Quote: The unexpected result was that I guess I finally made her feel safe enough to actually talk to me. Once I figured out what had happened, I did manage to keep my mouth shut for the duration, only adding a "Wow, that must have hurt" or "I can only imagine what that must have felt like" here and there. It was a different experience for me but it taught me what it feels like to truly listen, something that until that point, I doubt I had really done much of in my life, at least with my W, and especially when she really needed me to the most.
Great story. That was one of the things that was hard for me to learn to - when to just listen and not fix.
It's a really good thing your W was able to open up to you about her brother. I'm not sure if it's something to do with being British (you know the who stiff upper lip, do it for mother England thing) but my H has also bottled in his feelings about his dad's death two years ago. It was then that his first A started.
I, like you, tend to try to fix things. It's our attempt to maintain some sort of order and control over our world. And, for me anyway, I'm a control freak because I have a very hard time trusting people. For you to start to change the dynamic with your W is important.
I know there has been much discussion regarding your W's drinking. My H went out drinking every night to avoid coming home and dealing with his real life where his W was depressed and his dad had recently died. Your W seems to show many of the same behaviors.
I wouldn't waste too much time worrying about her drinking. Instead I would try my best to encourage her to do things to make herself happy, to put herself first (even before your kids) without feeling guilty, to get a job if she wants one, and to spend more time with her friends. So long as she is depressed you are never going to be able to fix your M.
Frank, I agree, it's really important for me to learn to do this more. It made an immediate impact on my W and with any luck at all, it will impact our overall R.
Whatis, yea, I know. I wish I was as good a fixer as I thought I was, lol. Oh well, live and learn.
SS, I remember your H having a similar experience in terms of grief and his inability to process it. In terms of my W's holding things in, I do think it has something to do with her cultural upbringing as well as her specific family.
In terms of her drinking, I don't really spend much time worrying about it anymore. She has cut back a lot and it is painfully obvious (although not really good I guess) that her drinking is tied to her unhappiness. I even brought up the idea to her that the drinking may be a cause rather than an effect of her "bad feelings" of late. She agreed and said that's why she cut back.
As you said, I am 100% focused on encouraging her to do the things (other than OM mind you, lol) that make her happy and I truly believe that if she does more of that, the rest of this crap will sort itself out for the most part.
Not that I/we don't have a ton of work to do, but I think right now, it's clear what needs the most attention.
Oh, and in a minor bit of news (only minor because it's been planned for some time now) I booked tickets for my W and I to both go to an event I cover every year. She has never gone before and decided to go with me, leaving the kids with her parents. It's not likely to be romantic at all but it will be a chance for us to be together a lot and that's good.
Glad you did a good job listening to her emotions about her brother. I can't tell you how important it is for you to do that and not offer help, or try to fix things. When my brother was killed (I was 18 he was 16) the biggest thing that I did to deal with the grief was vent to friends. It really helped me through a very difficult time. 25 years later I still talk and think of those friends in a very special way. I think that by you doing this you are building a special bond with your wife. Keep this up and the rewards will be enormous.
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
Marcus Aurelius
Welp, stuck at work on a Sunday night and I have some pretty bigish news so I decided what better way to pass the time than with you all.
Last night my W was feeling pretty good I guess. We'd had a good weekend to that point but as usual...er...oops...backup...
I was in a "mood" for most of the day. I knew it, I hoped she didn't know it but I suspected she did. I was quiet and I managed to clean the whole house in the afternoon (rare as hell for me). She half-heatedly asked me if there was something wrong and just her asking me made me kinda snap out of it.
Then later in the night, after the kids went to bed she asked me if she had done something wrong or if I was mad at her for some reason. I said (in a moment of startling directness) "Not really, I'm just extremely sexually frustrated and it's getting to me today." She didn't really say anything, and quite unlike me, neither did I. We just resumed our conversation we were having and proceeded to have a pretty good night.
SO, back to the story...Like most Saturday nights (she's done really well at keeping the drinking to the weekends for the most part) she had a few drinks and near the end of the said (gee, where have I heard this before...) "I'm not feeling well tonight." Really, it's SO freaking obvious that she only feels poorly when she's had 1 too many, but who am I to say...er, well, I did say, but who's counting...
M: Don't you realize that it has something to do with that (pointing to the wine). You have been feeling good all day. There has been no depression, etc, and now you are depressed. W: No, not really tonight. Actually I am ok, I am just tired. It's NOT about you or us. I will get it together and be "perfect" tomorrow. M: I hate when you say things like that. It pisses me off. I am not angry at you for being upset. If anything, I am not happy that you clam up. Just talk, I'll listen. I know I USED to get pissed when you were upset and that was WRONG. I am not that guy anymore. W: Well, you used to be...(here is the out of the blue part...hold on) Oh, and about what you said earlier, about being frustrated. I am too. (she moved closer and held me) I want to be with you too. I love you (first one in, well, almost forever), I miss you. I want to be with you but, well, I don't know... M: But what? W: (crying a little) I don't know, I guess it's just getting to the point to just do it I guess.
I held her at this point and told her I loved her too. I lifted her chin up and kissed her softly (damn, I sound like some kind of cheesy romance novel). She kissed me back. When she pulled away, she looked at me and said...
W: And I will work on making THAT better too. (obviously referring to kissing, etc, ) I just want you to know I love you and I am not going anywhere for anyone. I know you worry about that. M: Yea, with good reason. W: I know, but I have a keeper in you. You are the one I can count on in my life. You're the one who was there for me when I spent the night in jail. You have stuck with me through all this and there is nobody I trust more than you. I know you will be there for me no matter what and I wish I could have been for you. M: I know you do. I know the person you are, and that was no really you. I just want to say something I said before but that may have gotten lost in a bigger convo; I would not take the last year back even if I could. I have grown so much and I feel like we will be much better off if we get past all this. I want you to know that I KNOW things were bad and needed to change. We both may have lasted through this because of the kids (something we discussed earlier) but we need to STAY together for good because of each other. W: (exuberantly) YES, we do, and we need to work on that. M: I know, and that's why I have made sure I take a hard look at myself and try to just be better. I needed to be better before I could get back looking at us. W: Well, there were two or three times I almost packed up and moved down to my parents but I didn't because of the kids. M: I'm glad you didn't. W: So as far as "that" goes (sex), it WILL be better (um, well, anything is better than nothing) soon, I promise.
As usual, that is the cliff's notes version of the convo but the gist was "I love you, I want you too but I am still feeling guilty about what happened to take the plunge."
There was actually a lot of playful banter as well, including her smiling BIG when she told me that she had a dream (one of THOSE dreams) about me the other night and really liked it.
Since that time, we have been cuddling a lot more, even kissing a little (just pecks on the lips but it's progress).
The only other thing was that we went to a spa today and finally my W got her massage I have wanted to get her for so long...and so did I! She said I should book one for me after hers and she'd watch the kids so I did. It was great.
So, things are looking up. I don't know for how long since these things build a hefty bit of pessimism into a guy, but from where I sit, it's pretty good.
Sounded like a good saturday...sometimes when I have good day like that or good convo...good interaction...it is so strange to still feel so guarded. It is like: this is nice but how long will it last. Hate that...I would have never felt like that a few months ago.
Keep working on your future...keep working on yourself...I think that is another hard thing that once things get semi normal and loving again not to fall into old patterns. I long to get to that point...
Anyway good deal...happy for you!
"Friendship is like peeing your pants: everyone can see it, but only you can feel the true warmth."
Haven't been following you sitch too much lately and am really surprised by how far along you are moving. The ILY, the touching the kissing, and now even a comment about her wanting you. Things are definitely moving in the right direction! It seems like it is only a matter of time. Patience, patience!!!
"Our life is what our thoughts make it."
Marcus Aurelius
GH, Wonderful news! Remember, you are scoring for all of us now In all seriousness though, be careful of the letdown that can follow these things. I know in my own case once you've overcome the physical intimacy boundary (or even the promise of it) I began to feel down! I felt like things should be getting better faster and they weren't (and still aren't). It can lead to high expectations that may not be realistic. That's me though, your sitch may well be on that path to Nirvana, who knows. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.
