insists that if she/we were in a better financial position, she would've divorced me years ago.

But she didn't, and here we are.

Yes, I forgave her before she even asked for it. But there's a difference between forgiving as we're called to forgive anyone who trespasses against us...that's for ourselves. However, in order to actually restore the relationship, the person who committed the offense is obligated to seek forgiveness, and I am required to give it.

[74Kim]

I still do not understand what complete forgiveness is. I can understand that it is our duty to forgive, but what does that entail? Maybe I have forgiven and dont really even know that I have. And how can I get my h to forgive himself. He is not ready and not even trying too. He feels he does not deserve any forgiveness from anybody.

As for wedding rings, I am not being spiteful or nasty by not wearing them.I just can not bring myself to. I dont feel comfortable with them on. I think they are a reminder to me as to how false all his promises were. They are supposed to be a sign of commitment. After an A the M you once had is gone. Its like mourning a death. The old M no longer exsists. So for me to wear those rings is a constint reminder of the past , that seemed to mean nothing.

[cat03]

complete forgiveness is to never bring it up again, to be able to calmy defeat those demons that bring memories from the affair. Maybe it was an ignorant way to do it, but I fought with EVERY memory I had about my H's affair, I confronted them and killed each one untill they no longer stabbed me the way the did. It was NOT each by any means, I hurt each time, but in the end that slime slides right off me now.

You know you have forgiven him if you dont' jab him with A related comments when mad or arguing, when you dont' hold it against him, when you accept that it is in the past and that he had (excuse me) sh*t for brains when in the A.

You can't help your H to forgive himself other than showing him (by not recalling the A) that you've forgiving him. He has to work that out by himself, time is a great healer, and if anything, when he recalls it, it will be a reminder of what NOT to do. I still think it's a lame excuse, but my H told me he didn't get rid of all the letters/picts of OW that I found (which I made him burn) because if he ever wanted to do something stupid again that woudl be a reminder.

As for rings, I also thought like you for a while, that I was wearing a symbol of something my H doens't stand for ...just yet. I took them off for a while, and my H noticed it, so it does mean something for him, so I put them back on, it's a symbol that Im a married woman and that I'm taken, that Im his and that I love him. Those rings were given to me with love, and that's the memory i attach to them.

If they bring up bad memories fo ryou, you have the right not to wear them, I think rings bring up different emotions to each of us.

[toughlover]

Kim

Hey, it's your decision and completely understandable, I was just giving it to you from my perspective. We have to do what's best for us in these sitch's.

I have almost unlimited cash in my "self-righteous" account. I even ended up with a low-level STD because of her behavior. Everything she did was selfish and rotten. And I let her have it with both barrels for the first couple of weeks...between my grief/crying, anger, and desire for revenge. And I was very close to broadcasting her behavior to everyone in her email address book (all friends and family) and paying a little visit to the OM as well. I'm glad I didn't, though.

I realized that the A wasn't the problem with our marriage going bad, it was a symptom. Yes, it's a problem now, but one that can be solved if the larger problem of our marriage can be solved.

I choose to solve my problems; it's up to her to solve hers, or suffer the consequences on her own.

So the first thing I had to do was stop being the problem. I chose to forgive (and it too is a choice we have to reaffirm everyday until it is no longer an issue); I chose to recommit my life to Christ and be the person God calls me to be, which also means being the best husband and father I can be. I was already GAL'ing and PMA'ing when this hit, so I hit the ground running, so to speak. Lost weight, cranked up my old hobbies, and a couple new ones, got myself looking good again, etc.

The way I see it, I'm the primary beneficiary of all that, because in the end loving my wife brings me joy. Even though we're not back to where we need to be yet, and it will clearly be a long road, my love and commitment gets bigger every day...but more because of who God is, not necessarily because of who my wife is.

It seems backwards, I know. I even told that to our MC: "Wait a minute...the person I loved and trusted most perpetrates the most evil on me that I've ever experienced, and I'm supposed to LOVE her in return?"

Yep. Love her with boundaries; don't be a doormat. But love unconditionally regardless.

Anger, resentment, bitterness, etc. all have to be dealt with and expressed in a reasonable way, of course. But in the end, that stuff doesn't transform lives for the better. Only unconditional love does.

In the end, I'm glad I did. As MC said, it creates the best environment for this marriage to be healed. My sons need this marriage healed. I'd prefer it be healed than any other alternative.

But I also can't help but think that by giving her more than I'm getting, I'm actually getting more than I'm giving. If that makes any sense.

So, there's joy, but right now it also brings me pain, because I get very little (relatively speaking) in return. Although I do get more than most at this stage, I don't get what I want the most: her affection, the interest she used to have in me, her heart.

If you're a Christian, there's no way you can get closer to understanding how God suffers when we turn from Him than by unconditionally loving an unfaithful spouse who still hasn't completely returned to you with his/her whole heart. It's worse, IMO, than suffering for your children, because you don't commit to them the way you do to your spouse.

In short, it breaks my heart. But that's something God can fix, and we can all live through.

[kasiopeia]

Hi Kim, I remember now you talked of moving here.The issue with your rings i think will be a personal choice.I took mine off for a couple of days,but when i was at work i felt very strange.I did not want people that i worked with to know i had problems at home.I never told anyone but my sisters,until years later of my H's A.I did not want our M to work out and then have problems with family members.In other words, them treating H different.I never told my co-workers or my H's family.He later told his parents himself.They were very shocked!Your rings symbolize love.When i wanted to remove mine i didn't feel loved.H said he always loved me,he just didn't show it.So i do understand you not wanting to wear them.
At one point in rebuilding our R ,i thought it might be good for us to renew our vows.The idea never flourished.Now, i don't feel that i need to do that.I can look back and i know that we are married and even though we had a bad spell we married for better,for worse.Through the years we have had our better and our worse and i truly hope that was the worse from now on.It will get easier in time.It does take time though.K

[74Kim]

Everybody keeps telling me it takes time. But my H is getting very impatient with me. How do you restrain yourself from asking the questions, that really do not need to be asked. I do not throw stuff in his face, but I do like to have peace of mind. I am scared to death to just let go, and believe what he tells me.Its funny I am more frightened of being lied too, than him actually having another A or picking up were he left it with her.

He told me that he refuses to live his life like this, I can understand him when he says that. But how do you withold from spying and checking up. I know I shouldnt be doing it, but its like I just have to know. I am gonna drive him right out the door and that is not what I want.

K- I know you made the comment before, somewhat like; that when you needed an answer you couldnt wait for it. How did you get past that?

TL-

that we must choose to become strong first

How do you do that? I do not know where to look for it in myself.

I know I am doing all the wrong things to fix our R, and I am just making it much harder for him.And pushing him away.

Kim